Getting into Harvard--1908

[MommaJ]

<p>I’m reading The Patriarch, the recent biography of Joseph P. Kennedy. Had to laugh when I read this:

On June 22, he sat for the first of four days of Harvard entrance examinations. He received C’s in elementary and advanced Greek and in French, a D plus in Algebra, Ds in English, Latin, and geometry, a D minus (still passing) in history, and Fs in elementary physics and advanced Latin. Because two “advanced” examinations and one in science were required for admission–and he had failed his advanced Latin and elementary physics tests, he was admitted with “conditions,” which were removed in his freshman year when he retook and passed the exams with Ds.

</p>

[GMTplus7]

<p>The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. His son didn’t do spectacularly better…
[JFK</a> at Choate](<a href=“http://privateschool.about.com/od/profiles/a/Jfk-At-Choate.htm]JFK”>Where Did JFK Go to School?)

JFK’s Academic Record and Harvard Application
Kennedy’s academic record at Choate [Choate Rosemary Hall] was unimpressive and placed him in the third quarter of his class. As a recent article in the Huffingon Post reports, Kennedy’s application to Harvard and his transcript from Choate were less-than-spectacular. His transcript, released by the Kennedy Library, shows that JFK struggled in certain classes. He earned a mark of 62 in Physics, though Kennedy earned a respectable 85 in history.”

</p>

<p><a href=“http://privateschool.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=privateschool&cdn=education&tm=422&f=10&su=p284.13.342.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/15/jfks-harvard-application-_n_809524.html[/url]”>http://privateschool.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=privateschool&cdn=education&tm=422&f=10&su=p284.13.342.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/15/jfks-harvard-application-_n_809524.html&lt;/a&gt;

Would Kennedy have gotten into Harvard today? Well, he has some factors in his favor. For one, according to college consultant Barbara Cooper, he’s a legacy, and legacy applicants have a decided edge in the admissions process.</p>

<p>But the piece de resistance of any college application, the why-I-want-to-go-to-this-school essay, might have hurt Kennedy’s chances.</p>

<p>“The reasons that I have for wanting to go to Harvard are several,” he wrote. “I feel that Harvard can give me a better background and a better liberal education than any other university. I have always wanted to go there, as I have felt that it is not just another college, but is a university with something definite to offer. Then to[?], I would like to go to the same college as my father. To be a ‘Harvard man’ is an enviable distinction, and one that I sincerely hope I shall attain.”

</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>Which is so funny when hysterical posters today berate that “it’s not fair” that Harvard didn’t admit their 2400 child, the kid across town got in with lower SATs, etc. you really want to return to the days of the private headmaster handshake where no one was even pretending that it was about academic merit?</p>

[lefthandofdog]

<p>JFK was a transfer student to H, having started at Princeton. It’s all relative, though (and not just the part about legacies) - what was Harvard’s overall acceptance rate at the time?</p>

[GMTplus7]

<p>

what was Harvard’s overall acceptance rate at the time?

</p>

<p>For legacies named Kennedy, I think it was 100%</p>

[Marian]

<p>

what was Harvard’s overall acceptance rate at the time?</p>

<p>For legacies named Kennedy, I think it was 100%

</p>

<p>Only if they had Y chromosomes.</p>

<p>I have read that many members of the Kennedy family felt that JFK’s sister Eunice was the smartest of all of them. But her chances of getting into Harvard would have been zero.</p>

[atomom]

<p>I’m pretty sure he didn’t have any professional help on that essay ;)</p>

[TonyK]

<p>If you replace every D he got with “Dollars” you have cracked the Good Ole Boy code.</p>

[Consolation]

<p>

I have read that many members of the Kennedy family felt that JFK’s sister Eunice was the smartest of all of them. But her chances of getting into Harvard would have been zero.

</p>

<p>She should have applied to Wellesley.</p>

[mathmom]

<p>

She should have applied to Wellesley.

Well Wikipedia says she went to Manhattanville and then Stanford. So I think she did okay. :)</p>

[mstee]

<p>How times have changed! Hahaha, well at least we know that he didn’t cheat his way in.</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

On June 22, he sat for the first of four days of Harvard entrance examinations. He received C’s in elementary and advanced Greek and in French, a D plus in Algebra, Ds in English, Latin, and geometry, a D minus (still passing) in history, and Fs in elementary physics and advanced Latin. Because two “advanced” examinations and one in science were required for admission–and he had failed his advanced Latin and elementary physics tests, he was admitted with “conditions,” which were removed in his freshman year when he retook and passed the exams with Ds.

</p>

<p>Keep in mind that back in 1908, most Americans never even went to high school with many students dropping out during middle and sometimes even elementary school to start apprenticeships or various jobs. </p>

<p>That alone meant getting a C/D grades on such entrance exams was impressive…especially considering Joseph Kennedy was widely known to have been a below average student at Boston Latin School, a public exam school founded before Harvard in 1635. </p>

<p>That makes his achievement even more impressive as Boston Latin School was respected, but already considered “too middle class striver-ish” compared to the famous well-heeled NE private schools. There’s also the factor of anti-Irish prejudices which was still strong in first decades of the 20th century. </p>

<p>Moreover, Profs and teachers had far less reluctance to award Cs, Ds, or even Fs and much more reluctant to award B and A grades…which were reserved for around the top 16-25% or so of the class. </p>

<p>Here’s a purported list of grades in one of JFK’s government courses taken in 1940:</p>

<p>[JFK’s</a> Grades in Political Science ? The Monkey Cage](<a href=“http://themonkeycage.org/blog/2011/01/17/jfks_grades_in_political_scien/]JFK’s”>http://themonkeycage.org/blog/2011/01/17/jfks_grades_in_political_scien/)</p>

<p>Considering most students were getting grades in the C range, a B- is a respectable grade.</p>

[sorghum]

<p>

Considering most students were getting grades in the C range, a B- is a respectable grade.

</p>

<p>I think over-privileged dullards still get B- or C at Harvard, so maybe grade inflation is not so excessive after all.</p>

[GMTplus7]

<p>Getting into Yale in the 60’s
[Washingtonpost.com:</a> Bush: So-So Student but a Campus Mover](<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/bush072799.htm]Washingtonpost.com:”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/bush072799.htm)</p>

<p>

An Inauspicious Start at School in Andover</p>

<p>Bush [George Herbert Walker Bush] did not get off to an auspicious start when he arrived as at Phillips Academy in Andover, Mass., as a sophomore or “lower middler” in the school’s vernacular. His first English grade – for an essay on emotions – was zero.</p>

<p>Bush kept up with the work but was an average student who never made the honor roll, according to his year book.</p>

<p>In his senior year, Bush applied to only two colleges, the University of Texas and Yale.
…said Doug Hannah, a Houston friend who talked to Bush over Christmas holidays of his senior year. “My recollection was that he was shocked that he got into Yale.”</p>

<p>He entered his freshman class as a “legacy,” the son of an alumnus and the scion of a long line of Yale men, not just his father but his grandfather and uncles.

</p>

[GMTplus7]

<p>It all kinda reminds me of the refrain in Creedence Clearwater Revival’s
“Fortunate Son”</p>

<p>

It ain’t me, it ain’t me, I ain’t no senator’s son, son.
It ain’t me, it ain’t me; I ain’t no fortunate one, no,</p>

<p>It ain’t me, it ain’t me, I ain’t no millionaire’s son, no.
It ain’t me, it ain’t me; I ain’t no fortunate one, no.

</p>

[Hanna]

<p>GMTplus7, that piece refers to George W. Bush, not H.W. It would have been very strange indeed if H.W. had applied to the University of Texas.</p>

[GMTplus7]

<p>sharp eyes, Hanna! whoops, I cut-n-paste the “Herbert” in there too fast! </p>

<p>I did indeed mean the younger Bush-- my title of the post says Getting into Yale in the 60’s</p>

[argbargy]

<p>The best part is JFK gets into Harvard and then tells 'em he is going to take a year off and to keep the seat open for him.</p>

[mathmom]

<p>^I did too. Long before it was common. Their acceptance letter now suggests kids consider taking a year off as their studies have shown that students who do, do better.</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

I think over-privileged dullards still get B- or C at Harvard, so maybe grade inflation is not so excessive after all.

</p>

<p>Not everyone agreed in 2004 as seen here:</p>

<p>[Graduating</a> Seniors Rack Up Honors While They Can | News | The Harvard Crimson](<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2004/6/10/graduating-seniors-rack-up-honors-while/]Graduating”>Graduating Seniors Rack Up Honors While They Can | News | The Harvard Crimson)</p>

<p>

GMTplus7, that piece refers to George W. Bush, not H.W. It would have been very strange indeed if H.W. had applied to the University of Texas.

</p>

<p>Incidentally, W applied to UTexas’ Law school at the same time he was applying to HBS. </p>

<p>He was rejected by UTexas’ Law School and accepted to HBS…</p>