http://www.heri.ucla.edu/GradRateCalculator.php calculates that a school with frosh with characteristics like those of UCSB is expected to have 4, 5, and 6 year graduation rates of 58.8%, 77.1%, and 81.1%. UCSB’s inputs come from http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg06_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=635 (and the admissions tab), which also indicate that UCSB’s actual 4, 5, and 6 year graduation rates are 69.9%, 79.3%, and 81.0%.
@stones3 Richmond is a private school.
I’m not sure I understand your response. Why should UCSB have a lower 4 year graduation rate than similarly ranked universities? (USCB is now ranked #37 by USNWR)
Anyway, based on my first hand experience, the parents I spoke to at UCSB seemed to think that the likeliihood of having to spend 4.67 to 5.0 years at UCSB was a strong negative factor. It was for us.
just pointing to good schools in Va.
Re #42
UCSB has higher graduation rates than expected based on the characteristics of its frosh.
@londondad Hi! I had no problem graduating from UCSB in 4 years, as that was a priority. Of course there’s talk of impacted majors etc, however most of the kids that do not graduate in 4 years will be the first to admit they didn’t plan well. Among my friends, the only friend that didn’t graduate in 4 years decided to pick up a double major senior year to buy him more time in college. Of course there will be exceptions to this, and students who decide to only take 12 units per quarter to have a lighter load in an attempt to keep a higher GPA for grad applications. By and large though, for the student wanting to graduate in 4 years (like myself), this will not be an issue. There are plenty of guidance counselors within the departments for students to work with to map out their 4-year plan. Hope that helps
@BayAreaRecruiter Very helpful. Thanks
@stones3 and JMU and CNU and VCU!!
@Chardo hey, Truman State is a very underrated university as well!! One of UNCW’s peer schools
^I agree. Truman State is a terrific value instate and OOS, whereas GTech is only a good value instate (especially considering all IS students have Zell Miller) but for OOS costs you can attend a good private university and get what you pay for.Families who want to spend 55K are always welcome at any OOS school, but those looking for value won’t find it at GTech or the UCs OOS.
Georgia Tech (one of the best schools in the world) is only 41k oos, considerably less than any private school. On that supposedly respected list of best values, they have identically priced University of Delaware ranked ahead of Georgia Tech. Delaware is not a bad school, but it’s nowhere near Georgia Tech’s league. That shows me the list is basically worthless.
^ type “Gtech oos coa” and you’ll see it’s close to 48k (especially since the allowance for books is fairly low); in addition, they have very very few scholarships, making it very expensive compared to equally good univesities that either meet need or offer merit aid for the type of stats admitted students tend to have.
You are free to discount the list, and dispute individual rankings but based on what it purports to do, it makes sense.
@Chardo to each their own. I personally prefer it to the likes of USNWR (who grossly underrates UNCW, CNU etc each year), and especially to biased student review sites like Niche (which has East Carolina of all schools ahead of UNCW in North Carolina) and such.
As someone who currently pays the Georgia Tech bill, I can tell you it’s not close to 48k.
4 year graduation rates often don’t tell the whole story. If a child comes to college “college ready” (no sub 100 math or English) and doesnt’ change majors, drop classes, takes the “real full load” to graduate in 4 years (not the minimum full load for aid), doesn’t refuse to take classes at less-desirable times (8am or 2pm, for example)…and doesn’t do a co-op, there’s little reason why a student can’t graduate in 4 years.
However, many kids come to college and need sub 100 English or math classes, drop classes or refuse to register for sections that mean getting up early, or staying later, change their majors, OR don’t pay close attention to what their major/GenEd requires…and then oops, now gotta stay another year.
That’s not the schools’ fault.
I have had several nieces and nephews graduate from Calif publics…and they all did it in 4 years.
Of course, doing something positive like a co-op, which delays graduation by a year can be a very good thing.
The increasing volume of discussions relating to “value” seem to be playing out in several ways. First, viewing undergraduate school as a loss leader or stepping stone to graduate school. Not totally undervaluing a good undergraduate education, but does one really need to pay $60k+ for an elite private college if it will all come down to an advanced degree where arguably it will be harder to avoid higher tuition? Second, offsetting undergraduate costs with community college. An increasing number of parents relate biting the bumper sticker bullet, having their kids do 1-2 years of community college and then investing well in 2 upperclassmen years of elite college, with a much more mature and focused student, and a diploma from that school. Finally, a more savvy consumer that parses the various components of undergraduate education and costs. Dividing what used to simply be tuition into actual tuition, R&B, activities, insurance, travel, books, and a myriad of sub-expenses leading to the dreaded COA, can be a bit daunting if not analysed carefully. Wherever one decides to matriculate, there are good questions to be asked about cost, value and goals.
^actually, graduate degrees worth attending will pay you to attend; med schools are all good in the US and premeds feel lucky to be admitted to vn one of them (most don’t); and law schools are only worth attending if they’re Top 20 (or your flagship) and top 20 now have some fellowships or financial aid. Finally, if an adult chooses the graduate school path, then they should make the choice with their own money - work for a while and save, borrow, etc, not depend on their parents the way 18 year olds must (because there’s no job in the word a HS graduate can hold that’ll pay for 4 years of college outright, if parents don’t help).
Most of all, graduate school can never be taken for granted.
So, yes, investing in an undergraduate education makes sense.
However it needs to be a wise investment.
It doesn’t mean parents borrowing, in particular.
It doesn’t mean attending a more expensive, not better school just because it happens to be in California.
It does mean , if you have the money, that it can be worth investing in a substantially different environment and teaching quality.learning conditions, as well as career center, undergraduate experience, support, and resources, should be valued and not discounted as being “the same” everywhere. This is especially true for programs that don’t have external validation (ie. no ABET acccreditation, no NCLEX pass rates…)
CC-> elite college is NOT common. Most transfers to elite colleges are “lateral” transfers, meaning coming from top colleges with a different environment or majos. The CC-> elite school does exist, but is are, and seems generally limited to students whose family or school background didn’t encourage them to apply to elite schools in the first plac, and where the CC serves as a recruitment tool for an elite college to recruit under-represented brilliant students.
An exception to this is California, where the CC-> UC path is clear - and even there, the majority of CC students don’t make it to a UC or CSU (let alone Stanford or USC).
In NJ itself, the “elite” university there didn’t even admit transfers, at all; now it will, in an effort to diversify SES, which will benefit lower-income NJ students who’ll have met exacting standards at their CC.
It doesn’t apply to the full-pay family trying to take a shortcut.
Note that some graduate schools (outside California) and in particular elite/private PHD programs may frown on CC credits. Med schools may only accept them if one more class was taken in the subject. PHD programs would also apply that rule (if an upper-level class was subsequently taken the CC credit is treated as if it were from a 4-year = is okay if taken outside the field of intended study/resarch, ie., a physics class at a CC for a future PHD in History, or a history class taken at a CC for a future Physics PHD.)
(MONEY also uses PayScale data in our annual Best Colleges rankings, which highlight the schools with the best combination of high graduation rates, high post-graduate earnings, and low net prices.)
School
4-year graduation rate
PayScale.com 20-year ROI*
University of California-Berkeley 72% $806,000
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor 76% $667,000
University of California-San Diego 57% $643,000
Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University (Virginia Tech) 61% $633,000
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 69% $619,000
University of Virginia 87% $612,000
SUNY-Binghamton University 68% $604,000
University of Texas 52% $571,000
University of Maryland-College Park 67% $560,000
Rutgers University 59% $558,000
University of California-Los Angeles 72% $555,000
James Madison University 65% $544,000
University of Washington 61% $540,000
The College of New Jersey 73% $516,000
University of California-Davis 53% $514,000
The College of William and Mary 83% $514,000
University of Connecticut 67% $497,000
Clemson University 61% $492,000
University of California-Irvine 68% $492,000
Pennsylvania State University 66% $473,000
*This 20-year net ROI is calculated by PayScale.com by first estimating the average earnings over 20 years for graduates of each school. PayScale then subtracts out the cost of four years of study at the school for students who live on campus and receive no financial aid. Then PayScale subtracts the typical earnings over 24 years for people who did not attend college. The remainder is that college’s ROI.
Why would a PhD program would care much about the community college origins of an applicant with a bachelor’s degree from a four year school? An admissible applicant would have performed well in relevant upper level courses and undergraduate research at the four year school, so the lower level course work done at a community college would not be very relevant.
One normally does not go on to PhD study having taken only lower level courses in the relevant subject.
unfortunately , a school like TCNJ that has a top business school but also a top and well attended teaching education school will suffer in the overall ROI as the average salary of a teaching degree simply is a drag on the ROI. So its truly an example of “underated”
@londondad @BayAreaRecruiter @ucbalumnus The CoE at UCSB guarantees students will get the required classed they need to graduate in 4 years. Even at 190 units or so, the 4 year plan is well mapped out and unless the student doesn’t pass a class they should be able to graduate in 4 years. During registration pass times, they recommend choosing any electives you need to take on the first pass because they’ll guarantee your required engineering class if you’re following the plan. Will they have to take more than 15 units per quarter? Yes. Will they maybe have to take an 8AM class or night lab? Yes. At least in the CoE, the 4 year plan is doable. If you get off it though, I can see where it might set you back a year, but that’s true any place that where classes are only offered some quarters/semesters a year. With some AP credit, a freshman can come in with closer to 180 units that they actually have to take at UCSB.