@stones3 - Which is exactly why one must use (and promote) rankings very selectively. There is not a single undergraduate institution in the country that will not falter in any given rankings scenario given particular criteria. The methodology and formula of these ranking systems is so suspect! Ultimately, there is probably nothing more valuable than researching a school for oneself, visiting the school, talking to administration, professors and students, and ranking them for yourself.
The whole “NJ [or NY] publics are weak” thing is a tired argument. In my state, we have a (very expensive for IS) top 100 flagship, then a couple regionals ranked quite a bit below Rowan. No public med schools (Youve got at least 2 in NJ). NJ has it really good compared to many/most states.
I don’t personally think the NJ/NY publics are weak. I think there is a general stigma attached to ending up at a state school rather than a more ‘exotic’ school out of state. There are kids in NY who will opt for Alabama or Arizona State over Binghamton for the weather, the rah-rah, or just to get as far away from home as possible. On the whole, other than California, I can’t think of any States with the breadth of choices found in NY and NJ. On the other hand, while the CA schools have a nice representation among the top-ranked public schools, you have to go pretty far down most ranking lists to come to any SUNY or NJ State schools. For top students, I think it is more about cost than anything else. I think in most cases if the cost of top private schools in NY and NJ were commensurate with public schools costs most would choose private. I don’t care what rating scale is used, the average kid goes to Princeton over Rutgers or TCNJ. The average NY kid goes to Cornell or Colgate over Buffalo.
@usualhopeful Are you from West
Virginia?
Actually, I’d say that Virginia and North Carolina are both better than nys/nj. Ohio and Florida are pretty good for all kinds of students at a reasonable cost.
@MYOS1634 I agree, particularly with the top state schools in VA (UVA, W&M, VT; plus JMU and G. Mason). Also, Colorado and Michigan have a broad mix of strong state schools.
@londondad New Hampshire
I don’t think the UCs are worth the out-of-state fees. UCLA is a great school, but it’s not worth 50k+.
I was an NJ kid obsessed with CA schools, too. I’ll be attending college in Philly, though!
You don’t have to stay in NJ, but you do need affordable options. Cross-country flights are expensive. Look at private colleges; the Claremonts are great, if you can get in.
Don’t limit yourself to the west coast. You can always move to CA after college, which is what I’m going to do!
@usualhopeful if we really had it as good as you say we do, more of us would stay in-state each year. Rutgers and TCNJ are good and Rowan is decent, but nothing at all much to write home about after that.
@LBad96 NJ’s problem is that it has a strong public system, but about 60% of the seats it would need to accommodate it’s students.
NH has extra seats, but most people leave anyway.
I guess those are both pretty bad places to be in. NY students, on the other hand, have no reason to complain.
Yes, nice for New Yorkers to have plenty of room at the table, but then arises the question of what exactly is being served. I would venture that the large majority of people believe the UC system is way ahead of the pack. National rankings of public colleges certainly supports this belief. One has to go a long way down most of such rankings to find a SUNY school. In the mean time, Virginia has 3 schools ranked way ahead of the top SUNY, and Pennsylviania, Michigan, Texas and Indiana, each have 2 such schools.
IMHO, I also think that the dramatic increase in public school tuition for OSS is in part due to an understanding that public schools can compete with historically elite private schools. Yes, these schools need to offset subsidized tuition for in-state students, but they have also come to represents elite educations competing with private schools. UCLA, UVA and the University of Michigan are a few examples. While the top public schools are no bargain for OSS, there are schools such as OSU and UMass at Amherst that definitely make it affordable for OSS and are a far better quality education than most SUNY schools.
There are 2-4 SUNYs that are at at least the same level as UMass Amherst. I don’t know why a student whose family is not made of money would choose UMass Amherst over SUNY Stony Brook, Bing, or Geneseo, and maybe Buffalo.
I’d say Buffalo and Geneseo are on the same level as UMass Amherst.
I don’t understand the concept of spending twice the price to attend UMass Amherst over Buffalo, but that is just me.
^ agreed. That is absolutely irrational.
Probably getting of the track. Sorry I mentioned UMass. Seems to have diluted my point. Was just saying that Public Schools are competing against Private and that there are public schools that compete successfully versus other public schools. The former point is much less significant when COA is the deciding factor. However, the latter point addresses this issue by giving families comparably affordable out of state options. Not particularly vested in the relative status of UMass-Amherst versus SUNY, but would point out that the former is ranked substantially higher than Binghamton and Stonybrook on both public school and national university ranking systems. Happen to have personal experience with UMass both in visiting as well as in merit aid. The school feels a bit isolated (even though it is probably less than an hour outside of Boston), but features an impressive Honors College as well as beautiful, contemporary athletic facilities. It’s position in the 5 college interchange system also accesses classes at some of the best LACs in the country including Smith, Holyoke, and Amherst. Although she did not ultimately accept UMass, my D1 received an immediate merit aid scholarship that brought the COA at UMass down to very little above the COA (including awards) she received from the top SUNY schools.
Going into debt for any OOS school that isn’t appreciably ACADEMICALLY superior to any solid in-state option (i.e., the state flagship and many regionals) is irrational, and yet lots of kids apparently do it with their parents’ blessings.
I get that the “grass is always greener” when you live in a big northeastern state where most publics are undervalued and underappreciated, and I also think there’s value to picking up and going to another part of the country (that’s a type of “education” in and of itself), but not if you’re going to have to take on debt beyond Stafford loans to do so. (And if you’re not headed into a well-paying profession post-graduation, you may want to reconsider even the Stafford loans if you have options that don’t require them or don’t require maxing out on them.)
Be wary of those who rave about their OOS choices without disclosing how much debt they’ll be carrying after they graduate or sharing that their parents could afford to cover all their costs.
Better to save your money and relocate to that dream locale after you graduate. You’ll have a lot more choices and a lot more freedom if you’re not burdened by debt when you complete your bachelor’s.
I wanted to add that I have nothing against UMass- it’s a perfectly fine school. I just do not get this need for some to spend double the price for a similar school.
as I always suggest, visit and speak with the TCNJ faculty. Come to your own conclusions but consider ALL the available info. If anything even though it has all these national accolades in rankings , it is quite easy to see it is
underated.
I think UC Berkeley, and UCLA are probably worth their price. UC Davis and UCSD MAYBE, but UCSB, UCI are NOT worth paying full price for though when you compare them to Rutgers. I would actually recommend looking into Cog Sci at UCB. It’s a better major than psych and they have a very strong program for it there.