glassharmonica, I used to cite a statistic that represented music majors as having the highest admit rate to med school of any group, at 62%. I no longer quote this because it is too old (well, I am kinda quoting it here, but everyone please understand I no longer have the study) . Physicians assistant or accelerate nursing programs are other great ways to go post grad.
GoForth, I think most parents and students on the music forum know what you mean about that moment when you switch to total commitment to music, often in high school, which means a corresponding drop in other priorities. I have two kids in the performing arts and we were surprised in both cases at the enthusiasm for their applications to college (and conservatory) despite their dropping certain requirements to make time for their art,in later high school.
It is true, though, that some state schools or larger universities might be more rigid about requirements, so you are wise to check details at every school, as you are doing.
Nothing is written in stone in terms of the future, but if music is a real and expanding commitment, living a sane life in the last stressful year of high school is important too
Sounds like, as always, you have things well in hand, every step is well-thought out, and your son seems clear-headed as well, so I am probably preaching to the choir.
Yes. Academic admissions are rolling at UNT. Music admissions are not. You can be accepted to the school prior to the music audition process, which is one step to being accepted to the music school. If they havenât changed the Bass audition it is in 2 partsâŠa recorded audition (this is NOT a prescreen) and a live audition. My son sent in the recorded audition in early December and ended up not doing the later live audition because he was accepted Early Decision elsewhere.
I am debating (with self) - it would be possible to haul S and his bass down to UNT by appointment for a sample lesson. It would be a mighty hike with after effects of lost income and lost school days. In fact, I am switching over to another client in a few weeks, and taking off during Sâ spring break (Mar 28 - Apr 1) would be 2 weeks into my new project (uncool), but it would spare S the loss of school days. Maybe it is possible to find a way to do this. Is it worth it? I want to think it would be very valuable to get some early analysis from outside of our zone, especially âearlyâ on when correction can be applied over a longer time period before auditions. S will be there anyway in June, but as more of a group/camp experience. What to do?
When your S is at UNT in June, will this program be with the regular faculty? If yes, I think that will be sufficient for a getting-to-know-you experience, both from your S and the instructorsâ perspective. If a correction takes longer to implement than the months between June and pre-screen and/or audition, I suspect that the program was not ever going to be a match for your S. If not included in the camp experience already, perhaps S could make arrangements to have a private lesson or two when he is there in June.
Do you have the appointment set-up already, or were you hoping to schedule something? It may be that the prof isnât available on your ideal dates in any case.
Iâm not checking all your old posts, but I think I recall youâve been meeting with instructors in âyour zoneâ. If this is the case, it is unlikely that someone outside âyour current zoneâ will identify anything not already noted.
He can do lessons with the both the jazz and orchestral bass profs at the camp @GoForth. That is what my son did. You can arrange the lessons ahead of time by email.
@Momofadult - 51 weeks ago, I sent a letter to the professor at UNT and received a reply about what S might work on. I followed up to describe that S had implemented the advice and would be coming in June. I asked if an analysis could be arranged before or during the camp. The answer says that the camp is not the place for a private lesson, although some detailed notes would arise from the camp for all the participants. However, an open invitation to visit campus (by appointment) at any time was given. No appointment has been made at this time.
I think you are right about corrections that canât be captured in the months between June and auditions may just be too far out of the ballpark. Yet the camp may not offer as detailed a look as a scheduled visit. The faculty at the camp will be the actual faculty. I might suffer from a fear that instructors we have met in our zone are somehow not be representative of the world class instruction that I imagine to exist elsewhere - probably unlikely, but I feel like âdouble-checkingâ. It would just be a costly double-checking in terms of time away from the home base, given that another such costly visit to the same place is already booked.
Overall, I would like to not schedule a pre-camp visit because of the cost. But I would hate to ignore the opportunity to visit if any key revelations would have been made regarding Sâ basic direction or skill zone.
@momsings - I did not know that. Now, Sâ orchestral chops on the upright bass definitely have room to grow. He is currently working on the Eccles Sonata, if that is anything that indicates where a person is in a normal progression. He can still have bow squeaks. Interestingly, Sâ classical bass instructor was a student of the UNT classical bass instructor back when both were at Interlochen in the early 1980âs.
I know UNT is at the top of your Sâs list but has your son met Rodney Whitaker (Michigan State) or Robert Hurst (University of Michigan) yet? Honestly, youâre not going to find a better pair of jazz bass instructors than those two, even at UNT. My S has played for them both, as well as Jeremy Allen at Jacobs (IU). Great educators, all. Not trying to dissuade you from UNT at all, but if itâs feedback youâre looking for, you donât have to drive to UNT.
In case youâre not aware, Rodney Whitaker was the bassist for the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra and Wynton Marsalis for years. Toured with all the greats, taught at Juilliard. He came home to Michigan (he was born in Detroit) but you donât get much more âworld classâ than him⊠well, except maybe Robert Hurst, who also played with Lincoln Center Jazz. He was also in The Tonight Show house band. He has more than a dozen Grammy nominations/awards. Iâve heard heâs also won an Oscar though, for what, I donât know. He was also born in Detroit and eventually came home to Michigan, as well.
I would schedule sample lessons in June. And if UNT is the school at the top of your Sâs list, it will be worth being prepared even for a sample lesson. FWIW, my Sâs first sample lesson was not his best.
@GoForth after just talking to my son, the sample lessons just happened at the camp for him, so there was no pre-arranged contact or scheduling. What do I know?
Could you look into scheduling a lesson at UNT in the days just before or after the camp? That would just extend the trip you already have planned and would be more cost effective than a second trip.
I think the Michigan assessment is a great idea. It really addresses my main concern in that we somehow accidentally only visited a closed pool of instructors so far. It will give another place to possibly apply as well, subject to if it is somewhat possible to be a financial candidate overall.
Merit money for jazz is a funny thing; none of the usual rules seem to apply (for instrumental, anyway.) Small world with lots of rebels. I think itâs unpredictable enough to disregard the cost estimator tools and apply to where you want to go, understanding that there may be both surprises and disappointments. Thatâs the life of a musician, anyway.
Also, FWIW, since it seems youâre interested in the big band schools, definitely check out Thornton (USC). My son really liked the vibe. Great facilities. He especially liked Bob Mintzer. Worth looking into if your son is interested in doing any cross-over into contemporary/pop. Similar feel to Berklee but, frankly, more âgrown upâ.
Is there âpotentialâ money at USC Thorton? I know it has a nice program, and I like watching Edwin Livingston on YouTube, but I had the feeling that costs might not come down, so I thought it might be a far travel for something not meant to be financially. Otherwise, the program and the LA nearness would be excellent.
USC is very good about financial aid, and academic merit scholarships. Music merit money tends to be smaller - but the entire package usually makes USC affordable, particularly to those with demonstrated financial need.
Something mentioned in @ScreenName48105âs post struck me - that youâre focused on Big Band programs. Is that because of the experience your son has with jazz in high school, as opposed to more free form combos, or is it something he genuinely loves and wants to focus on? That would certainly be a way to sort through the various jazz programs. Also traditional versus more âfree jazz.â
@SpiritManager and @ScreenName48105 - mentioning the focus on Big Bands is a good feedback. Right now, I am doing a lot of the scouting for schools and summarizing to S. S should be a bigger part of it once junior year is over. I believe the New York scene is more about smaller combos, and New York for jazz would be spectacular - I have been scared off again by perceived prices, except possible SUNY Purchase. I have this idea that 1) the teacher should be good, 2) the peers should be helpful contacts for future work, and/or 3) the city should be a good place to make connections for work. This may explain the big-school bias that could be present in preliminary startings of The List. Are UIC and DePaul âbig bandâ schools?
In the meantime, I probably oscillate between 1) believing that S should try all the âtopâ schools and roll the dice for a huge scholarship at one of them and 2) try to find slightly-less-known but good enough schools where scholarship is more certain, such as with Templeâs auto-ACT-full-tuition. This is all part of the not knowing how S âranksâ on a national level, and not knowing the probability curve for the financial outcomes. Is a Trustee full-ride award at UMKC far more likely for S than the Stamps at UMiami, both out of reach, both in reach, worth the difference⊠you know.
I expect a lot of zig-zagging for several more months, trying to figure out, soon with Sâ greater attention, which places could be best.
My feeling is your son should apply to all the schools where he likes the program - top or not, and worry about the money in April after all the offers are in. But, yes, having a financial safety is a good thing, as well.
@SpiritManager - Apologies if I re-hash, but it would be safe to say do not apply to NYU due to the offers that wonât roll in(?), or can that not even be said? The financial safety is even a tough idea - say UNT is a financial safety (which it is), but S doesnât make the cut from an audition point of view. Maybe there should be many financial safeties(?).
You know, there are the parents who never think about money and then are shocked when they donât get lots of scholarships - I would hate to be a parent who was aware of the risks but actually performed the same actions and had the same hopes with the same disappointment - a lack of admission options. I would like to know more about your feeling, however. I can listen.
My impression is that USCâs academic merit scholarships are better (more generous and more of them) than Thorntonâs music merit scholarships. I thought it might be a good choice for your son because he sounded really strong academically.
Thornton says up front that they donât give merit for most of the popular music programs (music industry, popular music, etc.) Iâm pretty sure I read somewhere that the music scholarships top out at $10K. The jazz program is small, something like 75 students in all. Historically, there is only one day for jazz applicant auditions and itâs always the late-January date (I only know because, every year, thereâs invariably someone who backs out of the Michigan All-State jazz band because itâs the same weekend as Thorntonâs jazz auditions.)
Thorntonâs application deadline is Dec 1st, which is also the deadline for USCâs merit scholarship consideration. So, anyone applying to Thornton automatically gets considered for academic merit. My son actually got a rejection letter from USC for academic merit (which we werenât thinking heâd be considered for anyway). It said that they got 30K Dec 1st applications from which 1,200 were âacceptedâ and would continue on in the academic merit process. Weâre not expecting an answer from Thornton until end of March.
