<p>Yeah, but water is quite necessary. It’s pretty hard to sit and listen for three hours without taking at least a sip. I find it very hard to concentrate when I’m thirsty, so I bring a small bottle with me everywhere. Why do people find drinking water so disrespectful?</p>
<p>I don’t think professors should try to make classes too entertaining. The burden is on students to pay attention and absorb knowledge. The more entertaining the class, the less you learn. </p>
<p>I have always preferred lecture style classes with a small amount of discussion, maybe an occasional joke. Otherwise, I feel class time has been wasted. A group project is ok but group projects should not be the primary mode of instruction. You only learn so much from them and some members tend to loaf. However, I have had a few great experiences with group projects. </p>
<p>A few seminar style classes are ok for upperclass students. You read some articles and get together to discuss. Again, some students tend to do most of the talking. But, discussion should not generally be the primary mode of instruction. You don’t learn much new from discussions but they might help you with critical thinking. Tech and science courses don’t lend themselves well to discussion. Too much discussion is a waste of time. I didn’t pay tuition to talk to other students. I want to hear what the professor knows and what the professor thinks.</p>
<p>Students should not be given a “show” just to engage them. If you can’t pay attention, get some Ritilin. Learning is hard work.</p>
<p>Some students act like they are watching tv.</p>
<p>This is a very underrated aspect of the quality of education one can receive. Think of all of the distractions that a student will encounter in classes throughout his or her entire college career.</p>
<p>Now, try to picture the knowledge that is gained back if you eliminated all of those distractions.</p>
<p>I will say that the decorum at my school can actually be a distraction in itself, especially for freshmen here. Many students try to find loopholes in the system and try to diminish the value of having a strict classroom decorum. Many midshipmen have tried to fall asleep in class just to see if they could get away with it…not because they were tired, just to see if a strict decorum was maintained across the board. 95% of the time here, you will be called out for sleeping, not raising your hand before speaking, interrupting another student, or arriving late/leaving early.</p>
<p>Someone mentioned that a professor taking roll should never happen. Here, the professor assigns one of the students (known as the section leader) to take roll for the class. It is on that student’s honor to report whether or not everyone was present for the class. The student should notify the professor after class in person or by email if there were any absentees. This puts the onus on the students to hold each other accountable in attending class. At a military academy, the taxpayers are paying for us to learn. In this sense, mandatory class attendance should be promoted, I feel. The idea of taking roll and holding the students accountable for attendance promotes discipline and honesty within the classroom. It also creates the attitude of “we are all in this class together”, and the group discussions and projects require trust and contribution by all students.</p>
<p>I must say that the classroom decorum at the Naval Academy has greatly contributed to my educational experience and personal development. It has taught me to be respectful of others’ ideas and to become a good time manager. The classroom experience is a complete 180 of what you would expect in most high schools. Even though the curriculum is challenging, I believe students here learn better, and more efficiently than other schools because of the requirements that everyone conforms to in order to even meet the MINIMUM standard of 2.0. Not adhering to the decorum will probably result in a grade less than C in a class, even if you aced all of the tests. Respect, discipline, and professionalism factoring in (and heavily affecting grade deflation here) make this one of the better environments to learn in, but just requires you to go the extra mile to meet the minimum.</p>
<p>I doubt you will find a school where these sort of things are not happening. You left “having side conversations while the professor is lecturing” off of your list.</p>
<p>I think it’s a difference in the cultures of schools, both whether it’s private/public or small/large. I’m at Rhodes College in Memphis, a small private school set (obviously) in the South and we don’t have much trouble with classroom disruptions. If a cell phone goes off, it’s usually an accident. Sure you see some students texting but it’s not too common since it’s easy to get caught in our small classrooms. I’m from the North but it seems that the southern culture that’s prevalent among the student body makes students more respectful towards the professors.</p>
<p>That’s in contrast to my friends at larger state schools who talk about students playing games on their iPhone, talking to friends on the phone, and getting up and leaving partway through class.</p>
<p>So it seems to me that there’s more of this disruption in large, public schools.</p>
<p>“Laptop etiquette” from U Wisconsin - Madison</p>
<p>[Advice</a> for Faculty | Wireless | Network | Computing @ UW-Madison](<a href=“WiscVPN (virtual private network) - UW–Madison Information Technology”>WiscVPN (virtual private network) - UW–Madison Information Technology)</p>
<p>I almost responded to post #84 the other day. I had just gotten out of a class, about 40 students, and had to ask a group in the back to please stop incessantly talking. A student came up to me after class and apologized and said he would move away from “the group.” </p>
<p>I now also have to ask, after 20 years of teaching, that students please not regularly walk in and out of the classroom during class.</p>
<p>Times are changing. However, if we want decorum to exist in the classroom, we (meaning professors) need to require it. I think we are remiss to do otherwise. It is needed/ required in the “real” world.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Depends on your learning style, I suppose. I’ve only been in college for 6 months or so, but I have already learned much during class discussions with my fellow students. They are some of the most interesting people I’ve ever met, and their perspectives enhance my education in a way a professor’s lecture never could. For me, the most educative classes have involved discussion that included the professor but did not center around him or her, though I realize this may not be the case for everyone.</p>
<p>Academic “incivility” at Indiana University in 2000 - survey results</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.indiana.edu/~csr/Civility%20PreReport.pdf[/url]”>http://www.indiana.edu/~csr/Civility%20PreReport.pdf</a></p>
<p>I’ve actually started skipping class and coming late because of the total lack of decorum. People with cell phones going off, loudly smacking while consuming gum/food, texting yping loudly, leaving garbage everywhere, and one time a student put their feet on my desk, and then literally stuck a foot up my ass. </p>
<p>Additionally, I hate my campus and the students who trash the place. This is also one of the “most diverse” schools in the nation. Call be bigoted, but diversity sucks, especially when this diverse population is mostly American lower and lower-middle class, and largely monolithic in worldview Also, many outreach/mentoring programs for “minorities” (actually majority at my U) and LGBT. I feel like I could really use a mentor or something, but there’s nothing for me. So I end up completely isolated until I go visit my parents every now and then, or post something on a message board here or at gamefaqs.com. </p>
<p>I also notice my “upper division” courses simply rehash almost all of the material I have covered in lower division courses taught by (often equivalent) Ph.d’s at my JC, and even AP material. Why should I come to class for that? I just do all the readings and study on my own. I actually feel like I am experiencing mental atrophy at this place. Unfortunately, some Profs actually have mandatory attendance, with the consequence of failure for just a couple of unexcused absences. IMO, that just results in more idiots who don’t even want to be there coming, and ruining it for people who do want to be there. So it just might happen that a usually majority A (with a few B’s here and there) student will get an F or two for something that used to never affect grading: attendance. </p>
<p>-Hating Life, Even More Than Usual- </p>
<p>:(</p>
<p>From a recent article by a professor at JHU:</p>
<p><a href=“http://krieger.jhu.edu/bin/q/n/civil_classroom.pdf[/url]”>http://krieger.jhu.edu/bin/q/n/civil_classroom.pdf</a></p>
<p>“Whatever the explanation, I sometimes feel stung by students’ rudeness. I try
to make my classes interesting and relevant, and I care about their learning. I try to
conduct myself in a kindly but professional manner. But, more and more, I think
the student culture of incivility is a larger impediment to their success than anything
they might fail to learn about Western Civilization or whatever it is I am
teaching.
For quite some time, we have observed that the disengaged, disrespectful, and
unruly student behavior that used to be confined to secondary schools has reached
higher education. In college classrooms across the U.S., tardiness, unfamiliarity
with assigned readings, and unjustified absences are routine. So are chit-chatting,
e-mailing, and instant-messaging. In large lecture halls where
ringtones jar and jangle, students have been spotted readingnewspapers and even watching television on their portable sets. Virtually no academic
term goes by in which instructors don’t open their inboxes to find e-mail
that is inappropriately informal, unreasonably demanding, or both. After receiving
less-than-stellar grades, legions of students cry foul. The arsenal of the disgruntled
includes profanities, threats, and physical abuse. It may not be widely known, but
college teachers are bullied too.
How did we get to this? Many students are simply not prepared to engage in
serious academic work and do not know how they are expected to behave on campus.”</p>
<p>someone added the following classroom transgression:</p>
<p>side conversations between students</p>
<p>Yes, I have seen that too.</p>
<p>Other transgressions that I think are on the rise:</p>
<p>arriving at school late in the fall after first day of classes</p>
<p>making plane reservations in advance to leave school early for holidays, spring break, and summer, sometimes asking to take exams early to accommodate travel plans</p>
<p>faking illness or injury or malingering/exaggerating an illness or injury to be excused from classes or exams</p>
<p>using car trouble, bad traffic, bad weather as an excuse for being late or missing class
(off campus students)</p>
<p>scheduling meetings or interviews that conflict with class meeting time</p>
<p>not attending class and them emailing the rest of the class to ask for notes and announcements</p>
<p>faking computer problems to get an extension on a paper or project</p>
<p>article “Combatting Classroom Incivility” by authors from Clemson</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.umfk.maine.edu/pdfs/facultystaff/combatingmisconduct.pdf[/url]”>http://www.umfk.maine.edu/pdfs/facultystaff/combatingmisconduct.pdf</a></p>
<p>So, everyone, what schools are more civil? That was what the OP asked.</p>
<p>I would nominate Sewanee (The University of the South) as one of the most decorum-positive colleges in the nation. Students even have a self-enforced dress code: collared shirts for boys, skirts for girls, and graduation robes for honor students. </p>
<p>At St. John’s College (MD and NM campuses), small, intimate seminar classes are the rule, and there is no room for rudeness. Students refer to one another as Mr. and Miss rather than using first names.</p>
<p>Regarding post #6 about the movie scene, I received the following information from a movie maven mensh (thank you):</p>
<p>“I think there was a scene from a movie (don’t know which one) in which a student gave a dumb answer to a question. The professor handed the student a quarter, told him to call his mother and tell her he would be coming home soon. Something like that. I guess professors are not that strict anymore.” </p>
<p>I believe you’re referring to the famous “Professor Kingsfield” quote in the great early 70’s movie about first year law students at Harvard Law School – “The Paper Chase.” The student (“Mr. Hart”) was tired, unprepared, and a bit of a smart-aleck on that day.</p>
<p>Professor Kingsfield said this:</p>
<p>Mister Hart, here is a dime. Take it, call your mother, and tell her there is serious doubt about you ever becoming a lawyer. </p>
<p>Of course the scene then took an unusual twist as the browbeaten Hart, muscled up some courage, and took-on the feared Professor Kingsfield, earning his respect:</p>
<p>Hart: You… are a SON OF A *****, Kingsfield.
Kingsfield: Mr. Hart! That is the most intelligent thing you’ve said all day. You may take your seat.</p>
<p>Why incivility occurs, from Minnesota State Colleges website:</p>
<p><a href=“http://ctlincivility.project.mnscu.edu/[/url]”>http://ctlincivility.project.mnscu.edu/</a></p>
<p>The causes of classroom incivility include the “consumer mentality of students,” administrative and faculty fears of losing student enrollments, the legislative reach into classrooms, anti-intellectualism and attacks on academics by the media gurus, irrational student expectations of success in college, inaccurate assessment of students’ knowledge base, “helicopter” parents, more students with psychological problems, and a host of other starting points. All combine to make classroom incivility a significant and difficult fact of life for college teachers and students.</p>
<p>Many faculty feel incidents of student incivility are increasing. Many theories have been advanced for this perceived ‘trend’. Some cite the anonymity of large classes and large universities, which may lead to students not viewing their professors and classmates as real people. Others cite the different expectations of so-called millennial students. Millenials have more of a tendency to see themselves as consumers of education; at the same time, many feel under enormous pressure to succeed. This may make them more demanding than previous generations of students. And millennial students really do multi-task, so they probably see reading email during class as an efficient use of time.</p>
<p>In response to all the posters concerned about students checking email, texting, not paying attention, drinking water, skipping class, etc. - who cares? I see all these behaviors in nearly all of my classes, but it doesn’t concern me at all. I am not in college to babysit my classmates or pass judgment on the ways in which they spend their time. If they want to waste class time, that’s their prerogative. I am concerned about my own education.</p>
<p>What I do have a problem with is students disrupting others’ learning. Students who are talking to their friends or creating a disturbance are affecting the way others spend their class time by distracting from what the professor is saying. However, at least at my University, students engaging in truly disruptive behaviors are very few and far between. I rarely see a student blatantly ruining a lecture for others. Such a student would be almost immediately shamed into silence by the other students (or, in some cases, the professor). However, if the mere sight of a Nalgene or a laptop screen on Facebook is enough to cause you to lose all focus, you have bigger issues to deal with.</p>
<p>If a student truly does not want to pay attention in lecture, yet performs well on exams and papers, more power to him. If a student does not pay attention nor perform well, that is his own problem. While there is often a correlation between class attendance/participation and performance, this is not always the case. I personally know a number of students who attend few to no lectures because they learn the material well on their own and do not need the extra reinforcement of lecture.** In the end, the whole point of college is to emerge having learned the material. How you get there is your own concern.</p>
<p>Seminars are a different story. In a seminar class, where grade is truly tied to class participation, students are foolish to waste time they could be using to impress their professors. If every single student in a seminar refuses to do the reading or participate in discussion, they should all receive failing grades. Professors who coddle students and try to entice them into participating are the problem, not the solution. Class is not entertainment, it is a job.</p>
<p>And while I’m on the topic of work - the posters who lament the “good old days” when students never ate, drank or failed to pay attention in class are, in my opinion, making a childish argument. Just because that’s the way things used to be doesn’t mean that that is the best or most correct way. I have had days where I have had back-to-back classes from 9-6, with only 10-minute breaks to move between buildings. I don’t know of any jobs that require you to work continuously from 9-6 without a break to use the bathroom, get a drink of water or eat lunch. No, the 10 minutes between classes are not enough time to do those things - I’m crossing campus to get to my next class, often with less than a minute to spare. I have no problem at all with students eating, drinking or getting up to use the bathroom during class - as long as, again, they are not creating a major disturbance.</p>
<p>All the posters chiding “kids these days” need to relax. The grades of the students who fail to perform well because of their own laziness are not anyone else’s concern - except, perhaps, their parents’. Worry about your own life. If you spend your time getting outraged about people doing the bare minimum, you’re in for a long, frustrating ride.</p>
<p>**I think these students are what truly get people irritated, perhaps out of jealousy. I will freely admit that I am not one of those people who is intelligent enough to skip lecture and still earn A grades on all my exams, but those students certainly do exist. Wouldn’t it be nice to be one of them!</p>
<p>bluejay10-
We should all be concerned about the decline in decorum. It is disturbing that so many students reach college without learning a proper code of conduct. It reflects failures earlier in the educational system and failures in the family. These students are hurting themselves but they also hurt all of us because they are learning less, growing less, setting bad examples for others. Don’t you want the world to be a better place for our children and future generations? Instead, we seem to be in a state of decay. We should all be concerned about this. The closer we all come to reaching our potentials, the better off we all are. “A mind is a terrible thing to waste.”</p>
<p>I agree with bluejay10.</p>
<p>This decorum feels draconian to me. I see myself as a serious student, but I also see myself as an adult. In the classroom, I do feel some sort of “entitlement.” I paid for this, I ought to be able to do whatever I want (so long as it doesn’t disturb others). An occasional text or reading a magazine isn’t distracting at all, and if it’s really harmful to myself, than let me feel the consequences (as far as I know, I’d say I’m doing fine).</p>
<p>I was never the kind of student that liked taking notes. Unless it was math, I never looked back at them and it only hindered me from listening to the lecture. In fact, I probably belong to the group of students bluejay listed with a **. If someone was trying to look for decorum in a classroom, they’d probably point at me and cite some sort of moral decline. No, that’s not the case at all. If I’m spending time in lecture reading a magazine, chances are I wasn’t going to pay attention anyway. If I see the lecture as useful then I will pay more attention. If the professor is the type to ban all sorts of distractions in the classroom (I’ve never seen this), then I’d probably just sit around blankly and bitterly, as unproductive as ever.</p>
<p>It always really bothers me when professors try to hinder us by banning laptops, taking away cell phones, etc. We’re not children; we know what we’re doing. Those people who truly have some sort of issue will feel the consequences, but as for the rest of us, you’re just punishing us for doing things that truly are not harmful to us.</p>
<p>And no, this isn’t some sort of problem with the new generation. The inability to “behave properly” in class has always been around. Of course, so has the generational argument itself.</p>
<p>Kids!</p>
<p>I don’t know what’s wrong with these kids today!</p>
<p>Kids!</p>
<p>Who can understand anything they say?</p>
<p>.
.
.</p>
<p>Why can’t they be like we were,</p>
<p>Perfect in every way?</p>
<p>What’s the matter with kids today?</p>
<p>(Bye Bye Birdie, 1963 play)</p>