Good colleges for double-majoring in music and languages/linguistics.

College Majors Music Majors
1

<p>After talking to people here in different threads about my D’s college/musical options I decided to start this one to find out better what’s available for people like her.</p>

<p>She is strong and interested in academics, so far maintained straight A’s in all academic subjects (the only B’s are PE ones ;-)), taking all humanely possible honors and AP’s at her highly competitive public high school; her SAT scores, most likely (hopefully ;-)) will be all somewhere in 700+ range (for each subject/section).</p>

<p>She is good at math and sciences but considers herself more like “humanities person”; she is especially interested in studying languages: she is already more or less fluent in French and Russian (and wants to continue study literature, culture and advanced grammar in college); wants to learn Spanish and Italian, maybe Latin (thinks, it would be easy for her with the background she already has), and maybe, some of more “exotic” languages … the ultimate goal is “as many as possible” ;-). Since she has mostly analitical mind, she is also interested in linguistics. Mostly, she is still undecided about her exact academic or career goals.</p>

<p>On the other hand, she plays piano for 12 years, violin for 10 years and loves it. She wants to continue it in college (especially piano … with the violin, maybe, used for ensemble and orchestra), too - but she has no idea how far in that she can go, is she good enough for music career and what kind of career could it be. (We never thought about it seriously until we started - since her middle-school age - to get asked everywhere she played something and exposed somehow her love of music: “but, surely, she will do it professionally?”). She is especially interested in music theory (took AP class with the very tough teacher in it last year, absolutely loved it and can’t wait to study more of it in college, getting to as advanced levels as possible); but she is not much of a composer, so we have no idea what she would do with the music theory by itself. Oh, and she is a passionate choir singer, too (has had it as elective - at the most advanced level available - through all her middle and high school years (this year she has 2 of them - small advanced jazz vocal group and big concert choir); went to sing in all regional and All-State Choirs every year; succeeded in many roles - section leader, accompanist, temporary conductor …)</p>

<p>She is also a somewhat shy nerd, so she preffers to avoid “party schools” … on the opposite, after reading some college-guide books and visiting some colleges during family vacations, she fell in love with UofChicago, which is not particularly known with anything musical (except, maybe music theory). And, in general, so far, her list of colleges for the further consideration extends from conservatory-affiliated ones (like JHU/Peabody, Oberlin, URochester/Eastman, CMU etc.) through generally “top colleges and universities” of Ivy and near-Ivy caliber, which she likes for something different than music, but wonders “how good are they at music?”</p>

<p>And she needs some safeties, too - which, most probably, would be UCs, which are becoming more and more competitive, so we have no idea which ones will be the TRUE safeties, after all. So, maybe, we need to look at some decent private colleges with strong music and languages/linguistic departments with the good chance of getting in and good merit money.</p>

<p>Suggestions where to look for all of the above would be greatly apprecciated. ;-)</p>

2

<p>Don’t have any answers for you, but our Ds share some similarities. My Jr. D is solid academically (4.0 unweighted GPA), strong CR and W SATs (780/770) but Math (620) needs some work (just got results from Jan test). Not as many languages as your D, but mine adores French and is thriving in a challenging AP French course. Serious violinist (11 years), strongly leaning to music performance but reluctant to give up her academic interests (history, English, especially Shakespeare…) Also has fallen in love (at least on paper, we haven’t visited yet) with the University of Chicago. </p>

<p>She’s decided that she does NOT want a conservatory environment (too one-dimensional) but is looking at universities with strong music schools/programs and supportive of double majors and/or double degrees (some look doable on paper, but not so achievable in practice). She won’t consider strong music programs in schools with mediocre academics. But she MIGHT consider fabulous academics if the music options (at the school or independently) can serve her needs. And let’s not forget, for performance majors, it’s all about the teacher! Who shes want to study with, if she has a hope of getting into that teacher’s studio… Oh, and it must be: urban, diverse, and medium to large in student population, with hopefully good merit opportunities.</p>

<p>Sounds daunting but actually she’s slowly putting together a preliminary list that is starting to make sense-- for her (wouldn’t necessarily be right for others): McGill, Boston University, Northwestern, Temple, U-Chicago, Tufts, U-Rochester/Eastman…She’s not Ivy-focused at all (her older sister, completing a PhD at Yale, is incredibly frustrated about this LOL). And as you note with your D, the “safety” side of the list needs more work…And we’re in NY with public options nowhere in the same league as what you have in California…</p>

<p>Okay, so sorry, no advice, but I certainly sympathize!</p>

3

<p>Check out Barnard–I believe there are possible joint programs with Julliard or Manhattan School of Music.</p>

4

<p>Sound like U of C is a perfect match for her. She can continue with her interest in music -see following
<a href=“http://music.uchicago.edu/index.phtml?page_id=20[/url]”>http://music.uchicago.edu/index.phtml?page_id=20&lt;/a&gt;
and their language program is top notch. But it is a hard college to do a double major in- a major and a minor is music is much, more managable , because the first 2 years there are pretty much devoted to the “core” which all students must take, regardlesss of their potential majors. If she “loves to learn” then U of C should be very high on her list.[
By the way, S, who is at USC, is applying to transfer to U of C, as it would be a better “fit” for him.</p>

5

<p>I’d suggest Lawrence University in Wisconsin. They have a conservatory and a fine liberal arts school, and they really encourage double degrees. I visited, and it is a wonderful place. They don’t offer much Italian, but they have good programs for some other languages. It could be a good safety.</p>

6

<p>Regarding Ivies with good music programs: She would have wonderful music opportunities at Princeton, and good langauges as well.The same is true for Yale. She should contact the conductors at those schools and arrange to play for them if possible (better than just sending a tape) good luck. NYU is another possibility. Good music, LOTS of languages.</p>

7

<p>Tufts – languages here are incredible; there’s also a lot of money going into the music dept (everything is state-of-the-art). If she wants a conservatory-style musical education, there is also a five-year BA/BMus program if your daughter can get into the Tufts-NEC (New England Conservatory) program. Also, one of the biggest extracurriculars on campus are the acappella, chorales, and chamber singer groups.</p>

<p>Also consider URochester, Oberlin, JHU.</p>

8

<p>Excellent things are going on in linguistics at MIT, Northwestern, Berkeley, Boston University, UChicago, Harvard, Berkeley, and Indiana University, among others.
For someone who does not want to get a B.Mus., I would not recommend Indiana, Northwestern, or Boston, as those music schools are strongly towards the performance majors.
There’s actually a lot going on musically at MIT, and as a “humanities person” your daughter might actually be a standout applicant…
Among the Ivies, Yale, Columbia and Harvard have superb musical offerings, Yale being the best of the three (the Yale Sympony is as good as the orchestras at many conservatories).</p>

9

<p>I had seen some threads here on CC about all musical opportunities at Yale open mostly to graduate students and restricted for undregrads. There is that joint BA/MM program, but how selective is it? What level of abilities one should have to get into it? And are there any opportunities for undergrads (other then BA/MM program) to have access to musical profs?</p>

<p>As to MIT, that’s another (as well as UofChicago) my D’s “irrational love” (based on what she heard/read about it and it’s local presentation she attended); she is certain she won’t get in, she has no idea how she will (IF she gets in) manage to fulfil all those math and science requirements AND find the time for everything she really loves to study (music, languages … for some she probably would need to cross-register to Harvard) … but she thinks, socially that “fun, nerdy place” would be great for her!</p>

<p>That is, she is equally interested in learning of as many various and exciting things as possible in the most rigorous, intellectual, learning-loving environment as she is worried about do-ability of all that without undermining her health and sanity. Therefore, in her choice of the top schools she is torn apart between academically vigorous places like MIT or UChicago, musically vigorous places like Peabody/JHU, Eastman/Rochester etc. … and “relaxed” places like Brown University with it’s free curriculum (btw, what’s known about music dept. there? ;-)).</p>

10

<p>hey! im majoring in both music and linguistics (getting a Bmus and a BA) @ McGill- pretty awesome combination considering that both programs are tops. linguistics at mcgill is one of north americas best programs, everyone on the faculty is a pretty big deal!</p>

11

<p>How is the student life at McGill? Is it a friendly environment? Do students get any personal attention? I asked once my D if she’d like to consider Canadian colleges, and she got somewhat nervous about an idea to go live anywhere abroad for 4 years (she wouldn’t mind, though, to go and study abroad - in Europe - for a few month or a year during her college time). </p>

<p>Is there actually a big difference in college system and environment between Canada and USA (they are all foreign for me ;-))?</p>

12

<p>nycm,</p>

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<p>From what I’ve heard, Princeton does not allow double majors. Instead, it has, additional to the single major “certificate” programs, including music performance and linguistics. I wonder, do those certificates make any sense, have any weight (for further career, grad schools, etc.)?</p>

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<p>When, supposedly, would be a good time for that? If we make it to East Coast to visit schools, most probably, it would be this spring (of the junior year) or summer. It’s not likely that we’ll manage to go visiting in the fall. Will anybody be interested to “audition” some junior, more than half-a-year before application time?</p>

13

<p>myau: On this and other recent threads, you have already heard about many of the most likely good choices. My D was interested in the sciences, but even so some of her choices might fit your D:</p>

<p>Cornell & Yale - neither made sense, but the kid just had to try for an Ivy
State U - The studio head for her instrument is superb, but after a lot of
attempts, the administration would not allow an undergrad in the studio
Ithaca College - safety. The music dept is decent, but the academics are
modest
NYU - this was a safety for my D. Her teacher and the dean recruited her
and even offered decent money. She did not like the non-campus
environment and felt the music was thin.
Eastman/UR - She was somewhat concerned about the music intensity since
she knew 2 students who had left for that reason. She was sick for her
audition and ended up on the WL.
BU - She heard this was a good “safety.” That was incorrect. It appears
they did not have an opening for her instrument.
Vassar - This was a poor fit but she liked the vegan dorm and the music
castle is very impressive. We had a long, personal tour by the music
dean.
Northwestern - Withdrew app after being warned about a scandal involving
the studio head.
Peabody/JHU - This was a great choice, but an academic super reach due
to my D’s fairly low SATs.
Oberlin - She applied, but would not visit due to reputation and location.
She did a remote audition, which was worth it for experience. This was
her first attempt at an audition.</p>

<p>She removed several schools from consideration:
Bard - Weak in the sciences, too liberal, too isolated, too many drugs.
Rice - No way would she consider going to school in Texas
Carnegie Mellon - She would not consider this school because a rival applied
and ended up attending.
Illinois - Another State U, too far away and in the midWest
Juilliard - Did not like the Juilliard attitude, lack of academics and too much
of a reach to bother.
MSM/Barnard - She would have been limited to one academic course/semester
to start after the first year.
Tufts/NEC - She considered applying but got negative feedback from her
music friends and teacher. We never heard the details.</p>

<p>As you can imagine, this whole process took a lot a time and energy. I think she could have done a lot better in developing her list. Starting early is a good idea. Ideally, we should have toured several more schools. If possible, I would have included CIM/CWRU, Oberlin, Illinois, and Rice.</p>

14

<p>Thank you, edad, for sharing that information. It IS helpful. Many of your D’s criteria apply to my D, too. :wink: (No isolated small schools, no drugs, … as well as no Julliard and its likes and no Texas, unfortunately).</p>

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<p>How, to be more presize, did she feel it? What were the signs of that music “thinness” at NYU? So far, we have no idea how to recognize the quality of music departments (other than asking around ;-)).</p>

15

<p>The many threads on Yale indicate that there are ample opportunities for amateur playing of high quality for undergraduates but that it is highly unusual to study with the Yale School of Music Faculty at least for the first two years; the BA/MM program would seem difficult to pull off, as it doesn’t even begin until the junior year. There is also a problem with practice rooms, according to the Yale student newspaper. Here is an excerpt:</p>

<p>Practice rooms in short supply
By Caitlin Roman
Contributing Reporter</p>

<p>A Trumbull student practices piano in one of the coveted practice rooms. Many students complain about both the low quality and the lack of these rooms.
In search of a place to practice the piano, Madeline Blount '08 visits the Davenport common room, the Pierson common room and then the Branford basement, hoping to find an instrument that is both unoccupied and unlocked.</p>

<p>“I feel like I have to go piano-hunting,” she said.</p>

<p>Blount is not alone in her time-consuming search, as many of Yale’s student musicians - especially pianists - struggle with a lack of practice space. Administrators said they are attempting to allay the problem with an upcoming renovation of Hendrie Hall, but frustrated undergraduates said the crowding in Sprague Hall, the deterioration of pianos in Hendrie and the inaccessible or ill-equipped residential college music facilities can make practicing their instruments a stressful proposition.</p>

<p>Part of the problem, students said, is the preference given to graduate students at the School of Music over undergraduates with regard to practice space.</p>

16

<p>Harvard also has great amateur music opportunities; there are orchestras, choruses and there is an active piano society. It also has a great music department, but it is strictly academic. Performance is extracurricular. There is the new program with NEC, but it is very selective (e.g., no pianos this year) and costs an additional $6,000, for lessons. You are not part of NEC for the first several years, so it is far different than a “double degree” type program at Oberlin, for example.
And there is a shortage of practice rooms. This from their website:</p>

<p>"There are twenty practice rooms in the music building; ten have grand pianos and ten have uprights. Anyone with a Harvard I.D. may use the practice rooms: students, faculty, alumni, staff, and extension school students. If you have a Special Borrowers card, you may use them daily from 8:15 am to 12:00 pm Monday through Friday.</p>

<p>Practice rooms are available on a first come, first served basis. There is a two-hour limit.</p>

<p>To use a practice room you go to the front office at the Music Building (Reception area) and sign the log book. Practice room keys hang on a wooden stand nearby. Leave your ID and take a key. When the offices of the Music Department are closed, the keys will either be at a security desk near the front door or in the Music Library (next door to the reception area).</p>

<p>Professional lessons are not allowed in the practice rooms. Neither are amplified music and percussion instruments.</p>

<p>Practice Room Hours</p>

<p>During the regular school year (including Reading and Exam periods) practice rooms are open:</p>

<p>Monday - Thursday: 8:30 am to 11:30 pm
Friday: 8:30 am to 4:15 pm
Saturday: 9:00 am to 4:30 pm
Sunday: 9:00 am to 9:30 pm</p>

17

<p>My D spent a week or two in a summer workshop at NYU. Many of the workshop students were music majors at NYU. Also she had an honest assessment of what to expect from her teacher, who was on the NYU faculty.</p>

<p>We may all complain about the USNWR college rankings, but at least the rankings serve as a rough guide. There is nothing to rank the conservatories and college music departments. Reputation, gossip, and comparing notes on a forum like this can help. There is nothing as helpful as a visit. Listing to some students play, a rehearsal or a performance can be really helpful.</p>

18

<p>I agree, especially with new music programs, like Colburn and Bard. A visit to the latter was eye-opening – nice brochures can be misleading.</p>

19

<p>The certificates at Princeton are highly regarded. I think they are viewed as more intense than “minors” and more than equal to “double majors” at other schools. Not knowing your daughter’s level of playing, I can’t say whether there would be a big difference between meeting the conductors in the spring as opposed to the fall. If you cannot go in the fall, and her playing is already at a high level, I see no reason not to try contacting them for a spring “playing interview”.
As for Yale, keep in mind that the Yale School fo Music is a graduate school, and so there are no provisions for undergraduates. Those undergraduates who hope to pursue the 5 year BA/MM program apply at the end of junior year and so the senior year of Yale college overlaps with the first year of Yale School of Music Masters program. Whether this will be a satisfactory arrangement for your daughter will probably depend on many variables, not the least of which is the availability of a teacher to provide private lessons. We learned that most (if not all) of the Music School faculty are on campus only one or two days a week, so many will not have time to teach undergrads, although some do.</p>

20

<p>The music certificate program at Princeton is one of many certificate programs there – lots of the students do them, and they are what Princeton offers in the way of a “minor.” There is a good orchestra, and amateur music activity (ensembles). The piano teachers are all adjunct, that means they are not on the Princeton faculty and do not interact with the music faculty, which, like Harvard’s, is strictly academic (as a sidenote, 2 of their top professors recently went to Harvard, so they are in a transitional period). The piano faculty, interestly, consists of lots of former students of Gil Kalish, of Stonybrook. Princeton, unlike Harvard, and like Columbia, pays for the lessons, which is a great savings. Princeton is a very demanding school – grade deflation, junior and senior thesis requirements. The certificate program does not begin until junior year, though the lessons and orchestra participation can begin in freshman year. Not loads of practice rooms, but Princeton facilities will greatly improve in the coming years due to a big donation for an arts center.</p>