Interesting article by Mitch Daniels, president of Purdue, about grade inflation, lawnmower parenting, the test optional trend, and grit:
I read through, and can find a reason to like the twist on ‘GPA,’ but found the writer’s tone to taint and sour some of the points he sought to make, and areas of concern which to which he sought to draw the reader’s attention.
Felt much like a piece written to incite letters to the editor.
Mitch Daniels commissioned a study a few years ago to make sure Purdue wasn’t “falling into the trap” of grade inflation when the average first year GPA started creeping up. The study showed that GPA rise was a function of admitting stronger students, not grade inflation, but this is definitely something he feels strongly about. He even talked about it with freshman during their orientation invocation as well.
I don’t think GPA reflects grit, even when the A’s are well-founded. Elite schools do indeed favor “character” which is hard to evaluate, but is separate from grades. Facing challenges is the most common way to show “grit”: family issues, health problems, barriers due to income, that kind of thing. The applicant needs to have achieved despite those challenges of course.
The trend toward “test-optional” for many schools, including some top ones, means admissions needs to really get to know applicants and not just rely on numbers. Seems like a good thing. (Of course, for merit scholarships, a kid needs to do well on those tests afterall).
You make a good point @compmom about test optional schools needing to get to know their applicants. Curious if those schools still do admissions interviews.
Hard to imagine how well the average underpaid overwhelmed admission officer with 5 minutes to review an application and dozens to complete each day can really try to know an applicant
The funny thing is they have so many qualified applicants, but in a race to show how selective they are, they seek to get more young people to apply. Oddly makes it harder to get to know the applicants… seems like a better model would be to spend more time sifting through your abundance or riches as an AO rather than just making your job harder at these top schools…
Somewhat cynical, but aside from the students who have built relationships with their AOs, I generally agree!
Perhaps the students whose apps are discussed by AOs as a group also become more ‘known’, but at many schools those who are discussed by the group are on the bubble. or ones where two readers recommended different outcomes. Kind of ironic.
By “getting to know” I was thinking of schools that do not rely on stats but they may very well rely on essays, letters of recommendation, guidance counselor notes, info on EC’s, and sometimes interviews. As well as work produced that is presented in supplements or cited in supplementary or regular essays (arts, technology,service, for instance).
Simple information such as overcoming an illness, or taking care of a disabled sibling are obvious examples of what can come up, but so can characteristics such as sensitivity, insightfulness and kindness.
I think this is hard of course for large state schools, many of which are excellent, but have to rely more on stats. They are not on the Fairtest list of test-optional schools. (Their page is down, maybe they are updating it for 2019.)
I don’t agree that the article was written to incite a flow of letters to the editor - it represents Mitch Daniel’s view of education and the end goal of educational institutions, which is to foster real life success for students of potential. Purdue is pretty hands-on with that approach - they don’t happy grade but they do take student success seriously. They’ve pioneered a lot of interesting programs, including one that tries to ensure that each student finds a mentor and another that uses data analyses on admissions data vs freshman response to assigned coursework to highlight which new students are at risk of failure so they can get more personal contact from a professor. A lot of what they do is based on research for “what works” for students. I think Daniels is truly interested in maximizing the efficiency of his university. I don’t agree with everything he does or says but I think he states his case clearly - he thinks universities should work for any students who have potential for success and are willing to put the work in to succeed and those are the students he most wants to admit.
I think GPA is a hard measure to use because of the common reasons cited - grade inflation, varying standards. But also, in the age of accommodations, it’s hard to tell who is coming through having done the work independently (nt to mention parents doing their kids’ work!). Some districts around here are over 50% IEP. Some schools do a great job of providing tools for the student to utilize independently instead of a quick fix that is highly dependent on adult help/accommodation but I have seen crazy situations of kids getting into highly competitive schools with very serious learning disabilities. Unless a student discloses, a college won’t necessarily be able to tell that everything they had to write in HS was the result of heavy, heavy tutoring and dictated or that they had a reader for their books because their own reading fluency was too poor. Those are extreme examples but a friend who teaches HS tells me she is not allowed to not give good grades. The students have to have as many chances to “make things up” as possible with test redo’s and extra credit. She is in a wealthy, Blue Ribbon district and her number one complaint is lack of rigor - it’s forbidden. I had close contact with a guy at a selective technology school recently who could not read forms or craft a simple email. He was functionally illiterate. He must have been shooed along somehow. I have no idea how he got through HS let alone how he will get through a selective college.
“Hard to imagine how well the average underpaid overwhelmed admission officer with 5 minutes to review an application and dozens to complete each day can really try to know an applicant”
I think that a handful of applications on the margins get most of the time and thought. Maybe this isn’t true at Princeton, but at Purdue, a lot of outcomes are pretty predictable. The hard cases are the valedictorian with lower scores, the valiant poor kid with OK grades in a tough family situation, etc. They spend a lot more than 5 minutes on those.
CCtoAlaska you probably know that your post may offend someone. I do suggest you read up on the concept of a level playing field for those with disabilities. And fyi most college kids, even those with severe challenges, tend to resist accommodations and have to be convinced.
I have a kid with an LD and I am not at all offended by what CCtoAlaska is saying and I actually agree with the point of his/her post which is that GPA is sometimes more a function of parental involvement than student achievement. That’s not a slam to folks needing accommodations, it’s a commentary on how far many advantaged parents will go to ensure their child makes good grades and scores. We all know the “mom who wrote her sons essays” or the teacher who got slammed by parents because she gave an “A student” a well-deserved “B”. The reality is that many high schools are under huge pressure from parents who expect and demand that their kids “do well” at any cost. Sometimes that results in transcripts that objectively don’t match a student’s educational achievement.
I definitely did not mean to slam kids needing accommodations but rather the system of offering quick fix band aids en masse and ignoring the long term need of the student to develop a toolbox for managing their learning and the need for the school to be reflective about how its practices inhibit student learning - both for mainstream and LD students. If 50% of the kids in a school district have to have IEPs to get through the day or get any individual attention, there is probably something wrong with how the school day is structured. The examples I was talking about were extreme examples (special ed for 4 years and accepted to a highly selective school based on outstanding GPA and student who cannot really read or write at any level of fluency, also at selective school) but I think the trend is common. Everyone wants what is best for their child and sometimes we push them without really making sure they get what they truly need.
And there is no requirement to disclose a disability when applying, as it should be.
I don’t know if I agree a student should have to disclose their medical history on an application but there should be a way to tell from a transcript whether an applicant will be able to complete basic college tasks like read a book independently. I know there is controversy around SAT accommodations timed vs. untimed and schools can’t see that. Again, this is a marker of privilege. Wealthier kids get tested and accommodated much more frequently than poorer kids even ones with severe learning disabilities.
Lol, might help if somehere understood more about how admissions works.
It’s not 5 minutes.
It’s not getting to know a kid based on, say, they move next door.
You make a presentation. You make it. In the app and any supps, you decide what to learn about the college and its wants, how to match yourself to that, and you lay out the sections, write answers in various parts. It hits a mark, fast, or it doesn’t.
Like a job app, in ways.
“Grit” is a lot more than a tough family background. It’s determination in whatever the circumstances are. Vision, persistence, resilience, and more.
It is all of that, looking forward, assessed in a quick glance at the application for the vast majority of applicants. Since Purdue is college in the OP, I looked at their numbers. 53k applications. Assuming 20 readers (That is probably more staff than they have) and 12 weeks to review them (again probably too much time), then each reviewer needs to complete more than 220 applications per day, or about 6 per hour assuming no breaks, lunch, meetings, or distractions, for 8 hours a day. While I am sure they would love to ponder each application, the workload just doesn’t permit it. Many schools get more applications than 53k as well.
Colleges must be using algorithms to “predict” success, though, based on scores, meeting app deadlines, family income, etc. Even without readers, schools must be finding ways to measure “grit”.