So my son made it into a top 10 university (7% acceptance rate) and started in Fall.
He did very well in high school. Excellent grades but not off the charts brilliant. But he is incredibly well-rounded in every way, which is possibly one of the reasons he got in.
Freshman year first semester has not turned out the way he hoped. He is loving college. He studies for 8-10 hours each day/ all week in addition to his classes. He has a huge friends group and is really happy there. He has taken 5 classes (17 credits) in his first semester - 2 200 level courses and the rest 100 level (undergraduate courses are 100-400 levels at the Univ). All per his advisor.
The 200 level courses are related to his major and he has been doing very well in them. Unfortunately the lowest 100 level general ed course has been a struggle. While he has no issue with the subject, he just canāt seem to score well in any test. He expects to end the semester at a B. The other general ed subject is also at B level.
He thinks he is going to finish the semester with a 3.2 Gpa worst case and 3.5 best case scenario.
He is incredibly stressed about it. He wants to work in the field of investment banking and finance and he believes any GPA less than 3.7 automatically gets him tossed from consideration by any big company for his first job/internship. His friends who went to local universities apparently all have 3.8-4.0 GPA. I told him the GPAās are not comparable because the rigor of course/university is not the same. But he has āheardā from his friends that it will be an issue.
Now I have a bachelors and 2 masters degrees and I have never ever been asked for my GPA and I am almost at the top of the totem pole in my field after 26 years. But it is not in the field of investment banking.
I want to reassure my son, but he thinks I am saying stuff because I am his mom. he is an amazing kid in every way - kind, thoughtful, hardworking, smart and it kills me to see him this stressed. I have told him he has 7 more semesters to goā¦but I am also realistic that the course rigor will only increase.
Is there any reassurance I can give him. Any insights from recent graduates working in this field or those who have careers in this field?
Two B grades in his first semester of college is not something to worry about. MANY college students find themselves not getting perfect grades in college when they did in high school.
He just needs to do his best.
It sounds like everything else about this college is terrificā¦so just look forward not backward.
Thank you.
I keep telling him that. Put in the hard work and the results are what they are.
I am hoping if he hears it from other adults and not just his friends, he will actually take it to heart and not get so demoralized.
A couple of B grades in someoneās first term in college isnāt a deal breaker. When my oldest went to college, the Dean of students told parents that their kids could easily get their first B and C grades ever. And that we should let our kids knowā¦thatās not a big deal as long as they grow!
Does he even know what investment bankers do? Has he explored the 20 or so related careers that are significantly less āGPA drivenā than pure I-banking- many of which heād likely find more interesting and satisfying?
I think you can reassure him by telling him that every year the top banks reject MANY candidates with perfect GPAās-- they donāt even get an interview because there are other things missing from their resumes. And many perfect and near-perfect GPA candidates get dinged in the first round ā and there is nobody sitting at the decision meeting saying āLetās give him another chance- after all, he has a 3.9 GPA so he must be a great fit for usā.
No. Doesnāt work that way.
College is not an extended apprenticeship for the banking industry, no matter what his friends are telling him. And it would be sad if he were to squander the incredible opportunities he will have in order to make sure his ticket gets punched down the road.
And-- final thought- nobody knows what changes are coming from I-banking four years from now. Every up and down in the economy, technological advancement (looking at you, AI) means changes in hiring patterns. Iām old enough to remember the first desktop computers that showed up in my office. The General Manager of the division had a town hall meeting to reassure us all that the only changes would be that the secretaries (they werenāt even administrative assistants yet) would need to learn how to input data into spreadsheets.
Ha ha ha. Imagine ANYONE anywhere in corporate America who doesnāt need to know excel these days???
The thing about my son is he is one of the rare kids who knows exactly what he wants to do. He decided on his career path when he was in 8th grade and has been laser focused since then on his goal. Every class he takes, degree of difficulty, it is with the aim to learn more (not get perfect grades).
I did scare him about the life investment-bankers live but he is crystal clear on his short and long-term goals.
His major is broad enough that if for some reason I-banking/finance does not live up to his expectations, he can easily pivot to many other industries where his qualifications will easily land him jobs.
For some reason his friends know better about work than mom.
he knows that growth in ANY career is performance based. he is just worried he needs that GPA to cross the (automated?)screening process and even get his foot in the door.
But my point is that the Investment Banking jobs he fell in love with in 8th grade are going to be very different by the time he gets there!
Itās like wanting to go to Med school because you fell in love with Marcus Welby, MD as a kid. That show has very little relevance to the way doctors practice now. Did he even take insurance? I think patients would bake him pies if they couldnāt afford to pay him!
Itās nice to have direction as long as it doesnāt strangle you. If he really loves math, there are MUCH mathier jobs in the financial industry than I-banking. And many of those use a screening test, not GPA. You take the test, you pass, you get an interview.
This is a very familiar problem to me. I wish that I had only had a few Bās in my non-major classes.
In my experience applying for jobs people rarely ask about grades. They are likely to ask questions to figure out how well you have learned the material, but they will be asking about things related to your major and/or the job (for me mathematics and CS). Similarly, at least based on my graduate school acceptance it seemed like they cared about my grades in courses related to my major, but they did not seem to care about courses in other unrelated classes. In my case grades in math courses seemed to matter, but bad grades in two art courses did not seem to hurt me. When applying to internships if he needs to list his GPA, he might see if he can also list his in-major GPA.
Edit to add: One job did ask about my GPA, but they wanted my graduate school GPA. The issue here is that in graduate school every class was either in my major or a closely related field, which was what I could do well.
I think that we each just need to do our best and have faith that this will work out.
Bās get degrees. Cās get degrees. Aās and A+'s also get degrees, but donāt rhyme.
My Dās experience while in college and applying for internships and co-ops was that GPA was used as a screening tool (engineering, not banking). I have no idea if financial institutions give any kind of pass depending on the school since they already seem to target certain institutions.
Unfortunately I donāt know that I can ease his concerns.
He is probably hearing accurately that most large I banks use automation to pre screen applications. My bank is typical in that we screen for a 3.5 aggregate GPA and a 3.7 in major or concentration from our target schools. If GPA is omitted you are automatically rejected.
We also imbed some key word searches and other screens to whittle down the pool. The criteria is often more complicated or ad hoc from non targets.
While it is universally recognized that some ātargetā schools have grade deflation, that reality often isnāt adjusted for until the interview process.
It is in fact a challenging lifestyle (particularly early on). Statistically the wash out rate is north of 65% in first three years. Most of those kids were also ācrystal clearā on their goals so he may realize itās not for him in spite of his enthusiasm.
I wish him the best and happy to offer any advice I can provide.
I just went back to one of your prior postsā¦ is your son a recruited athlete that is an active member of a team at John Hopkins? If so he may be able to get around some of the pre screening that goes on by leveraging alumni network but he needs to start early.
I had never been asked for my GPA either. Until I was given an offer at a top finance firm some years ago. And then they actually required me to track down by decades-old college transcripts (undergrad and grad) and my high school SAT scores! No joke. After I was on the job, more than once as the hiring manager I was called into HR meetings because a background check made post-offer, pre-hire for a prospective employee had found that a personās self-reported GPA was 0.2-0.3 higher than their transcript proved, even though they may have been guessing on something from years ago when they filed out the application (as the in-house recruiter who had managed me had suggested when I filled it out, fortunately under-estimating my actual GPA). HR usually recommended rescinding the offer. That firm took GPA and test scores extremely seriously.
I canāt speak for every investment bank, but your son is not wrong that thereās at least a couple top finance firms I know that probably will exclude applicants below ~3.7. Thereās probably others who wonāt. But these particularly internships are usually between Junior and Senior year. So thereās time to recover. And if not, thereās plenty that wonāt be that regimented. Also, everything is fungible with the right networking connections which your sonās school may grant him access to.
Your son is a first semester freshman - he has plenty of time to bring up his cumulative gpa if that should become necessary. It is way, way too early to panic about his gpa. In any case, a couple of āBā grades is nothing to worry about.
Then these two B grades should not be so upsetting.
As mentionedā¦he is a freshman. He has several years to bring up his GPA. Wellā¦two anyway as some IB firms do recruit employees from their intern folks.
Thanks for that insight.
In major GPA seems to make sense. He seems to have grasped a subject like honors discrete mathematics and linear algebra pretty easily as they are related to his major in applied math and stats, but is struggling in general bioā¦for which he is putting in as much effort as the others!
His biggest concern was getting past the screening stage. He just wants the opportunity to be called in for an interview or asked to take a test or answer questions to prove his knowledge.
The GPA does matter for screening. But to me the main goal of first semester is to not dig a hole. If he comes out of the semester with a 3.5 heās totally fine. Even 3.2 could be okay. 2.8 would be a problem. For recruiting in finance (in soph year) a 3.7 GPA will not limit him at all, a 3.5 might lose a few options but still have a lot of great ones.
If you want to reassure him: if heās a a track/XC athlete as one of your prior posts indicates, thatās a big advantage in terms of networking, looks great on CV, probably gets past screening just based on personally contacting XC alums at some firms. He can akso talk to teammates about opportunities, interviewing tips, which gen eds to take in the future. Not to mention: his season likely just ended? And the semester isnāt over yet. Heāll be amazed how much more time and energy he has these next few weeks.
Thereāll be recruiting options for internships and jobs in finance he doesnāt even know about, and a portion of those will really only recruit from a half dozen schools (his school will be one of those at some of the firms). Doesnāt mean itāll be a cakewalk, but heās in a different position than a 3.8 kid at a random state school. Iād make sure to have him connect with the career center.
Finally, an applied math major will have a lot of great options in finance beyond IB. Some of those more quantitative roles will be more test based in screening.
I had 4 business majors and 1 science major, I believe the business majors took geology as their lab science and left the bio, chem and physics classes for our exercise science major (fyi, science major had 1 B in HS, freshman honors English, got her second B first semester freshman year in chemistry).
but he is crystal clear on his short and long-term goals.
than mom.