<p>D is in Boston for several days end of this week and into the weekend on another matter, and in the process has one appointment with a professor or staff member - program she’s very interested in; today she is calling and sending email for more appointments. </p>
<p>She asked me to review the email template - it’s from the business school; she just leveraged it for this purpose. It looked o.k. to me. She hasn’t applied to any of the Boston grad schools yet; from what I can gather her purpose behind setting these appointments is to try to get some sense of what it would really be like; how she’ll fit, etc.; then she’ll make her decisions about applications. </p>
<p>One of her professors is helping her - well, sort of - anyway, is there some particular advise or guidance I can give her? How can she make the best utilization of the discussions on these appointments?</p>
<p>First off, even though it’s not an interview, she should try to make a good first impression. Dress nicely, shake hands firmly, etc.</p>
<p>Depending on the nature of the program, she might ask to sit in on a class. That way, she’d have a chance to talk with students (before or after class), and get a sense of who they are. Are they the sort of people she could be colleagues/friends with? Does she respect them? What are their backgrounds like? She can also ask them to give her the “real” scoop on the program.</p>
<p>She should do her research about the program beforehand so she won’t be asking the faculty questions that she could find the answers to on the program’s website. This includes knowing the background of the faculty members, especially the one she’s talking to.</p>
<p>In the end, once you’ve established what grad programs are academically/professionally appropriate for you, it comes down to “fit.” And you can tell a lot just by visiting and seeing what kind of gut feeling you get. It is great that she has a chance to do this before applying, because she might save herself from applying to programs that are a poor fit.</p>
<p>Irene, thanks for that. I’ll suggest to her to see if she can sit in on some classes in addition to her meetings - I don’t think she thought of that. One of her appointments is with the chairperson of the department, which sort of happened by accident - she didn’t expect him to actually answer the phone when she called.</p>
<p>I disagree with Irene. Her advice is good for prospective undergrads, but not grad school</p>
<p>For grad school, classes are far less important than grad school. Ditto peers, although they can help in some areas. Grad school classes are often small seminars the quality of which is totally dependent on the prof leading the seminar.</p>
<p>What matters is the level of support the department gives to its grad students. </p>
<p>You did not say if this was for the sciences, social sciences or humanities. Each (heck, each discipline within each broad category) has its own sociology. That’s what you want to tune onto. Things like how thesis advisors are assigned. How topics are picked, How committees are formed. </p>
<p>Now, if by grad school, you really mean a professional school, skip the above advice. Classes and peers are relativley more important. Then again, a lot of professional programs are run like a continuation of undergrad.</p>
<p>O.K. I’m a bit lost, as is she - although, she’s received a lot of different scenarios of advice from people at her college, but, I cannot tell if the various advice is appropriate or not. For example, one young man advised her to rush her application essay in before her first meeting on Thursday. That makes no sense to me - one, why rush in an essay? - two, the whole purpose of the appointment(s) are to learn more about the programs so that she can reason out if she even wants to apply…</p>
<p>Bottom line, she now has appointments Thursday and Friday with various professors and department heads. The field is anthropology, with a focus on semiotics. She has the appointments but is unclear what exactly to do with those appointments, except that she knows she must go in prepared with questions that are not available on websites, etc. </p>
<p>She selected these particular schools because she does not want to pursue a PhD right now, and these schools have programs that will allow her to complete Masters only; because they have the focus she wants; and third, but still very important to her, she is interested in continuing coaching in her sport at the D-1 level, and these schools have programs that may allow her to do so. (She still intends to look at one other grad program in NYC at The New School, although it has no sports.) </p>
<p>Since there are no applications submitted as of now, should I advise her to take her academic resume? Should I tell her just to be prepared with detailed questions, and leave the resume at home?</p>
<p>If her goal is to get a MA in Anthro/semiotics, IMHO, the questions she should focus on are those not well discussed in the departmental website. I’m assuming she will already know whether the degree requires mostly course work, some research or whatever. Knowing that, the questions should be obvious. IF mostly coursework, discuss what and why. If a MA thesis is required, then questions related to that.</p>
<p>I hate to be blunt, but if someone is struggling with issues such as this at the grad application level, I must question the person’s readiness for grad school. In a program such as anthro, one will be largely on one’s own (as opposed to professional school programs, see above.) and must be ready to push, question, prod, pursuade, and carve out one’s own path. Otherwise, even at the MA level, one will be left at the door. </p>
<p>I also wonder why one would pursue such a degree? If she later decides to pursue a Ph.D., she will start over by and large - the MA will be of little credit. If she needs a path to allow coaching, there must be easier ways?</p>
<p>late to school:
She should definitely be carrying some sort of academic resume so theres a basis for conversation. she should be conversant in her area of interest/focus on what she wants to persue. she’ll find the tone of each meeting will be different depending on who she is meeting with, and she should be prepared to be “handed off” to other faculty members who happen to be around the office at the time.The faculty will be most interested in her major area of undergrad, what shes done in areas of research,etc.They arent going to care about EC’s (except as related to anthropology).D’s interviewers were most interested in her senior honors thesis topic (as it relted to her intended PhD area)the status of her research (it was in progress) and what she intended to do with her future. They are concerned about fit.Your D should know what the areas of research are at the intitutions,sone depts may have nobody doing what she is interested in and therefore wont be able to make a mentor/PhD director fit for her.
when D was looking for grad programs,doing the process and interviewing, she found the Live JOurnal Comminity “Applying to Grad” to be a wonderful resource.They have archives, and she could read the threads about interviewing.
Good luck to her and her process! Be aware, once she actually applies programs may actually PAY for her to come and be interviewed!!</p>
<p>I agree with NMD here. There are very few MA degrees available in arts and sciences; they are usually in regional studies (eg. Middle Eastern, Russian or East Asian studies). </p>
<p>Most anthropology programs are Ph.D.s. MAs are available as terminal degrees for those who, for some reason, cannot complete the Ph.D. This usually has to do with: 1. flunking the Ph.D. qualifying exams (also called General Exams) or 2. not being able to complete the dissertation. In other words, it is a consolation prize.</p>
<p>Depending on the program, a student will take courses for the first couple of years to prepare for the Generals. After the Generals, the student will present a prospectus for research then do fieldwork for the next year or so then come back to write the dissertation based on the fieldwork. </p>
<p>A student who applies for admission into an MA in anthropology program will probably not even be considered by the admission committee. Profs want to work with students who will actually specialize in the field rather than students who want to take courses only. Some of the graduate courses will be preparing students for the Generals and therefore will not be open to students who are not going to take the Generals. </p>
<p>If your D is not interested in pursuing a Ph.D., I am not sure that the MA will be useful. NMD is right. If she then decides to apply to another school for a Ph.D., she will have to start all over, and at high tuition to boot.</p>
<p>I don’t see how the fact that grad school courses are often small seminars makes them any less useful to sit in on. A course is probably the only aspect of hte program that a prospective student can see “in action,” rather than on paper. And when I was applying, meeting other students was important, because they gave me a more balanced picture. I agree that it depends on the program though. </p>
<p>I also agree that she might want to rethink her reasons and make sure they are sound. You shouldn’t go to grad school “just to learn more,” or broaden yourself, as you do for undergrad. Rather you should have specific goals in mind. An MA seems unlikely to get her academic jobs. I am unfamiliar with the field, but I am not sure what other jobs it would get her either. I know quite a few people who jumped into grad programs right after undergrad without really knowing what they wanted out of it. They’re bright people, and did/do ok in grad school. But once they get out, they are often either qualified to do jobs that they don’t really want to do, or they are not qualified to do much of anything beyond what they were already qualified for with just a BA.</p>
<p>All this stuff seems really overwhelming when you’re 22… it’s hard.</p>
<p>Irene, it’s not that classes and students aren’t important. It is just that other factors are so much more important. </p>
<p>A true graduate education is training one to teach oneself. So most of the important learning will take place outside the classroom. Classes just provide the basics, and a forum for faculty to assess the students (you didn’t think seminars were small for a reason? You thought the profs didn’t care about your views?) And fellow students? In most fields, you are on your own. No group projects. </p>
<p>So, if I were interviewing, I would be much more concerned with issues of departmental support to me as an individual.</p>
<p>I’m probably asking all the wrong questions. It might make more sense to start with the basis that she has narrowed her career focus to wanting to be “an international police officer” of sorts, but not really - she wants to work in the intelligence community investigations/analysis, perferably for one of the three letter federal government agencies. She knows that the career path accelerates if one has a master’s or better; she also knows that sometimes the federal government funds such education, but there’s no specific guarantee. One agency is recruiting her rather seriously, but the hiring process takes a year or so, and they told her they will pay for graduate school, but they are very vague on the specifics, so she doesn’t have a lot of confidence in that - so her thinking is, go ahead and get her application in process, because she can always decline any resulting job offer, if and when an offer is made - and in the interim, research and apply to graduate schools. </p>
<p>She does not want a PhD because she is concerned about the length of time required to complete it, and she is also concerned that she may get pigeonholded into academia, which she does not want. </p>
<p>For reasons I cannot quite articulate, she believes further education in anthropology will support her career intentions. </p>
<p>Anyway, that’s how we got here. I have NO idea what to advise her, and, while she already knows that very few schools offer only a Masters, I doubt she knows that deciding to continue on to a PhD means starting all over - I certainly had no idea, until I read Marite’s post.</p>
<p>In response to questions such as “mom what do you think of this or that” I had no idea what to advise her, so I recommended she make some appointments and talk to some actual professors in the programs that are of interest to her, and so since she’s going to be in Boston anyway on an unrelated matter, that’s what she did. </p>
<p>That’s how she ended up in her current situation - appointments set and confirmed, but no clue what to say to the people when she gets there.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>step back. Take a deep breath. She’s what, 21 now? Let her figure it out. Truth is, we parents are getting a bit grey, a bit dated, and its time to let the kids find their way. </p></li>
<li><p>for a MA program, the meetings she has will not be evaluative to any great extent unless she commits some terrible faux pax (like insulting the school etc.) so she should view it as a “get to know you” session. She should really be seeing how they act/react, and evaluating them, not selling herself, which should occur naturally. Departments are used to the tire kicking etc., so she should just enjoy it.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>Does your D have some foreign language fluency? It seems to me that she might do well in a terminal MA program such as in International Relations or Regional Studies. Places like Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Princeton, and many others offer such programs and their students often find good jobs in the intelligence field or in international organizations. Ask her to look up websites of universities. Such terminal MA programs are far better than the MA consolation prizes of regular Ph.D. programs. They usually involve coursework and a MA thesis. She would need to investigate the size and strength of the faculty and perhaps talk to students. But she can also do this after she has been admitted.</p>
<p>I second Marite’s advice about terminal MA programs in International Relations or Regional Studies. At a place like SIPA, for example, which is Columbia’s grad school in public affairs, students can choose a track that suits their interests, whether more towards economics or towards area studies or something else. Such schools also attract a lot of international students, which could be a bonus for someone wanting to work in an international field.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the fact that she is making a decision based partly on wanting to coach a sport makes me think she is in a preliminary stage here of thinking about what comes next. Maybe she might spend a couple of years out of school and working. My daughter did that and ended up with very different goals than those she had when she finished her undergrad. She really became a grown up while working, not while in college. While working full time, she also took some night classes and did some volunteer work that helped her explore her interests. When she did pick a graduate school masters program, she knew it was one worth the investment because she was sure by that time what she really wanted to do next.</p>
<p>Newmassdad, thanks for that. I totally agree it’s best to let her find her own way. I have a blind spot though, having no education of my own beyond 10th grade, owing to circumstances beyond my control. So when she says “mom what do you think of this”, I sort of panic, worried sick I’ll give her terrible advice. And she hasn’t yet caught on that I’m not a very good resource on the subject of higher education. I am happy to learn that schools are accustomed to the “kick the tire” approach; that helps a great deal. She called me just now from campus to say that her anthro professor spent 30 minutes with her this afternoon coaching her on how to handle her interviews, so, hopefully he gave her solid advice. </p>
<p>Marite, she does not have strong foreign language skills, unfortunately. She is considering adding arabic studies to her post-graduate education, but this thinking is as elastic as all else. At the moment, she has only four years of Latin, two of German, and one of Spanish. Your advice is well taken - I had NO idea how these advanced degrees play out. She still intends to apply to The New School, it’s just that Boston is on the schedule for this week/weekend. I am going to talk to her about looking into the schools and programs you mentioned - perhaps if she lays them out side by side comparatively she will begin to consider that a masters in anthro is too limiting, and won’t take her far enough (although she seems convinced this is what she can best leverage for the government agencies). Part of me wants to tell her that the ranking of the college of her post-graduate degree is very, very important and that she should reach as high as possible - but I am not sure if that would be good advice, or potentially destructive. </p>
<p>Sac, I liked your post and your thinking. My advice to her is to take her time, explore it, maybe take a year or two off studies and enter the workforce, consider and evaluate this carefully from a distance. But she’s wanting to stay focused on a single goal - entering the intelligence community with a graduate or professional degree, in order to give her career an accelerant that may not otherwise be present with simply undergraduate degrees. PhD programs scare her because she does not want to be in her late 20’s when she graduates, and have no credible work experience. Personally, I think she would benefit from a year or two off - she is completing her 5th year of undergrad with two separate degrees and four minors. That’s a LOT of education that, in my mind, needs to be balanced with some real world experience, in order to truly be able to evaluate what education to pursue next, if even any. </p>
<p>She only listens to me very selectively though, which, at the end of the day, is probably a very good thing.</p>
<p>If she wants to pursue a Ph.D. in anthro, the New School is a great place to go. If she wants to pursue a career in law enforcement or intelligence, it’s a lousy choice. Anthro is also an odd choice of graduate program for her career plans. She might be better off in psychology, sociology, politics (although these are all Ph.D. programs) or a program in criminal justice (John Jay and UI at Chicago Circle have good programs), or International Relations or Regional Studies (there are provisions for language learning in many of these programs).</p>
<p>Some working experience would be very good if she does wish to pursue a degree in anthropology.</p>
<p>Marite, I wish I could drill through to some understanding of why she is convinced that anthro is the thing she needs. She talks to a LOT of people at her college - mostly professors, the PhDs at her on-campus job in the school of education, and grad schools students. Each time I ask her to explain to me how anthro connects up to her desired career path, I’m handed 50+ pages of website material, accompanied by some incredibly detailed verbal explanation of issues that seems to go on and on forever. I’m no closer to understanding it than I was the first time I asked her the question. </p>
<p>If she said “technology” or “languages” etc. I’d understand. Tonight, she came home, I asked the question again, and was handed even more material to read, plus a book or two. LOL. I’m on a flight early tomorrow to San Diego; she leaves for Boston shortly thereafter; there’s no time left for me to weigh in further on the next few days, so hopefully something will come out of her appointments that may help her understanding.</p>
<p>She did say one thing that concerned me through - I asked her to articulate her understanding of what happens if she later decides she wants a PhD - is she aware that she’ll have to “start over”. She said no, and that in fact, everyone has told her the exact opposite - that it’s an easy matter to segue into a PhD from a Master’s program, or, to get the PhD later - all the credits apply, and/or transfer. </p>
<p>Oddly, I trust the information I receive from other parents on this site far more than I trust whatever she’s hearing on campus…so, maybe I should reposition my role to just try to prevent her from making any drastic errors. It’s totally o.k. if she wastes time exploring programs and investigating schools that end up to be all wrong. But it’s not o.k. if she applies somewhere, gets accepted, and begins a course of study that she later discovers is not at all what she needed or wanted.</p>
<p>Your daughter would hardly be the first person to attend grad school only to change career plans later. I suspect many of the posters on these boards did the same thing. I even went all the way through a Ph.D. before deciding to change. </p>
<p>So don’t worry about bad choices when it comes to education. Worry about the bad choices in other areas, like love life, finances and so forth. Our education system and our job world gives lots of chances for reinvention.</p>
<p>The segue works if she is admitted into a program at the same school. If she transfers, she has to start again in terms of tuition; she may have to prepare for different fields as well. </p>
<p>I just met a young woman who had to transfer because her advisor abruptly decided to retire, leaving his graduate students in the lurch. She had been nearly ready to start writing her dissertation. She had to transfer to a new school (where luckily all admitted students are offered full financial aid). But she has to re-take her generals, and this means another set of preparation. Still, the coursework she did in the MA program would not be “lost” and could hasten the time to Generals a bit.</p>