Is it better to go to a very selective college where it is stressful and very hard to get good grades or is it better to go to a semi-selective college/less selective college where it is easier to get good grades and you get fincancial aid? I believe that I have a chance at a pretty top school with my grades and test scores, but I also believe that I could get into a less selective school, like villanova, with significant merit aid and honors program because of my 4.0 uw and 35 ACT. Which would be better and how much do grades matter in college? Thanks!
Sincere academic effort will commonly be rewarded with A’s and B’s, irrespective of the school you choose. For this reason and others, I’d recommend you disregard a consideration of your future grades as you compile your college list.
Do you want to be a bigger fish in a small pond and have a less stressful time? Go fo the school where you are likely to get merit aid. But it’s not like you have to choose one or the other. You can apply to a couple of high reaches that you really like, and some lower reaches, matches and safeties. If your stats are really great, there are some fanatstic collleges that will give you excellent merit aid as an inducement. I am thinking of colleges like Kenyon and Carleton which offer merit aid to top students. Those schools are not easy though. Villanova honors program is a good bet probably, so yes, following the money is a great idea.
First you have to get in and get those big merit awards.
Most of those aren’t dependent on stats alone.
Then you have a decision to make.
There’s no relationship between selectivity and grades. Some like Brown and Harvard graduate nearly everyone Cum Laude or better. Others like Harvey Mudd are notorious for tough grading. HMC graduates a 4.0 student about once per decade. On the flip side, many state schools have lots of professors that grade on a classic curve. Don’t perform, get dropped, oh well. Lastly, if you do go to a less selective school and get a good merit award, and there’s nothing at all wrong with that, know that many times maintaining a very high GPA is a requirement for keeping the money flowing.
@eyemgh
Actually, brown doesn’t graduate anyone cum laude or summa cum laude. At brown the only Latin honors given is magna cum laude and it’s reserved for the top 20% of the class. So unlike Harvard, where a huge percentage of the class graduates with Latin honors, at brown 80% of the class graduates WITHOUT any Latin honor.
It’s possible at brown to graduate with honors in your concentration if you’ve written an honors thesis that’s been accepted, but to write such a thesis, you need decent grades overall and excellent grades in your concentration. The only other possible honors at brown are to be elected to phi beta kappa, which I believe is no more than top 8-10% of the class, or Sigma Xi, to the STEM equivalent of phi beta kappa.
https://www.brown.edu/academics/college/degree/commencement/honors
@RenaissanceMom, I was speaking metaphorically. I had no idea if either still use Latin honors or what their designation is if they do. What I do know is that both Harvard and Brown are well known for rampant grade inflation. In fact as far back as 2009, 2/3 of all grades handed out at Brown were As. The average Brown GPA at graduation in 2012 was 3.63. In 2015, Harvard was 3.65.
A qualification to what @Lindagaf said: Carleton only gives merit aid to the PSAT-based National Merit Scholars. There are other LACs that give merit aid based on their own criteria (Oberlin, Whitman, several women’s colleges, others). Don’t know about Kenyon. Some small universities like Rice also give merit aid. (And large ones like Duke and USC.) In the case of these universities, the application deadline is earlier (Dec 1 or thereabouts) in order to be considered for scholarships. Strictly merit-based aid is becoming more scarce nowadays!
@perspectivestude “Is it better to go to a very selective college where it is stressful and very hard to get good grades or is it better to go to a semi-selective college/less selective college where it is easier to get good grades and you get fincancial aid?”
In my opinion, this depends a lot on your personality and preference. I have one kid who loves to be a standout and be recognized. I have another one who hates to be the stand out and constantly seeks to make whatever she does more difficult. This second personality type if the type of person who is a better fit for an Ivy, in my opinion. She is much happier being more average in a group of stars. For other students, that would only be stressful.
This is, in and of itself, a faulty assumption.
First of all, many elite/selective colleges engage in some pretty egregious grade inflation, so you might actually get a higher GPA at a place like Harvard or Yale than you would at a less selective school.
Second of all, your performance in school depends a lot on your environment and peers. Maybe at a top school, you’re so motivated to perform well by the culture - all your friends study for hours, you love your classes, you do meaningful work - that you do better. Conversely, maybe at the less selective school, you’re not as motivated by the culture - less emphasis is placed on getting As, your classes are bigger, your friends are more of a mix and maybe more interested in partying, etc.
I would not agree with the first part of this statement - effort =/= performance. I have had a lot of students who put a lot of effort into what they did, but it was the wrong kind of effort or they simply weren’t grasping the material. When they did not get the grade they wanted, they would become dismayed and exclaim “But I worked so hard!” I would like to dispel the notion that hard work merits As. Performance is what merits good grades.
However, I do agree with the second part - simply because it’s impossible to predict what your GPA in college might be let alone how your GPA might be different if you attend this school instead of that.
FWIW here are some average 2015 GPA numbers according to gradeinflation.com:
3.65 Harvard
3.55 Rice
3.53 Middlebury
3.53 Washington University in St. Louis
3.44 UPenn
3.42 Kenyon
3.38 JHU
3.37 Michigan
3.37 Villanova
3.27 UCLA
3.20 Reed
3.17 Minot State
3.08 Nebraska-Kearny
3.06 Idaho State
2.93 CSU-Fresno
Do you believe that Harvard grading is more lenient than CSU-Fresno grading?
Or, do you believe the average Harvard student actually does better work than the average CSU-Fresno student?
Maybe some combination? How high a GPA does a CSU-Fresno student need before his grades weigh more in the scale than a Harvard 3.65?
I haven’t seen any studies that track average GPAs of students who turn down offers from Harvard/Rice/WUSTL to attend less selective colleges. I’ve seen studies that compare career earnings of such students. The ones I’ve seen conclude either that (a) there is no significant earnings difference, or (b) students who choose more selective schools earn more.
Suggestion: don’t over-think this. Choose a college based on the best combination of net cost, quality, and personal fit.
@juillet: My intent would have been better served if I’d written “sincere effort in combination with proper class placement.” Regarding “the wrong type” of effort, I associate this with students who have not previously encountered personally difficult academic challenges, which ideally should not apply to aspirants to top colleges.
Just chiming in - my son’s friend with a 4.0 and 35 ACT and tons of ECs was flat out rejected from Villanova this year, so I don’t think that’s the best example to use!
@NJWrestlingmom did they visit and show demonstrated interest? How were their essays? Did they apply early?
@perspectivestude Not sure on some of your questions, but I know he visited after receiving something from the school asking him to visit and consider the school. He was a business major. He didn’t do early application, but as a point of reference was accepted to Washington & Lee, Case Western, Northeastern, BC, Fordham and Stevens. Waitlisted at Wake and UVA (legacy). Rejected from Northwestern, U Mich and Villanova.
This is much like the statement by elite admissions officers: It’s better to get good grades and go to the selective college (if you can afford it) Grades matter for your first job, grad school, personal pride and sometimes for research opportunities. But ultimately it’s an undergrad degree and not worth financially straining yourself or your family unless you are in a university program with a high direct return (like CME for CS or a Maritime academy)
What you will generally get is better grad school recommendations.
If you look at the money magazine rankings you will find a list of colleges ranked by value.