Graduating 1 year early from high school?

College Majors Music Majors
1

<p>Does anyone have experience with early graduation? My daughter is tired of high school (she’s in 10 grade). If she takes 6 classes next year (no APs) she can graduate early.</p>

<p>I know that many musicians do go to conservatory before they are 18 if they have been home schooled as it is easier to finish online and home schooling courses that way (less time wasted). Mine is one of the older ones in her grade, so even graduating early she would be nearly 18 when starting conservatory.</p>

<p>My oldest daughter (an artist) graduated high school one year early and that proved very beneficial to starting her career at a painter early. But she had to wait to graduate in order to begin her training (in Italy), whereas my musician daughter (woodwind player) has wonderful teachers right now and practices a lot. It’s just that she has no peer group in high school (small school) and waits all year to attend summer camp. Music-wise she is ready, according to her teachers. She has also won a number of concerto competitions this year.</p>

<p>Positives? Negatives?</p>

2

<p>Since she has a excellent teachers and time to practice, if you can find a supportive peer group somehow, you might consider not going off to conservatory so quickly. Being as prepared and advanced on your instrument (as well as theory and history) as possible when applying to and attending a conservatory can only help her.</p>

<p>I agree with your daughter, high school is a drag and not nearly the most efficient way to learn the things that will really help you understand the world. Besides, the stuff that colleges want tend to be the things homeschoolers/unschoolers have in abundance: creative thinking, enthusiasm for learning, determination to accomplish what they set their minds to. You might consider picking up a copy of the book “The Teenage Liberation Handbook” (link: [Amazon.com:</a> The Teenage Liberation Handbook: How to Quit School and Get a Real Life and Education (9780962959172): Grace Llewellyn: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Teenage-Liberation-Handbook-School-Education/dp/0962959170]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Teenage-Liberation-Handbook-School-Education/dp/0962959170)). It has a variety of brilliant ideas on how to use cultural resources as learning experiences, and has a chapter with quotes from college admissions officials on what they look for in students (though as a music student, of course the audition will be the foremost concern for the institution to which you are applying).</p>

<p>It could be really beneficial to your daughter in so many ways. Do you think that is something you will consider?</p>

3

<p>rachnroll, I read through the comments and summary of the book. Since I homeschooled my daughter one year in 4th grade when the school teachers were awful, I have read these ideas before and agree with alot of them. It was my daughter who decided to go back to school–although she switched schools–for the band program, and also because it was easier when she was younger to go to class rather than do work on her own or online. She’s never had much interest in other subjects (there have been a few, one history course, biology, elementary physics) as she decided to become a professional musician years ago. It is she who wants to graduate early, and her school makes it pretty easy to do so. She’s taking one online course right now along with school to get ahead and is doing fine. Since her music camp experiences were with older students, she hears from many of them regarding their experiences auditioning and studying at conservatories. She has traveled to hear several of them perform recitals. While it was exciting to be part of the high school bands when she was in 6th grade, at her current level it has become very much of a drag and she doesn’t plan to participate in the school music programs next year. So, most of her incentive when she was younger for joining the school and bands is now gone, and she wants to move on.</p>

4

<p>I’m sorry that she finds high school band program a drag. Most students at my sons high school loved the program. I actively participated with the band boosters for all 4 years and had more than one studen tell me that he/she would have quit school if it wasn’t for the band program (particularly marching band as it is a very competitive program).</p>

<p>My son found that as he advanced between grades he was presented with more opportunities and more responsibility in the band program, and that was enough to keep him interested.</p>

<p>Personally, from my high school experiance, I wouldn’t have given up my true senior year for anything. And I think that the one extra year maturing both physically and emotionally made me a better college student once I got their.</p>

<p>If she does decide to graduate in the normal time, she may very well have some college opportunities in high school. At my sons high school they allow duel enrollment between a couple of local colleges and the high school. the student can take two ap classes at the high school and participate in all high school events, and also takes two college classes for which they get both college and high school credit for.</p>

<p>One of my sons musical high school classmates joined the community band. Two others went to a pre-college music program at a local music college.</p>

<p>A good dozen musical students from his high school went to various weekend band honors programs for high school students that were hosted at colleges. </p>

<p>then of course there is always region and all-state band that senior year.</p>

<p>There’s a million ways to go beyond the typical high school experiance without having to give up ones high school senior year experiance. </p>

<p>If you wanted to talk your daughter out of graduating high school early, you could explain to her how she could take advantage of some of these programs and take most or all of her general education requirments in high school and then when she goes to college she can just concentrate on the music classes.</p>

5

<p>My son (currently HS senior) was also ready to be done with high school before his senior year. His junior year, he took private lessons in composition from a local college professor. Once he felt comfortable going onto campus once a week, he researched academic opportunities at the college, and decided he would rather take a few courses at the college his senior year, rather than taking high school classes that he didn’t care much about. His guidance counselor was very helpful, and managed to schedule his required senior year classes around his college classes. It took some work (getting permission to take upper level classes, working through the high school guidance department, getting letters of rec.) but it was very much worth it. This has enabled him to stay somewhat connected with his high school class, participate in wind ensemble, pit band, varsity sports, etc. And yes, I think the wind ensemble isn’t particularly challenging, but the music department has given him a lot of leeway as far as missing lessons when he has conflicts with his college classes, and he enjoys the social side of it. </p>

<p>This would be an option halfway between finishing school early and staying the full 4 years. I can’t comment on graduating HS and entering college/conservatory early. I don’t think my son would have been ready to leave a year early (and I wasn’t ready for that either!).</p>

6

<p>imagep, I appreciate your comments. As you are probably aware, not all band programs are alike or provide the same experience. My daughter’s school is small and so is the band program. Although there are about 10 pretty good players in the band who practice regularly, the band director, although very nice, does not enforce any kind of practice schedule or dsicipline. As a result, the band is always out of tune, and does not improve. There is no marching band. She’s been in the jazz band since 6th grade, and 1st chair in the wind ensemble since 8th grade. She was already bored with the middle school band music in 6th grade, so she taught herself to play all of the woodwinds. She’s performed in about 15 community musical theater and opera performances, with retired/current professionals and for pay. She did all-district and All-State in 9th grade, but did not like the music they performed so she didn’t do it this year. She did concerto competitions instead and earned herself some scholarship money. </p>

<p>My understanding is that most conservatories will not accept many credits from commmunity colleges earned in advance of entering college. They want to approve them first. My daughter does not plan on taking any APs. If she didn’t graduate early, she would probably take AP English, but I don’t think it’s worth staying the year just for one AP class.</p>

<p>Neither of my two older daughters wanted the typical senior year experience. The oldest graduated one year early and was glad she did. The second didn’t, took all those APs, and regretted not getting out earlier. Her college only gave her credit for one of those AP classes.</p>

<p>Everyone is different. I enjoyed my band program through my senior year even though I was a lot better than the majority of the players. My younger brother, a better musician than me, could not stand the band program and dropped out. But he became a professional musician, and I went another route.</p>

7

<p>My son also went through similar thoughts of finishing high school early. I was open to see him finish early but he then decided he wanted to finish high school. He wanted to take AP/IB classes that were not related to music just to broaden his knowledge. He said having a closure to one stage of his life was important to him even if it costed him a year. He felt having an extra year would give him more time to improve his musical skills even though he was quite good then. We are now done with his auditions to conservatories and are hearing back from them if he made it or not. He so far made to two of his top choices and is waiting to hear from the third. He felt this last year was not wasted. He has improved more than any other times and matured so much. One year is not a long time when you look at the whole life. This is just a one direction that worked for my son, but your daughter’s need might be different. Some students connect with others at school, some at other places. In my son’s case, the youth orchestra, summer camps, and connecting with other mentors and teachers in music have helped him keep focus on his music. Finishing high school successfully with good grades helped him with the conservatories connected with universities that required the good transcript and SAT scores.</p>

8

<p>Would she consider a private Hs for her senior year? Something like Walnut Hill, Interlochen or North Carolina school for the Arts…this would allow her to be with kids her own age, but get the musical stimulation she seems to be looking for. MY D went to a small private HS school with very little music, she was very involved with a prep program at a (somewhat) local conservatory…it helped her get through as well as better preparing her for auditions.</p>

<p>Depending on her instrument, I would guess that the extra year would help with audition prep as well, as some woodwinds can be quite competitive.</p>

9

<p>We had thought about sending her to one of the musical high schools several years ago, but they are expensive, and she’d need to go to conservatory later anyway. </p>

<p>Audition-wise she is ready. She knows all the music and has been ready for some time now. She is actually wishing she could have auditioned this past month and started conservatory in the fall. She’ll be auditioning on two instruments, since she has two primary instruments.</p>

<p>She’s not advanced in music theory, but schools do start at the beginning so I don’t see problems there. This coming fall she will be part of a program put on by our local symphony orchestra–free lessons (although she already take lessons from the principal player there), chamber group coaching, opportunities to rehearse wiht the symphony–so that will be a good experience.</p>

10

<p>I know of one person who graduated early and went to CIM at 16 on oboe. I also know of a violin/oboe/comp student who went to CMU a year early. Its a shame your D’s school doesn’t have a marching band. My D enjoyed being a Drum Major her junior and senior years of high school. She was student conductor of the brass ensemble as well. It helped keep her interest in the school music programs.</p>

11

<p>Maybe it’s something unique about oboe. One of my daughter’s instruments is oboe. It just seems that if a student can understand how to make the right sound early on, he/she may as well go on to conservatory early, and I know a number of oboe students over the years who have done so.</p>

<p>My daughter would not have enjoyed a marching band (I think it would be different on brass), but on oboe, it would be time away from the instrument.</p>

12

<p>I say go for it 100%! My brother almost did auditions this year (he is a jazz drummer). He is a junior now and is absolutely DREADING senior year of high school. He is very smart, gets great grades, has a lot of friends, but he absolutely NEEDS to be at music school. He practices drums about 5 hours a day, and vibes and piano for about 2 hours. He definitely should have gone this year.</p>

<p>The reason we decided against it is because you don’t get to reaudition for more scholarship once you are enrolled at a conservatory. It will probably save a good deal of money in the long run to get another year of 7 hours a day and get ultra-prepared for auditions so that he can get as much scholarship money as possible.</p>

<p>But honestly, for the kids that have been preparing for many, many years, it probably doesn’t make much of a difference. DO IT! :)</p>

13

<p>What about graduating early, taking a gap year and practicing even more than you would otherwise? That’s what I would have done if my auditions had not gone well.</p>

14

<p>*Well not the graduating early part but the gap year part.</p>

15

<p>Money is certainly an issue. My daughter sounds like your brother–she practices constantly, she played 8 hours yesterday. One thing I’ve suggested to her is to leave one course for the final summer. That way, if she doesn’t get the scholarships she needs, she could do her 4th year of high school as she wouldn’t have graduated yet.</p>

16

<p>Gap year–no–my daughter doesn’t want to wait around for music school. She wants to start NOW, and she’s still in 10th grade.</p>

<p>As I suggested earlier, I think it is different with oboe. She already knows who the better players are; she has gone to music camp with them. There aren’t thousands of them; only some of them can already play with that certain sound.</p>

<p>Now her second instrument is a different story. With other winds it takes longer, and more technique is required.</p>

17

<p>It sounds like your daughter is ready to graduate early. You say that she seems ready musically as well. So, you might go ahead and let her apply to conservatories next year, for the following year.<br>
You also might think about Interlochen for her senior year. Talk about finding a peer group! About half of Interlochen students are one-year seniors, so they are very geared to helping musicians get the most out of their senior year there. There is definitely financial aid available there, and scholarship $ for top kids, so I wouldn’t discount it. It would put her among some really top players, with excellent academics also. They really know how to help the kids with the college/conservatory application process. Teachers are great and the ensembles are superb. We are convinced that our D did much better in the conservatory admissions process due to her year at Interlochen than she might have without. If we consider the scholarship $ she got at Eastman, Interlochen was an excellent investment.</p>

<p>Of course, in your D’s case she may be ready to go to a top conservatory without that additional year at a performing arts school. I’m just saying that it really helped my D make the decision to devote herself to music. She made a seamless transition to her conservatory, Interlochen was a great stepping stone for that. She thanks us often for sending her. For your D, she might really appreciate finally being amongst fellow h.s. students who are as dedicated, motivated, and accomplished as she is. Good luck to your daughter, it sounds like she has a wonderful musical life ahead of her.</p>

18

<p>Woodwinds, you know your D best, and I’m sure whatever you decide, everything will turn out ok. Actually it sounds like you’ve already decided. I would side with those who say to wait, though. I especially think the money aspect will be an important consideration. When you say your D is ready to audition now, I am assuming she has had sample lessons with faculty at places she wishes to apply to get their opinion. My D’s teacher was surprised that she did not get into a few schools on her list. I can definitely speak for at least clarinet that there is a big difference in the level of applicant now versus even 5 years ago. Lastly, as the parent of a current college freshman, there is a big difference between being musically ready and socially ready. Especially if your D is from a small school I would really think about whether she is ready to handle all the various social and emotional pressures of being a college or conservatory student.</p>

19

<p>Thanks for all the recommendations. It is interesting that although both of my daughter’s teachers attended Interlochen in their senior years in high school, neither have recommended that I send my daughter there. They do speak highly of it, but unfortunately my daughter had a bad experience at the summer camp there several years ago and says she will never go back (although I know it’s very different than the year-round program). At this point it would probably set her back as I’m sure requirements are different, and she only has 6 credits left to graduate.</p>

<p>As far as socially ready–she gets along better with students who are older, those who are already conservatory students, so I don’t see a problem there.</p>

<p>Of course there is no guarantee about getting into particular conservatories. It’s very competitive, but she knows that.</p>

20

<p>Woodwinds-</p>

<p>I can understand your D’s frustration, with feeling limited, that is quite common with serious music students in school music programs, where their opportunities are limited (and I know only too well, I was on the other end of the spectrum i.e wasn’t very good, etc) and so forth (it depends on the school/program). Marching band can be motivating, but it depends on what the student wants to do, as well. To a student heading into classical/orchestral music, a marching band probably wouldn’t give them all that much on that axis (might still enjoy it, though), they are very different things that don’t necessarily feed each other (on the other hand, if someone thinks they may want to become a band director and eventually work with marching bands, different story).</p>

<p>If you and your D feel she is mature enough to leave school after Junior year, if she can get enough credits to graduate then it sounds to me like she should go and try. Some people remember senior year as this great time, a lot of kids don’t, those who feel constrained by it, those who weren’t comfortable there, had gotten what they could out of it, and I don’t see what that final year would do in that case, other then the kid going through the motions.</p>

<p>A couple of points to think about, that might make some of the decisions easier:</p>

<p>-What kind of schools is she thinking of? Is she thinking stand alone conservatory or a music school in a college? The reason I ask that is programs within colleges often require you to get admitted academically as well as the music school (U Mich for example), and if she hasn’t done so strongly there senior year might be a way to boost that side, if it is needed. While they generally make allowances for the academic side (they may not expect a 4.0 and a 2200 SAT, 8 ap’s, etc) it is still a concern. </p>

<p>-I don’t know your D’s current teachers or background other then what you have written, has she ever had an evaluation by a teacher at the level of the schools she is thinking about? It sounds like she is a strong player, which is great, but it also can be hard to know what the real level of playing is out there without actually experiencing it up close (obviously, if she went to top level summer music programs/camps, she could have been exposed to that level of playing and evaluated herself). Conventional Wisdom up until several years ago was that the level of competition was only crazy high on things like strings and piano, but that is changing, among other things, brass, woodwinds and the like are now generating applicants coming out of places like Korea and China, that traditionally had concentrated in the solo instruments /strings/piano (of the woodwinds, flute was one exception) and the competition level is growing on all instruments. </p>

<p>Again, I don’t know her exact background, but it pays to be over cautious when evaluating ability, to see how it stacks up in the real world. There are a lot of kids out there who are big fishes in small ponds, who have been told by teachers and people arouind them they are so good, etc, who if you stacked them up realistically wouldn’t be at the level of competition out there on the instrument …obviously, your D having done summer camps and such may already have been exposed beyond her school experience so it might not apply, wanted to bring that up. If she feels strongly she is ready, has gotten feedback from high level teachers and so forth, then it could be time</p>

<p>-With music school admissions, I am talking conservatory, the post talking about broad experience, showing an open mind, etc doesn’t apply, since music school auditions are not like academic ones, it is all about the audition and how well you play that gets you in. The other stuff could apply where you apply academically and musicially, though, but for stand alone music schools, that won’t count for much if anything.</p>

<ul>
<li>If your D otherwise thinks she is ready, why not try for next year after Junior year? What is the worse that happens, she doesn’t get accepted to a music program she wants to? If so, she would be able to use that senior year as a ‘gap year’, and focus on intense practicing and maybe having other musical experiences, freed from the BS of high school, of having to get up at 6am to get ready, be there until 3, taking classes, getting hit with hours of homework and so forth. In a sense, it is kind of a win-win to me, if HS doesn’t float her boat, then she could spend her senior year, if she doesn’t get into the program she wants, working on what she wants to. Maybe it would allow her to work with supplemental teachers, maybe it would allow her time to listen to music, or maybe even do some music gigs school and practicing would leave little time for. Plenty of people didn’t get into programs they wanted to, take a gap year after HS, and then re-apply and get in, so if it doesn’t work out after junior year, wait a year and try again. </li>
</ul>

<p>I personally didn’t find senior year of HS all that enlightening, I had some good times, but I suspect if I could do it all over, I would have tried to graduate early as well, and I would have been just as equipped then as after my senior year to go to college, and there was a lot of negatives senior year as well that I would soon have avoided.</p>