Graduating without going on a single date, PLEASE HELP!

Colleges & Universities University of California - Berkeley
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<p><a href=“http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~ychen2/professional/GenderBalanceInUCBerkeleyEECS.pdf[/url]”>http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~ychen2/professional/GenderBalanceInUCBerkeleyEECS.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>53% of Berkeley undergrads are female, but just 15% or so of Berkeley EECS undergrads are female. Yeah, there’s a difference, but 15% is still 15%. Since there are something like 3000 EECS undergrads, 450 are female. That’s enough to talk to three each day for a full semester, without talking to the same one twice (this isn’t a strategy, of course, but just an illustration of how many options you have). And we haven’t even included the chemistry, physics, and math majors, much less the humanities and social science majors. In short, there’s a lot of potential.</p>

<p>I actually doubt you’ve been rejected that much. You’ve probably only made a small number of attempts with little success–an insignificant sample size, if you will.</p>

<p>I suspect you don’t talk to guys you don’t already know either. The thing is, it’s actually way easier to girls you’ve never met than to guys you’ve never met. There’s almost a social stigma against a guy talking to a random guy… It’s probably subconscious homophobia or something, the same reason guys never talk in the restroom, even though girls use it as a club house. With girls, it’s sort of assumed that a guy talking to a girl is exploring the potential for dating.*</p>

<p>Anyway, your only problem is your mindset. Your attitude should be, “I’m smart and I’m going to be successful. I’m awesome. Any girl who shoots me down is an idiot. Luckily I’ve got two more to meet today.”</p>

<p>That doesn’t mean that every girl should fall in love with you, and you with her. It means that if one doesn’t even give you a chance, she’s the problem, not you.</p>

<p>You’ve probably heard that pick-up lines don’t work. That’s not true. Good pick-up lines do. I’m going to give you one of the best. Here it is: “Hi. I’m Nick.”</p>

<p>You do this while extending your hand to shake hers. You keep holding your hand out until she shakes it. If she doesn’t at first, keep holding it out until she does. Then talk. It doesn’t matter what about. It’s fluff. Go to the standard “What’s your major? I’m a fourth year… How about you? Gosh, how about those UCPD beatings at Occupy Cal!” stuff. Whatever. Just keep talking. Eventually you’ll get to more personal stuff and develop a real conversation. Or… You won’t. And that’s cool. Say it was nice meeting her, and that you’ll see her around. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.</p>

<p>And yes, you do it when you see someone eating a sandwich alone. You do it to the person in front of you in a long line, and then to the person behind you. Better yet, introduce those two people.*</p>

<p>Don’t think of it as ambushing. How would you feel if a girl walked up to you while you were eating a sandwich and said, “Hey, are you free? I’m Amy,” implying that she wanted to talk to you? A pretty big compliment, right? Girls are the same. They won’t all be into you–and you won’t be into all of them–but it’s still nice to be noticed.</p>

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<p>Strong username to thread content ratio.</p>

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<p>As a socially awkward, nerdy, unattractive person myself, but somehow successful when it comes to guys, I think you have two major things wrong with your approach. One, I know exactly how you feel, but your objective should not be to kiss a girl before graduation, it should be to find a girl you’d like to kiss before graduation. Trust me, there are plenty of girls who adore nerdy guys. Two, you’re viewing females as all confident, pretty, and out of your league or not interested. That is roughly 10% of the female population. Think of them not of potential opportunities, but as friends first. This sounds silly, but try being as nice as possible to females. If you try to flirt too much, it can come off as creepy, but honestly, being very nice is one of the best ways to get a girl’s attention, and real girls, not sluts. The ones you will actually want to date seriously, not look for a one night fling with. If you think of them as no different than guys, it’ll make it so much easier to talk to them. If you can, as said above, act busy but friendly, and genuinely interested in THEM, not their pants, and you should have more success.</p>

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<p>OP, I don’t think I can anything to the advice being given, especially since I have my own struggles with the opposite sex. Some great advice in here that I could follow myself :)</p>

<p>how do you act busy, but be genuinely interested in them? To me, being interested in asking them to hang out, but then you’re not being busy…I think that is my issue…</p>

<p>And I mean, come on, PANTS are sooooooo interesting!</p>

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<p>dateless: well, I did not mean to be cruel – at least not too much :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: If you still want to meet, just message me. Who knows, perhaps I might help you at least with the having more interactions with women part or give some advice ;)</p>

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<p>Well, part of it is that you don’t act that interested in them. The sense you’re going for is that it’s a privilege to hang out with you, since you have lots of friends and lots of things going on. </p>

<p>So, for instance, if she proposes getting together on Friday night (soon after first meeting her), say you’ve got some stuff going on and suggest Thursday. Friday night is generally the most valuable time, and if you give it to someone you just met, it means you don’t have any higher priorities than her. If you don’t have any higher priorities than someone you just met… That’s a problem. Generally, you should turn down the first time she proposes, but suggest another. Like:</p>

<p>Her: “How about Tuesday at 6?”
You: “Tuesday is tough. How about Wednesday?”</p>

<p>Note that you weren’t being dishonest even if Tuesday is wide open for you.</p>

<p>Another way, which I’ve touched upon previously, is to only ask them to hang out with you at something you’re (supposedly) already doing. Develop a list in your head of 4 or 5 “standby” things you can do at just about any time to “afterthought invite” someone to join you at.</p>

<p>This probably won’t help the guys who have trouble talking to girls at all… But try to make some female friends that you have no intention of dating or anything else—pure friends, nothing more. So when you invite the one you want to date to meet up with you and your friends for whatever, your friends include other females. This makes you pre-selected—if they’re friends with you, you can’t be too creepy, right?</p>

<p>A few other thoughts…

  1. Try thinking of dating as a video game. I haven’t played video games since junior high (and you shouldn’t say you do either, even if you do), but I didn’t get frustrated and give up forever when I got killed by the Germans three times in a row. Maybe you take a day off, but then you try a new approach. Tweak the way you say things, the questions you ask, etc. Keep track of what you try. Apply your reasoning skills to dating.</p>

<p>2) Watch Swingers. It’s on Netflix Instant. It’s got some great examples of what not to do, and a few examples of what to try. The former are probably most useful (like the infamous voicemail scene). Vegas, baby! Vegas!</p>

<p>3) Don’t ask questions. I know I’ve said to, and sometimes you have to, but avoid it. Instead of, “What’s your major?” try “You seem like an English major.” The latter is an implied question, and it allows a conversation to develop. </p>

<p>Asking the first question will make her respond, “Psych.” Telling her she seems like an English major will get her to tell you her actual major, and then ask you why she seems like an English major. You’ll say, “Oh, you’ve just got this bookish look about you. It works for you. Psych makes sense, though.” That’s sort of an insult, but then you say you like it (sort of). </p>

<p>4) A lot of the suggestions I give follow a “push-pull” approach. You want her to never quite be sure if you’re interested or not. Never insult her or compliment her directly. Do lots of half-insults and half-compliments.</p>

<p>Anyway, I hope some of this helps.</p>

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<p>Telling a self-assessed socially awkward guy to play hard to get…smh.</p>

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<p>Yeah, I guess Batman is right… with certain guys, you simply get to know immediately when they are pretending things… Moreover, I believe that it takes away their greatest asset as the women looking for the hard-to-get type are not going to be interested in the nerd anyway, and the ones looking for a nice guy will not like him then either…</p>

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<p>Just so you know, I am also an EE major, actually worse, I am an EE and Physics double major, and I felt like I joined a monkhood. </p>

<p>But although I am in the holy order of electrical engineering, I never let it stopped me from meeting girls because I made it an absolute priority in my life, along with my other absolute priority, studying hard to get good grades. Given my twin goals I spent a huge amount of time scheduling my life so that I have enough time to study and concurrently joining activities that are known to have lots of girls involved (and purposely outside of engineering in order to expand my social circle). In my case, I am part of the student government for my entire time in school so far. Given student government activities involved speaking a lot with great number of students I don’t already know, I ended up meeting a lot of girls without trying too hard (it came with the activity by default). </p>

<p>So one crucial ingredient to meeting girls is MAKE THE TIME and be very deliberate in scheduling in this goal! </p>

<p>But even with that said, you need to follow this following (even more) crucial advice, which in my humble opinion, will be applicable for most of the remainder of your dating life. I actually saw this advice (written by someone far more wise than I am) a while back on the web, I found it to be very useful and appropriate for your situation and I want to share with you now.</p>

<p>Advice on women from an old hand:</p>

<p>Here’s some advice from an old man: I ain’t no genius or nothin’ and girls don’t throw panties at me, but over the many years of unsuccessful relationships and awkward dates and awkward sex, I’ve learned a few things about women.</p>

<p>First of all, and probably most important, believe that they need you more than you need them. Believe it. I said believe it! If you believe it, they will sense it. Girls have strong sensors for that stuff. It knows when you’re desperate. If you chase it, they lose interest. If they have to chase you, they get all excited and crazy.</p>

<p>NOTHING, surprises a girl more than when you don’t give a sh** about sex. If you do this enough, you actually won’t. It’s kind of a catch 22. Guys who focus on bettering themselves tend to forget about women, if temporarily, and those are the ones who get the most women, they mistreat them because they have things in their life they deem more important.</p>

<p>Also, if you’re fit guy, don’t settle the night with a fat chick unless you really like her. Otherwise, you’ll hate yourself and your standards will forever be trashed.</p>

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<p>Yep. It’s not about playing hard to get, its about honestly not caring what happens with any one particular girl (in the early phases, that is). If you’re talking to 3 or 4 girls a day, does one really matter? Of course not.</p>

<p>So the lesson is to talk to lots of girls, so that any one is irrelevant. Eventually you’ll find one that you care about… But you shouldn’t be deeply invested in someone you met 5 minutes ago.</p>

<p>Dating is, to a large degree, a numbers game. Just keep meeting and talking to girls.</p>

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<p>I really appreciate all of the advice that everyone is giving me. I just wish I were confident enough and had the self esteem to pull it off. I can’t even fathom the concept of a girl finding me even slightly desirable. As far as I know, no girl on this planet has ever been attracted to me. So it’s very hard for me to convince myself that “they need me”. Heck, were I to look at it objectively, I’d say they made the right decision by turning me down.</p>

<p>And good guess Nick, I am quite the nerd. I play my fair share of video games and participate in other stereotypically nerdy activities (dungeons and dragons anyone?). I don’t think hiding it is the right way to go, they’re such a large part of my existing social life that I can’t very well pretend I don’t engage in those activities.</p>

<p>Fermium, as an unattractive guy, I’m not going to reject an opportunity based on the girl’s physical appearance alone, especially when mine isn’t anything to get excited about. A fair number of my rejections were probably due to my looks. It would make me a hypocrite to do the same.</p>

<p>And again, it’s hard not to care about any one particular girl when I only get an opportunity every few months or so. There really aren’t many opportunities for to meet girls. The clubs I’m involved with are full of guys, the few female friends I have don’t hang out with girls. And I’m sure a girl would feel quite pleased if a good looking guy asked to sit next to her at lunch, but in my case it doesn’t work out like that. I’m not attractive enough for a girl to feel flattered if I talk to her out of the blue (if anything, it’s a bother and a waste of her time).</p>

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<p>I started writing a long explanation here, but the decided it was best to keep it simple.</p>

<p>In short, guys assume looks matter to girls as much as they to guys. It’s not true. While a chiseled body can go a long way, most women would choose a Donald Trump or a Bill Gates over a gym rat who lives in his car.</p>

<p>That’s an extreme example–you don’t need to be incredibly wealthy to be successful with women. You just need to have some stuff going on in your life (like being a student at a good university), have some interesting things to talk about that they can relate to, and be confident. You will fail more than you will succeed, and that’s okay. You only need to find one.</p>

<p>Anyway, you just listed a bunch of reasons why you’re “Dateless.” While you could work around those things if you wanted to, it really seems like you’re hung up on them. So change them. Seriously. Get on a diet if you want to lose some weight (I did–I was 210 in high school, and I’m 155 now), start buying better clothes (you can find some great stuff at thrift stores if you’re short on cash), and get a new haircut. </p>

<p>Get involved with clubs that have a good mix of guys and girls. I’m partial to these as a political science major, but the College Dems, Reps, and/or Students for Liberty (libertarians) strike me as decent options.</p>

<p>Anyway, your biggest problem is low self-esteem. I know how it is, I’ve been there. Luckily you have a list of things that you think are wrong with you. So… Fix them.</p>

<p>You don’t need to be an Abercrombie model, or in a ton of clubs, or go to parties all the time, but you do need self-esteem. If doing something non-harmful will give you better self-esteem, do it.</p>

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<p>Oh, and as for the dungeons and dragons stuff… Don’t talk about it. A decent girl won’t mind that you play those sorts of games, but few will be interested. You want to talk about stuff she’s interested in (but without saying “So what do you want to talk about?” or anything similar) and that isn’t polarizing. Goals, ambitions, dreams, etc., are always good ideas.</p>

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<p>+10 – very important stuff.</p>

<p>Fixing low self-esteem can go very far in terms of social success and dating people.</p>

<p>Start by repeating positive statements in your head – if you do it enough times, you will genuinely believe it.</p>

<p>Now, if there are any things in life that actually contradict those positive statements, it’s time to fix them.</p>

<p>I was also 210lb in high school, and I was that way for my freshman year. Being both short and fat posed serious issues to my confidence. The shortness, I can’t control, but the fatness is definitely 100% within my control. I took up cycling as an activity and just started to bike great distances during the weekends over a summer. That summer, I lost 60lb and got very fit. I literally lost 9in off my waistline!</p>

<p>With that, I gained a bunch more self-confidence, but more importantly, I now had something non-geeky to talk about. People are often intrigued about my double-digit mileage bike trips, the scars (yeah, accidents; they happen), and the story in itself.</p>

<p>As for social skills, start building them. When I was in high school, my social skills were so poor that I didn’t know I had to acknowledge it when someone I knew said “Hi” to me; I thought it was a pointless waste of words. Through the use of self-help books and a genuine desire to get a social life, I’ve built up my social skills to the point where most people describe me as a very fun and social person (even though slightly off at times ;). It’s really quite easy to learn when you have a solid approach instead of the trial-and-error that most people learn their social skills with.</p>

<p>Once you have the social skills and confidence, you should be able to approach ladies, carry on a conversation, and let the magic happen if you meet the right ones. Now, in terms of actually getting them interested, that’s another topic, but only after you have the basics of social skills and confidence can you truly apply those techniques to heavily increasing your odds.</p>

<p>As an exercise, I request you to ask a girl out for coffee as soon as you get the opportunity to. Even if you don’t get the kiss (you probably won’t), it’ll at least work as a confidence builder.</p>

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<p>^ That’s a cool story and good advice excelblue. TBH, as a female especially in Berkeley I feel the dating scene is way less than I expected going into college. I haven’t even gone on a single date either! (only a sophomore)…and I’m glad you posted this thread. When it comes down to it I think Berkeley students are often more focused on their own activities/studies that when it comes time to be social dating takes backseat to friends. Best of luck!</p>

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<p>Have you read ladder theory? Seems like you follow its logic with the “I’m not good looking enough” thing you think you’re in.</p>

<p>According to ladder theory, after college in the true adult world, women’s attraction to men becomes more heavily based on the power and salary their position entitles. I honestly doubt this is a perfect model of how the world works, but I do believe there’s truth in it. </p>

<p>So if you’re not willing to follow what everyone else has posted (I would), know that being a technical major from Cal means you’re more likely to get a job is probably far more prestigious than at least 80% of the males out there. When you do get such a job, women will be finding you far more attractive and you’ll be having less issues with confidence.</p>

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<p>As a senior who is currently struggling to find a job, this doesn’t comfort me too much.</p>

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<p>A few more things:</p>

<ol>
<li>I’m pretty sure the standard deviation in women’s perception of the model, attractive male must be like 10000000% that of male’s…seriously it’s crazy who they think are hot sometimes. So really, there’s no such thing as not good looking enough for any girl out there. As long as you don’t have some kind of birth defect or serious injury, you have met/will meet someone who finds you attractive.</li>
<li>Coming here from a predominantly white school where not many people moved around, I found out here that the diverse backgrounds of girls means they’ll find different kinds of men attractive. Obviously it’s not dramatically different, but I feel like flirting with international students vs OOS vs Cali students is very different. So know that not everything that’s been said here is law. e.g. a few girls I’ve asked swear they can tell when guys play hard to get and they hate it
But some things are definitely universally attractive like confidence. It doesn’t have to be cocky, just enough to show you are not afraid of contact with girls.</li>
</ol>

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<p>OP, I think that your biggest problem really is your self-esteem. For starters, I think you should really stop concerning yourself with how you look. You can be ugly or attractive, but what destroys your self-esteem is that you keep fixating on your looks. Just ignore how attractive or unattractive you are, it is a sunk cost because there is nothing you can do about it. Instead, focus on just being content and comfortable with yourself. Your confidence will naturally grow once you are satisfied with yourself. I personally don’t think it matters whether you are into geeky things, like D&D, or “cool” things, but that if you are content with yourself then it shows when you talk to people and people will naturally find you interesting. </p>

<p>What I think the best thing to do right now is to just ignore this thread, ignore what you think people think about you, and just be yourself. Don’t be concerned if you don’t meet girls often or that you think girls might be better off with someone else. Just go with the flow and be yourself.</p>

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<p>Regarding the salary and position: one thing I noticed is that the people with the best paying salaries / positions of power generally tend to also have a certain set of social skills that put them there in the first place.</p>

<p>Some people figure it out in middle school, others in high school / college, and then some when they’re 40. Build those social skills and get the self-confidence. It’ll not only help with the girls, but job prospects too.</p>