<p>It’s ok to not date before you graduate from college. You’re still young – you have a long way ahead of you. In fact, develop your career first, make your parents proud of you, and then all the other things, such as dating and marriage, will come along. Come on, cheer up. It’s your senior year…in fact, you only have one more semester left after this. Don’t let the “dateless life” rob you of making the best out of your life at Cal.</p>
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<p>I used to have that exact mentality. I’ve since learned that it indicates a fundamentally flawed understanding of attraction. The biggest thing you’re missing is that attraction is not a choice. You can’t choose to be attracted to someone, or not to be attracted. Neither can a woman. This isn’t a “game” in the “playing games, jerking her around” way. It’s a game in the “if you want to be successful, you need to learn the rules” way.</p>
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<p>Those are the rules. Some men are skilled from birth at generating attraction and flirting. Most aren’t, myself included. If you’re not having success at dating, and there’s no obvious reason, then the problem is that you don’t understand how attraction is generated.</p>
<p>It’s quite simple, really. Men determine a woman’s initial level of attractiveness primarily from physical appearance. This is evolutionary–it relates to her perceived fertility. Of course, there are many attractive women I wouldn’t date, but the initial attraction is focused on looks. Women have a huge disadvantage here. For one, it’s something they have little control over. For another, it’s something that peaks relatively early in life and then declines. I’m not saying this is fair or how I would design the system if I were a God, but it’s how it is.</p>
<p>Men are much more fortunate. Our attractiveness is based on our value–our social standing, our ability to provide, our lack of any immediate disqualifiers (e.g., extreme emotional instability), etc. Physical attractiveness plays a role, but a much smaller one. There are very few women who would immediately and completely disqualify a man based on appearance alone–far more men would immediately disqualify a woman based on a lack of physical attractiveness.</p>
<p>This is great for men for two reasons: First, because it’s something we can learn how to better convey, and second, because our value actually does tend to increase over time. There’s a reason a woman in her fifties might seem past her prime, while a man in his fifties seems distinguished. Again, this isn’t fair or right, it’s just how it is.</p>
<p>The stuff I’ve advocated in this thread is an attempt to improve a man’s ability to convey value. Most men today have enough value to find a woman, but they are bad at showing it. A key way is confidence. This is why the nerdy engineer ends up dateless even though he would make a great provider, but the worthless biker gets a girl. </p>
<p>So I’m not advocating playing games. I’m advocating learning how attractiveness is generated, and then finding a way to generate it.</p>
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<p>You seem to think that women think like this:
“Wow, look at him. Good looking, smart. Oh, wait. He just walked up nervously and asked me out. Haha, no way I’m saying yes to that. I want a guy to play games!”</p>
<p>That’s not it at all. It’s not like a woman is attracted to a guy, but then decides not to go out with him because he doesn’t play games. It’s that she feels no attraction unless he plays games (by that I mean systematically generating attraction).</p>
<p>Women say they want a straightforward guy. If that means a “nice” guy who is a little nervous about talking to her and who lacks self-confidence, and who calls her an hour after getting her number… Well, no, that’s not what they want. She simply won’t feel attracted.</p>
<p>Now don’t get me wrong. Being straightforward (but never needy) can actually be very effective, but you have to have a high degree of confidence to pull it off. If your username is “Dateless,” you’re not there yet. It’s easier for someone who isn’t particularly confident to fall back on other ways of demonstrating value that are better defined, like those I’ve outlined. Think of “straightforward” as a college level course. If you’re in junior high school, it’s not going to work for you. If you already already have your bachelor’s, it probably will.</p>
<p>well actually lol, I’ve never actually gone dating or asked anyone out since I haven’t really found a girl that I’d actually want to ask out yet. I’ve got lots of friends that are girls, but I just see them as regular friends (which I’m sure is the case for most guys).</p>
<p>But yeah Nick’s advice is overall legit (although I didn’t read his whole post yet since it’s pretty long). Yeah I see a lot of what I said quoted in it which probably means there’s a rebuttal after the quote but I said most of those things to give a different perspective to the situation, since I still feel that there is no one right answer to any psychological or sociological event/situation, and that I honestly feel things will play out eventually. When the OP finds the special someone, he’ll go for it I’m sure and hopefully she has mutual feelings. If not, who cares, there are like 3 billion women on this planet and a couple million should be around your age, and you’re probably only 20/21, you’ve got lots of time. My grandpa didn’t lose his virginity until he got married at the age of 28 (according to my mom) and he had SEVERAL kids, so I think he had a decent amount of passion in his life despite waiting so long.</p>
<p>Everyone’s life and situations are different, and that’s a good thing. Otherwise TV shows, movies, and real life would be quite lame if a given input always guaranteed a given output in the social/psychological realms.</p>
<p>EDIT: I did actually go on one date at the very beginning of my freshman year (first and only date in my entire life and it was super simple get some yougurtland sit down somewhere and talk, then walk her back to her dorm and I gave her my sweater but for some reason she was still cold so I put my arms around her and the walk back was really nice), and it went really well, but I got too involved with my education and totally zoned out all social interaction, including her which I initially felt sad about but got over it pretty quickly, and decided I didn’t want to get involved until after I finished my education since I feel like I can’t excel academically and have a relationship at the same time.</p>
<p>In fact OP, all I did was I remember liking the way she spoke and her overall personality and smarts, so I befriended her and after a few days I asked her if she wanted to go to yogurtland with me and a couple of some newlymade friends that I made during the silly engineering orientation event out on memorial glade (anybody remember that lol), but those friends didn’t show up, so it was just me and her, and we just got our ice cream and found a nice place to sit and just talked. The walk back was really nice though. </p>
<p>So yeah instead of thinking about real dating, why not start with simple things like that?</p>
<p>That’s good diivio. not a lot of people are like you. I always am a little jealous actually no nvm. haha im not. but i just want someone that i truly like. i think a lot of people are in it for other stuff, but you know…that’s their thing. maybe if i was asked out, it’d be diff. but i never really “flirt” or anything so i guess that’s required…</p>
<p>Diivio, welcome to the friendzone, enjoy your stay because you won’t leave.</p>
<p>hey OP, I don’t know if you still check out this thread or not, but I just wanted to say you’re not alone in your struggles with females. I’m currently a grad student and I still haven’t been on a single date (then again I didn’t even ask out a girl until my 3rd yr in college). The most successful I’ve been is to just hangout with some girls after I asked them out, but they made it clear they just wanted to be friends</p>
<p>My brother graduated from Berkeley and has been working as an engineer for a few years. He also hasn’t ever had a girlfriend. Unlike me, he actually has a pretty decent social circle, takes care of his appearance, has good social skills, etc. But he just can’t get any females to be interested in him. So you’re not alone</p>
<p>Anyways, I’m not sure what to say about the advice that you should just be nice to females. You don’t want to be placed in the friends zone. Then again, a few girls in the past have been interested in me, and its probably because I came across as this nice, innocent good boy. So maybe just being nice works?</p>
<p>The previous advice about joining a volunteer organization to meet girls is right. I joined some, and they were mostly female-dominated. However, I never got much out of it because I was painfully shy at the time. Also, I had nerdy interests and don’t have the mainstream interests that they did, so I had trouble making conversation with them. So if you’re the same, you might be better off just joining a gaming club instead.</p>
<p>What’s wrong with the friend zone? I’m a girl, and an EECS major, and some of the best relationships I’ve had have been with people who were my friends at first. Maybe they befriended me with the intention of asking me out, maybe they didn’t, but the fact is I acknowledged them as a good friend before I ever thought of them romantically. I don’t think you should only date friends but if you have a friend who you really want to date there’s no harm in asking. They might say yes.</p>
<p>@Malana, I agree. Being friends with someone allows you to really get to know their personality. But it kinda sucks cuz…well…it’s the friendzone. There’s this guy I started hanging out with as a friend and now I really wanna date him but I’m living with the fact that it’s never gonna happen. lol, my bad for getting him in the friendzone in the first place. But hey, otherwise I wouldn’t have found out how cool his personality is. Take this to mean whatever you want, but when my friends (who don’t know him) took a look at him, they said he wasn’t attractive at all (physically) and didn’t know what I saw in him. I completely disagree and think he’s the cutest boy ever because he’s really sweet.</p>
<p>@Diivio: I really like your outlook on the whole thing, really optimistic. And being someone who also hasn’t dated (only a freshman, but whatever), it’s seriously comforting, lol.</p>
<p>@OP. Hey, it’s been a while since you first started the thread. Any luck? :)</p>
<p>Lemoncat, if you want to date him then tell him. If he were anywhere near my perception of a normal heterosexual guy, he would appreciate it and probably say yes if he gets along with you that well, no matter what either of you look like.</p>
<p>itt: taking friendzone way too seriously</p>
<p>If it makes you feel better, Stephen Hawking doesn’t understand women either</p>
<p>[Women</a> are a mystery to British physicist Hawking - Yahoo! News](<a href=“http://news.yahoo.com/women-mystery-british-physicist-hawking-135814776.html]Women”>http://news.yahoo.com/women-mystery-british-physicist-hawking-135814776.html)</p>
<p>LOL ^</p>
<p>Just for the record, this thread is awesome. :D</p>
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<p>These are good words of advice. I’ve complained about the friendzone before, but really, the friendzone isn’t always set in stone. If the person was deadset against ever dating you when you first became friends, then yes…you’re probably going to be stuck in the friendzone. But if they were ambivalent/indifferent, then there’s a good chance that you can be more than friends, if one of you has the guts to ask. </p>
<p>And LOL about Stephen Hawking.</p>
<p>^What does itt mean?</p>
<p>Agreed. LemonCat, the “friend zone” is where women put men, and once a man there it is next to impossible to leave. That doesn’t mean a man and woman must start dating as soon as they meet… I’m seeing a woman now who I met six months ago at work. We’d always been polite and everything, but there was also always a very flirty vibe between us, which I worked to institute from the moment I met her. Sucks that she only broke up with her boyfriend a month before I move from LA to Berkeley, but what can you do?</p>
<p>Men don’t put women in the friend zone. Every woman is a potential mate. Not necessarily under the current circumstances, but if whatever kept him from being interested changes, he’ll have no problem switching from a “friend” mindset to a “dating” mindset. It’s harder for women to make that shift with men in their friend zone.</p>
<p>Don’t listen to this “be nice and gentle stuff” the girls here are telling you. That’s probably what you probably have been doing to try to get the attention of females, and it does not work. Girls want someone with a backbone, someone who is raunchy and risque, and is not afraid to not give a f**k about what anyone else thinks about them. Girls will tell you something along the lines of “be nice, sweet, and kind and you will get them” for dating advice. NO. That is the express train to the friendzone. You have to be yourself and let go of the feeling that your being judged by the girl. A little bit of cockiness is not a bad thing, but if you overdo it will backfire. Good luck and be yourself.</p>
<p>^As a girl, I totally agree with that. I mean, obviously you can’t be a total a-hole, but some guys are just * too * nice, so I feel like I can’t be myself around them because they’ll judge me or whatever…so we end up being just friends no matter how awesome he is. </p>
<p>hahaha and @nick, I’d say girls work more or less the same way as guys. The only reason a girl would have a hard time switching is if it was something really difficult to look over (like even if things change, the change would only on the surface, or the initial impression was just really strong).</p>