<p>the grandmother maynot really change her mind overnight, or even ever ; the important thing is for her to welcome the girlfriend into the family and not create a rift with other members of the OP family. I agree with Hunt, which is why I suggested introducing the girlfriend slowly.
Think about this from the perspective of the girlfriend as well. It would be bound to hurt if the grandmother openly rejected her or otherwise made her displeasure over the relationship known.
I am reminded of the flap over Obama’s remarks about his grandmother; he was accused of “throwing her under a bus” although I had read a moving tribute to his mother, grandmother and wife he wrote last year for Mother’s Day (i can’t find the source right now). What he meant was that she continued to have reservations about African-Americans, and yet “loved him unconditionally.” That was the important thing.</p>
<p>Galosien – That’s interesting and I didn’t know that. Lucky for my brother that his elderly in-laws who live in China accepted him and welcomed him into their home when he visited. Hopefully this means that the traditions are changing in China.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t be surprised in some areas of China are more progressive than Singapore is currently – at least culturally. A lot of stigma is still borne against local non-Han minorities, whereas because of Communist doctrine the American blacks were seen as bastions against American imperialism, or something of the sort. </p>
<p>Singapore bears racism against its own minorities mainly. The thing is, it’s very subtle. Officially the policy is of “racial harmony”. There is nothing resembling Jim Crow. But it is the social barriers against cultural mixing and by extension, interracialism, that annoys me greatly.</p>
<p>But yea, my advice to the OP is to introduce her slowly. And the OP knows his grandmother better than us. But what is her personality anyway? Was she an iron lady in her day?</p>
<p>37 years ago my grandmother (maternal) was outraged that my mom allowed my brother to date an Italian girl. That girl has been my SIL for 26 years. 52 years ago my grandmother (paternal) was horrified my dad was going to marry a catholic girl. My youngest brother likes to tell the story of my paternal grandmother telling us about a group of catholic thugs beating up her brother on his way to work because he was protestant- when I asked how they knew he was protestant she replied indignently I told you he was going to work. We have come a long way- we’ll get there soon.</p>
<p>My point was that you dont need to Protect the grandma. Nor should you pussyfoot around the fact that her grandson has a GF of a different race. </p>
<p>He shouldn’t have to hide his gf from his grandmother, if other girls met grandma, then this one should too. If grandma can’t handle it, well, she doesn’t deserve her grandson’s company.</p>
<p>I don’t buy this go slow thing, its allowing the racists to have power that they don’t deserve. If Rosa Parks didn’t just sit down, who knows were we still might be, why this go slow thing, that I don’t understand.</p>
<p>What is to be accomplished by going slow, to spare grandma’s feelings? SHe will either accept the idea or she won’t. I wouldn’t subjec the gf to grandma if there is any sign of grandma being rude, so I would feel her out as it were, but let grandma still have that power, why?</p>
<p>For me, it would be all about how BF handled it; If BF handles it well, I really believe grandmoms response would be a very small matter.</p>
<p>If the grandmother had disliked a certain race for so many years, what makes you think that she is going to accept it now? </p>
<p>I don’t understand when people say that you should introduce the girlfriend slowly. What does that mean? You introduce her and that is it.</p>
<p>If the grandmother doesn’t accept the girlfriend, then that is her loss. I would still bring the girlfriend to family functions and not “hide her” from the family. If the grandmother doesn’t feel comfortable, then she could leave.</p>
<p>WHat insomniac said is exactly right. If grandma is going to “accept” the girl, then she will, if not, then she won’t. Period. Dragging it out is just pointless, and her age is irrelevent, that she might be kind in other ways is irrelevant, she may pleasantly surprise everyone. She may not like it but will be quiet for sake of family peace, she may be a jerk about it, but dragging it out, eh, why?</p>
<p>The GF is a person and should be treated as such, not someone that grandma or anyone needs to be eased into meeting.
If she was my mother, I would say:</p>
<p>Mom, Johny is has a wonderful GF, she is this she is that. We are having dinner next week. And she is black, he is afraid to introduce her to you because of how you have spoken in the past. I don’t want my son nor his GF hurt by bad words or comments or anything. So…</p>
<p>I would tell her exactly what my son was feeling, and wouldn’t tiptoe around the issue at all. Because Grandma needs to decide how she is going to be, but there is no reason to hide the GF.</p>
<p>Again, grandma may be just fine with it, but if her own grandson is concerned with her “reaction”, then she needs to be made aware. People in a family that have racists views get away with it because people go, oh, that just uncle bill, or grandpa larry, someone at some point needs to step up and say, stop, I will not listen to anymore racists comments. Its not cute, its not funny, its not old fashioned, it is cruel, sad, and disgusting, and I will not listen to it anymore.</p>
<p>The OP seems to care deeply about his grandmother. He’d like advice on how to introduce his GF to her without causing waves (on either side–think about the GF’s reaction if his grandmother rants and raves). Telling him to turn his grandmother out of his life is probably not the advice he’s looking for.</p>
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<p>If the grandmother doesn’t accept it, then he will have to choose between his girlfriend and grandmother. That is his own personal choice.</p>
<p>^^Of course. But he’s seeking advice on how to avoid having to make that choice. I know lots of inter-racial marriages; in some cases, the older folks welcomed the newcomer with open arms; in other cases they accepted the GF or BF with good enough grace not to cause a rift in the family and in yet other cases, they disowned their children or grandchildren. The OP wants to achieve either one of the two scenarios. I’m sure he’d like ideas other than cut off all ties with racist grandma.</p>
<p>I remember many years ago a maternal cousin’s son married a black woman. We’re talking maternal side, but my dad reacted in such an embarassing way; I wasn’t there, but I heard about it, and many feelings were hurt. I suspect there were occasions that my parents were not invited to because of my dad’s attitude. I say it was his loss, not theirs. But I did feel bad for my mom, as it was her side of the family.</p>
<p>Fast forward years later and I’m in a bit of a bind myself. I am due to attend a family function in a couple of weeks, to celebrate a family member’s 90th birthday. I think I wanted so badly for that legacy in my life to be over with that I missed some subtle cues that my brothers are racist. I was visiting with my brother’s daughter a few weeks ago, who has two young children. One of the dolls given to the two-year old daughter (brother’s first grandchild) is a black doll; my niece embarassingly told me that when my brother’s wife wants to see him squirm, she’ll call the baby doll Oprah. They get quite the rise out of him. I can’t even begin to tell you how painful these last few weeks have been, realizing that this brother feels so comfortable expressing his outrage at another race; how dare his darling granddaughter have a doll named Oprah. I’m sure if Oprah were white, he’d not have a problem with the doll being called that. </p>
<p>Thankfully my other brother who is also outspoken of those who ‘feel entitled’ won’t be there (feeling entitled is his code word for black people). The party I’m attending is for my aunt, whose grandson married a black woman. I don’t know of any other family members (and there’s a large contingent - my mom was one of 10 kids) who have been so vocal about minorities as my family of origin. My oldest brother is sixteen years older than me, and he has tried to be the family patriarch (now that both my parents are gone), but I’m feeling more and more removed from my own siblings now, and am seriously thinking I might need to reach out more to my cousins with whom I share my values. This is the position that racist family members put other family members in. To make a choice. I hate it.</p>
<p>Why would you NOT reach out to you cousins who share you values, just because you are realted to someone doesn’t mean you have to solialize with them if the are obnoxious, hateful, hurtful, etc.</p>
<p>They have made the choice, and you don’t have to accept it.</p>
<p>Remove yourslef and feel not guilt for it. They don’t care about your feelings, and obviouslly don’t care about others, so don’t feel obligated to be around them.</p>
<p>I would not want my children around people like that.</p>
<p>So, hold onto the relatives that are kind, and caring, and open, and not racist and let the others go. You will suddenly feel very free.</p>
<p>And it wouldn’t be the grandson removing grandmother from his life, that would be up to the grandma</p>
<p>Kippychick: How old are you?</p>
<p>almost 50, why? </p>
<p>I just think that it is a waste of life to try and hold on to family that are hurtful, mean spirited, etc.</p>
<p>There are lots of kind, open, caring, wonderful people in this world, and to try and deal with mean relatives just makes for a miserable life.</p>
<p>I had a BIL who used to say some terrible things. One dinner I told him, in front of the entire family, that I thought what he was saying was terrible, and I didn’t want to hear it anymore. He thought he was being funny. He wasn’t. But people didn’t want to rock the boat by saying anything, I just decided I had enough, and I didn’t want my daughters to think that I thought what he was saying was okay. By not saying anything, I was approving what he said, and I wanted my daughters to know that it was okay to step up and say something, even to a relative. Just because someone is related, doesn’t mean you have to put up with hate talk. </p>
<p>So, yes, I understand the family dynamic, I understand having older relatives, I understand the idea of respect, but I also understand that when people are acting racist, if you say nothing, you are letting them think you agree and that is what your kids see. The OPs parents obviously did a good job raising their son, they should not be afraid to tell grandma that her attitude potentilly can drive her grandson away.</p>
<p>You sounded younger. My mistake.</p>
<p>Within my extended family, there have been estrangements, including over relatives marrying “out.” The people who were affected were not just the ones who married out and the ones who objected. Children, too, which meant cousins. As well, relatives had to take sides. It’s been incredibly painful. In other cases, if bridges were not burnt completely, some folks eventually were won over.
Nobody’s perfect. As Hunt said, the grandmother may be racist, but she may also be a loving grandmother. If she can be made to accept a GF of a different race, all the better. Why dismiss her without even trying?</p>
<p>I never said to dismiss her, I just said not to feed her fears or whatever, nor play her game. I said give her a chance, but don’t let her have power in that regard.</p>
<p>If you read my posts, I said she may very well suprise everyone and have no issues at all. But why drag it out? She has had a lifetime to change, and if she is indeed “traditional” why should everyone tiptoe around her issues? </p>
<p>I said to try, but don’t make it this drawn out process. Would you tell your own daughter to stay with a BF who was mean, give him a chance to change? </p>
<p>So, say your child was dating a racist, who was vocal about it, do you tell her to just stick it out, he will grow and maybe change?</p>
<p>A loving grandmother wouldn’t create an environment where a grandson is afraid of telling her he is dating a black person.</p>
<p>How long do you wait to change grandma? A month? A year? If she needs to be made to accept a person who isn’t the same skin color, that is not a loving grandmother. </p>
<p>And because people take their time, waiting for people to get over their hatreds, instead of stepping up and saying something, the behavior continues and is tolerated and acceptable.</p>
<p>Why be around toxic people? ANd what in the world is wrong with telling people that racism is wrong and unacceptable, just because they are related to you in some way? If they weren’t related, would you want them around your children? Sometimes it takes speaking out immediately, and saying you will not be around that kind of talk, and not waiting, for change to happen now. Going the slow route does no one any good.</p>
<p>I had one realitive who bad mouthed a SIL. He started that talk on my sofa. I told him no more, it would not be tolerated in my home. He could think what he wanted, but I refused to hear it anymore. I told him I loved him, but his talk was hateful. And, you know what, it worked. I wasn’t going to wait years for him to change. Just because people are related doesn’t make them good people. </p>
<p>And you know what? Sometimes, its okay to burn those bridges. </p>
<p>Again, if your daughter was dating someone cruel, would you tell her to stick it out?</p>
<p>kippychick - I should have included the facts that the closest relative that I speak of is no less than 1000 miles away, so I don’t spend that much physical time with any of them, brothers included. It’s sort of a clicky thing… groups of cousins who are siblings tend to live near each other. So I have to pick and choose how I spend my time traveling, who I spend time with, etc. My cousins (as a side note, of 30+ first cousins on my mom’s side, I am the second youngest) all seem to have more frequent get togethers than we do, but they all live relatively closer to each other than I do with my sibs, so they have more chances to see each other and make stronger connections. I do find it interesting that among the still-living relatives on my mom’s side of the family, almost all the females are more liberal and almost all the males (not at many of them, except my brothers) are hard-core Republicans. </p>
<p>It’s not like I have oodles of time and opportunities to ‘work’ on my brothers. I also do not want to make it seem like my brothers are all evil. One brother is a Stephen’s Minister at his church; he does very good things in his community. But he sticks with what feels safe for him, and if you say anything to threaten that, he is noticably uncomfortable. Just like my dad was, but censors himself more carefully. It’s funny because my brothers will all joke about how racist my dad and his side of the family was, so from their perspective, they must not seem so bad.</p>
<p>BTW - while I am enlightened from this thread, has anyone noticed that this post is the OP’s first, and he hasn’t been back? I always suspect a ■■■■■ when I notice a somewhat controversial topic being brought up by a new poster, who then doesn’t return to contribute.</p>
<p>^Yeah, but it was only today. I don’t think “newbies” have any idea how much time some of us spend here, and how much “action” can happen in a few hours. I don’t think most forums are NEARLY this active.</p>