gratuitously mean teacher

Parent Cafe
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<p>“I wonder if this behavior may be part of the sports/military model: Tear them all the way down and then re-create them.”</p>

<p>FWIW, the one and only military retiree/teacher my kids have had is a fantastic, supportive and enthusiastic teacher. Sad to say, he was called up late last semester and is now at war. We all await his return. My own experiences of several decades ago support the evil coach stereotype, but my children have had some pretty good teacher-coaches.</p>

<p>WashDad, #13. Stay on that soapbox, please! You have hit the nail on the head.</p>

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<p>Binx: I don’t think there’s any way to “handle” this type of situation except to give the teacher what he wants ---- lots of space. Maybe there’s a method to this madness and he acts this way so that students never dream of asking him for a recommendation and that’s less work for him. Fortunately for your D, she doesn’t need his help as an instructor. </p>

<p>S1 had a similar teacher for Advanced Comp-Lit junior year — not a coach actually — whose MO is to use a lot of sarcasm and gratuitous negative remarks to keep students on the defensive. She also played favorites in the class to the extent that it was obvious and dispiriting to many. My son is the type of student who likes to interact with teachers, and he likes the teachers that don’t mind kids playing devil’s advocate in discussions and stirring things up some. No way could he do that with this teacher and wisely didn’t. He got an A in the class, but he didn’t want to approach her for a recommendation. Frustrating because the English teacher is one you usually want to ask for a rec. He just didn’t trust her. Needless to say, I will make sure that S2 is not assigned to her classroom.</p>

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<p>Cheers, you wrote: “I’m in the middle of just such a squirmish now” and I find myself very fond of your misspelling as a new coinage. I think the word you meant was skirmish (a small battle), but the idea of word for a small battle that makes you feel uncomfortable–a “squirmish”–really, really appeals to me. Thanks for giving me a new word.</p>

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<p>I know SS will find this a bit of a surprize, but we’ve had a bad one or two educators. We went through the system had the meetings with principal and teacher. </p>

<p>In front of us, the principal’s first job was to defend her teacher, that’s a given. The next morning she called us and offerred a reasonable solution to the situation which we accepted. In between in private, she dealt with the teacher and what ever corrective action was between them. AS it should be. </p>

<p>Would any of you whom have made these statements want your boss to berate you infront of coworkers or customers? I don’t think so. So there is no reason to assume just because the disipline didn’t happen directly infront of you that it didn’t happen. But also, what does a misreable disposition or personality warrant as a corrective measure? </p>

<p>Sometimes people are miserable for no reason, others have spouses with cancer, divorces or other things common to people. Should they all be fired if they make our “child” unhappy for a short period of time? Can our kids only learn from “happy” teachers? or the ones who say the “right” things? What if the best teacher your kid ever had, wasn’t nice? would that make them a bad teacher?</p>

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<p>As far as the coach thing? My kid’s coaches were pretty good teachers. One was an AP bio, another AP Chem, another honors math and one more honors english. Lo be the underperforming soccer player in the soccer coach’s class, you didn’t see the field if you didn’t perform in his class. </p>

<p>Maybe it’s a football/wrestling thing that depends on the what the district and community’s emphasis is about?</p>

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<p>OP…miserable is fine. Picking out kids and bullying them is another matter. Be glad you never had to deal with an unresponsive school system.</p>

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<p>I have seen more than a few teachers who misuse their power, usually with some sort of favortism and corresponding anti-favortism. There was a teacher who disliked me and my involvement at the district, she was soooo smart in her methods of picking on my kids, never anything that would be outrageous, just the little borderline things, like not calling on them much and never giving them the benefit of the doubt in anything.</p>

<p>This teacher administered the gifted program. One of my kids was referred by her classroom teacher and tested, but declined. I knew this was erroneous, but did not fight it, as I knew the program would not be great anyway. The next year she was referred again and declined again. The next year she was referred again and declined again. Later she was fully tested and diagnosed LD, but also it showed she was way over-qualified for the program. Because of the slowness she was borderline on that timed test and the snotty teacher took advantage of it. It was a no win situation, there was no way I could gotten around her deeds, she was smart enough to do things that would have made me sound like a whinging helicopter mum, so I ignored it and warned my kids not to take it personally.</p>

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…or teachers berate you in front of your classmates? That’s kinda the issue here.</p>

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We’re all allowed bad days, sure. But I’m not sure I understand: Are you saying that those bosses you mentioned would be allowed to publicly berate their subordinates if the bosses had problems at home? That a boss can be mean, and be the best boss ever?</p>

<p>In my OP (that means “original post,” not “OpiefromMayberry”) I said this was this teacher’s reputation. I don’t think it’s temporary. I also said my D is dealing with it. However, I appreciate the posters who have given advice on how to help her - I think I especially need to support her decisions (to act or to lie low) and not let this teacher bust her confidence or make her feel like she’s doing something wrong. On good days, this teacher is simply gruff. Blunt. Bristly. We can deal with that. But on other days – that is, any day my D or another student needs his attention, the reaction is inappropriately unkind. I’m not asking for favors, I’m asking for manners. Respect. What he’s paid for.</p>

<p>If a teacher “wasn’t nice”, I doubt I would feel he/she was the best teacher my kid ever had. Would be scary to think about the rest of them.</p>

<p>By the way, I like that “squirmish” word, too! Except I didn’t pick up on it till dmd pointed it out.</p>

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<p>I agree with Northstarmom. This type of abuse should not be tolerated. Isn’t there some way a student could gather evidence of abuse that could be used in a confrontation before the school administration? If it were my child, I would provide him with a digital voice recorder, and have him record his classes with the abusive teacher. If the teacher is as bad as suspected, he/she will eventually start in with the verbal abuse, and it will be caught on tape. I would gather several incidences of such abuse, as well as maintain a diary of each incident involving unfair grading, verbal putdowns, or other unprofessional behavior, and present that at the meeting with the principal. If this yielded unsatisfactory results, I would seek legal recourse against the teacher and the school district. There is no way a teacher should be allowed to terrorize and demoralize his/her students.</p>

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<p>Repeated problems over a long period of time based on a “miserable disposition or personality” in a public school teacher? How about termination?</p>

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<p>My DD had two nasty hateful teachers during her high school years. One was the speech teacher during DD’s freshman year. I will never forget the teacher announcing to parents during open house that our “Freshman are not likable! You might love them at home, but they are NOT likable!” Did I hear that correctly? I looked at my husband and my best friend and her husband who looked equally confused as the teacher continued on her tirade about freshman. I e-mailed the principal to voice my concern that my child, as well as all other freshman who had that teacher, were being unjustly maligned. Surprisingly, DD’s h.s. principal was able to walk upright … with his lack of a spine, he probably found it difficult to do so. Thankfully the class lasted one semester only. Now for the kicker … during DD’s sophomore year, this very same teacher pulled DD and her best friend aside one day and sang their praises to another teacher. My DD and her BF were in shock. This woman was obviously crazy, but continues to teach there … tenured, of course!</p>

<p>During DD’s junior year, her English AP teacher was a … well, she was a … royal PItA whose initials were B.B. which was perfect because those initials matched the first letter of a word we were fond of calling her! I’m angry now just thinking about her. She was so hateful to the kids. She spent lots of time talking about her personal life. For example, I knew that she had a boyfriend who committed suicide, had four cats and three jobs. I can’t make that stuff up. My DD told me because the teacher told them. DD chose not to take a directed studies (study hall) during her junior year, opting instead to take a seventh class. When the English teacher informed the AP class they had so much to cover in class that tests would need to be taken outside of class time (yes, you read that correctly!), my husband almost blew a gasket. He e-mailed the teacher and told her that was not acceptable as our DD didn’t have a directed studies period during the day and had an after-school job that often required her to be there by 3 p.m. The teacher wrote back a nasty e-mail and DH let her have it. In the end, she backed down … no tests outside of class time. When DD got a 35 on the English portion of her ACT, the teacher couldn’t contain herself and went shreiking down the hall to tell the principal, like she’d been the one taking the test. DD completed a huge project in that class and has asked for it back since her junior year. The teacher told her it was not “lost” but she couldn’t lay her hands on it right then. DD continued to ask into her senior year and up until graduation. She has still not returned it to DD and I’m sure she’ll never see it again.</p>

<p>DH has been wanting to write a letter for the past two years about that English teacher and I think I’ll go tell him right now to get started. I’ve got no more kids so I don’t have to worry about retaliation. Parents of wronged children everywhere, gather! Write your principals, write your school board members, write your newspaper editors. This has been very cathartic!</p>

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<p>“How about termination?”</p>

<p>Why? </p>

<p>Please explain? </p>

<p>I don’t care for a horse’s backside anymore than anyone else, but the 5 second solution always seems to be off with their heads! Why? </p>

<p>It just seems some here are always “just fire them” snap snap problem solved. Is that the best solution for everyone? everytime? How about your own situations? would that be the rememdy if it were you in that situation? Would you want someone to snap their fingers and you’re gone? What if you’re not even aware it’s happening?</p>

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<p>If the problem is an employee who continually provides exceptionally poor customer service, their errors have been pointed out to them several times, adequate career counseling has been provided (“we treat our customers (students and parents) with respect”), and the employee continues the same unacceptable behavior, yeah, I think termination is a valid choice. A truly egregiously bad move in front of a customer frequently results in termination on the first offense in the real world – giving a few chances in the school is generous. I don’t know why a teaching position should have any more of a guarantee of lifetime employment regardless of job performance than a worker in any other industry.</p>

<p>Your last paragraph is bizarre. I did not use terms like “everyone” or “every time.” Also, I work in private industry and am not protected by a union. My boss could, in fact, snap his fingers any old time and I would be gone. This is why I am highly motivated to do a good job and be indispensable at work. Any time my VP thinks they could make more money without my services, they would be violating their fiduciary responsibility to the owners of the company (and their moral obligation to my fellow employees) by keeping me on the payroll. That’s the way it is in the real world.</p>

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<p>You all are so polite! Sorry about that. Skirmish.</p>

<p>Anyway, I’m in the middle of a skirmish with a drama teacher-- not a coach. Coaches are like contractors, I know how to deal with them. This brilliant but melodramatic fellow’s latest tactic is to leave letters he is writing about S or letters I have sent to Head out on his desk for all the other students to read. Nice eh? </p>

<p>My son didn’t play the sychophant well enough and then got a huge $$$ from the school. Double whammy and pa-POW!</p>

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<p>“My boss could, in fact, snap his fingers any old time and I would be gone. This is why I am highly motivated to do a good job and be indispensable at work”</p>

<p>So it isn’t the work itself? Why would you work where your motivation comes from fear? Is that healthy? </p>

<p>I don’t disagree with your paragraph about due process. Due process is a far cry from “snap snap”. I don’t belong to a union either, but I do find jobs where unions exist often do to counterbalance administration. </p>

<p>“Any time my VP thinks they could make more money without my services, they would be violating their fiduciary responsibility to the owners of the company (and their moral obligation to my fellow employees) by keeping me on the payroll. That’s the way it is in the real world.”</p>

<p>You must either be very hard to replace or whistling past the graveyard. I hope it’s the former.</p>

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<p>I am pretty hard to replace. It’s taken me nearly a year to fully understand this job, and I was an expert in the general field before I started. Losing me would cost the company months in replacing me.</p>

<p>I apologize for the “bizarre” comment. It was uncalled for.</p>

<p>I don’t see how it can work any other way. Look at it like this, when someone in an organization doesn’t contribute, it makes everything more difficult. Someone has to get the work done, presumably it’s someone who has their own job to do. Managers and subordinates are both stressed when someone isn’t doing their job correctly. Sales can suffer, profits can suffer, morale can suffer, income can suffer, and ultimately, the stock value can decrease which can increase cost of capital and generally restrict the economic options of the company. It is a breach of fiduciary responsibility not to build the best possible team, train them right, and use them to make the organization achieve its goals. Why would you want to have someone in the organization that was like Wally in Dilbert? Everyone else pays for that person.</p>

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<p>Me too. Me too.</p>

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<p>Binx, my d. had a math teacher that was like that when she was in 9th grade – he had a reputation for becoming more abusive to students as the year went on. Like your d, mine had an A in the class – mainly because it was math and the guy graded on a curve and was such a terrible teacher that the curve was set very low. </p>

<p>My d. dealt with the insults and abuse by (1) openly and loudly challenging the teacher on it, and (2) cutting class as much as possible. As to #1, she would say things like, “What did you just call me, Mr. H? Did I hear you right? Did you call me a MORON? Why would you say that, Mr. H?”… or, if the comment had been directed at someone else, it would be “Why would you say something mean like that to Sarah? You must really have hurt her feelings when you say things like that!” This led to a huge fight between me and my ex (me: “good for d! I’m so proud of her for standing up to that bully!” ex: “d will get into trouble and never get into a good college!”) However, it did NOT lead to trouble at school… basically daughter started a talking-back trend in the classroom so pretty soon there was a cohort of students all doing the same thing; Mr. H kept right on doing his thing and the students kept right on answering back to him. </p>

<p>As to the class-cutting, my daughter was going to the school library to study instead of class. I got one call from the vice principal about it, and I said, “if it is Mr. H’s class that she is missing, don’t call again - I’d rather she be in the library than in that classroom listening to his abuse” and the vp said “understood”. Depite Northstarmom & Poetheart’s comments, inept and verbally abusive teachers are a fact of life at public schools – this guy was nearing retirement age, meaning that he definitely had tenure, and public school principals often don’t even have much of a say as to which teachers get assigned to their school, much less the ability to fire them. They know who the problem teachers are, but they have very little power to change things. There is an area where it is crossing the line, but scolding or verbally intimidating students probably isn’t that line, at least not for most public high schools. (Physical abuse or threats of physical abuse, or sexual harassment or overtures probably would be the type of reportable offenses that would more likely result in some action from higher-ups – in other words, something somebody might sue over). </p>

<p>Anyway - to Binx – my daughter’s approach might not work for your daughter – it is only to be undertaken by confident kids with strong egos. Laying low and keeping the A, and simply venting and joking to the parent may also be a good strategy for coping and staying sane. My kids have had plenty of teachers who were equally frustrating to them, without the teachers doing anything wrong other than being kind of nutty and inconsistent – and they settled for venting. </p>

<p>And to whoever has brought up workplace issues: I have encountered plenty of crazy and verbally abusive people in my lifetime whom I had to work with. Since I was a lawyer, I have a few tales to tell about bullying and misogynist judges, includilng one who did order me arrested for insisting on arguing my motion the day it was calendared. So yes, we adults DO have to deal with jerks in positions of power in the workplace. That doesn’t make it right – but as a parent I do think that there are some valuable life-skills that public school kids pick up when they have to deal with the sort of teachers Binx complains about. Both my kids figured out that if the teacher was fair in grading practices, then the personality issues could be withstood.</p>

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<p>Wisdom to accept the things we cannot; Courage to change the things we can; …Wisdom to know the difference! I love that saying.</p>

<p>I tend to agree w/ Northstarmom on this issue. This behavior should not be tolerated. Are there bullies in the world? Certainly. Do we need to learn to navigate them? Of course. BUT, with no action, we tend to condone the behavior. It will not change. If enough parents (and possibly students) took the time to express their concern, changes might be possible. One parent complaining to a principal will probably be viewed as a bother. Several parents complaining is an inconvenience. But if the number is large enough, I would hope any decent principal (or boss) would take note, and take action. It does not necessarily need to be an organized effort. I think a polite, concerned comment is valid. </p>

<p>Personally, I probably would make the effort after my child (or children) have graduated. I know my children would be embarrassed, and would rather deal with the situation themselves. I think it does help build their character, and teach invaluable lessons for them to handle future situations. I would also be fearful of possible outcomes. Why make a bad situtation worse for them? However, I see less harm, and hopefully potential good, in addressing the issue afterward. If a parent expresses concern after the fact, and shares the hope that future students do not have to deal with the same unacceptable behaviors, perhaps it will be viewed more as constructive criticism, and less as a reactionary attack against the status quo. </p>

<p>Typically when a problem no longer faces us, we move on to other issues at hand, and forget about the former issues. (Although from other posts, it appears that a a good or bad teacher is rarely forgotten!). I think it is worth saying something. Timing is another matter.</p>

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<p>calmom - I applaud your D! I would definitely support my D if she decided to say something bold or assertive, as long as it wasn’t rude or insubordinate. (I will not be inclined to intervene myself unless I feel the situation has become dangerous or threatening in some way. At this point it is merely uncomfortable.) She does have a teacher who regularly “burns” (her word) people in the class, for which the whole class is comfortable tossing insults back. A game, I guess, where everyone has a thick skin and a sense of humor. I’m guessing the teacher referenced in this thread, though, would be too intimidating on most days; no humor in evidence. D would be cowed. There are a few days each month, though, where D becomes another animal, and I wouldn’t put anything past her. ;)</p>

<p>I am an activist by nature, kjofkw, and it’s hard to sit idly by. My passive-agressive therapy at this stage is to name all the bad guys in my yet-unpublished novels after those who have brought grief to my family members. I also daydream about starting a scholarship fund at my D’s school for students whose parents aren’t teachers (and therefore seldom get nominated for anything.) But that’s another thread.</p>

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<p>Calmom–Wow. I can’t imagine very many high school kids having the ability to do that. I am in awe of your daughter!</p>

<p>Binx, it is a fine line for our daughters to walk, learning to be bold and assertive yet not rude. That is an issue for one of my daughters right now-- Learning to express herself (which I applaud), yet without crossing the line into obnoxiousness. (Is that even possible?)</p>