<p>Hello all,
I am currently in Grinnell college and looking for a transfer. Basically, I can either stay in Grinnell or go to Ecole polytechnique federale de Lausanne, I am thinking about studying applied mathematics and I am a bit concerned that a degree in math from a liberal arts college may be too general and not specific enough.</p>
<p>I would like some advice.</p>
<p>Thank you in advance.</p>
<p>A small LAC, unfortunately, is probably not going to be a very good option for a mathematics major, especially for someone who wants something specific and wants to go to graduate school. What do you want to do with your degree? If you want to do graduate school, you ought to explore some graduate level courses. You could study abroad or something to make up for the lack of course offerings at Grinnell? Many colleges in the US offer a visiting student program too–including Harvard, Yale and Chicago–which could help.</p>
<p>I’m sure you can do very well at Grinnell, but EPFL is in the league of MIT so it’s not really a contest, as long as you can speak the language.</p>
<p>I don’t know anything about the Swiss institute so can’t comment. What do you want to do with your math degree? If you stay, investigate abroad program Budapest Semesters in Math which is well regarded.</p>
<p>EPFL is a top-level school, though I don’t know what admissions are like for undergrad. (Also, grad courses are in English, but I’m not sure about undergrad.) However, the European system is very different than in the US. You might have to start from the beginning of the program, and the bachelor’s degree is a 3 year degree. You usually go on to get a 2 years master’s degree and then move on to working with a professor directly for a PhD (which then involves no coursework). If you plan to get your PhD in the US (probably best if you want to end up working in the US), the swap back can be difficult. You might have to get your master’s degree there before going to a US PhD program to get the required background/ experience (or at least that’s possible in sciences; I’m not as familiar with math programs).</p>
<p>Basically, I’m trying to make sure you’ve thought of all of the implications. Why are these the only two options that you are considering? If you are worried about the strength of your math program, why not transfer to a US institution with a larger/stronger math program?</p>
<p>Thank you all for your responses. There are many applications of math and I really cannot choose one right now (perhaps financial math- actuarial science …). Transfer is a very uncertain option; not only is it very hard to be accepted as a transfering student, but even if I get accepted to a different school that has applied math majors, I will probably not receive financial aid.
I took a semester off and applied to EPFL in which I got in, and now, I can either go back to grinnell or restart a math program at EPFL.</p>
<p>Are you a US student, or are you an international student? If you are international, EPFL would probably be a better option than Grinnell. Even the best US LACs aren’t always that well recognized out of the country.</p>
<p>If you are a US student, Grinnell may get you where you want to go (if it is in the US) better than EPFL, again simply because of the general recognition factor.</p>
<p>In either case, there is nothing wrong with picking up the phone, calling your Grinnell professors, and having a chat about your concerns about your longer-term future career prospects.</p>
<p>I am an international student, but still, I would prefer to go to graduate school in the US. Do you think it would be better for me to stay in Grinnell ?</p>
<p>Look at the websites of the graduate programs that you are interested in. See where the professors are from. If there is any information about the graduate students, check that out too.</p>
<p>Good graduate programs in the US accept students from all over the world. Grad admission is based much more on any research you might have done as an undergrad, your GPA in coursework related to the field you will be pursuing in grad school, letters from your instructors, and your own statement of purpose. Don’t stay at Grinnell just because you think a US degree is automatically better for grad admissions here.</p>
<p>Why do you think you want to go to grad school in the US? In many fields of study, excellent grad programs can be found in lots of countries. A European degree may open up opportunities that you won’t really have with a degree from an LAC, no matter how good that place is.</p>
<p>Consult the math department at Grinnell. Find out where past students went for a PhD in Math, how often the department sends students to “top 20-30” programs, etc. There are some things specific to math PhDs.</p>
<p>Grinnell is among one of the best LACs for sending students to Grad School.
If your goal is to begin a PhD right after undergrad, I don’t think transferring is necessary - you will take your general math degree and specialize in something in your PhD work.</p>
<p><a href=“https://www.grinnell.edu/sites/default/files/documents/phdprodf2010.pdf”>https://www.grinnell.edu/sites/default/files/documents/phdprodf2010.pdf</a></p>
<p>Grinnell is #7 in general PhD productivity respective to size “per capita” student or something</p>
<p>However, I can’t seem to find any specific information on their math degrees. The biggest thing that PhD admissions are looking for is research experience, something that isn’t as widely available at LACs than at larger universities. Nonetheless, EPFL is very highly regarded in Switzerland and the rest of Europe and I am sure that graduating from there would still open many doors for you. Grinnell would be a better option if you wish to stay in America for grad school, EPFL if you decide to go to Europe. Both will give you room to pursue advanced math degrees.</p>
<h1>of math PhDs received by Grinnell alums in: 2003 - 3; 2004 - 1; 2008 - 2; 2009 - 1; 2010 - 3; 2011 - 1; 2012 -1.</h1>
<p>To find out the rough rate, divide total PhDs awarded by the number of math degrees awarded by Grinnell during 1997-2007. I’m not sure if that’s accurate, but it should give you a rough idea. Reed seems to have a higher rate, with at least 1 PhD awarded every year and sometimes as many as 7.</p>
<p>I won’t necessarily enroll in a phd, I may choose a different program.
Do you have any idea about the reputation of epfl in the US ? Would you say that grinnell is more recognized ?
Thank you for your responses. </p>
<p>mpolmpol -</p>
<p>Math has a lot of special issues. Run a search for b@r!um and find some of her comments about math education. She’s one of the experts on that issue. If you have the patience to do so, make enough posts in different forums here until you hit the minimum to send a PM (I think you need at least 15), and send her a PM. She will have useful ideas for you about where it would be best for you to complete your undergrad math coursework.</p>
<p>EPFL offers a three-year one subject degree. If OP is genuinely interested in applied math as opposed to pure math then he should go to EPFL. For people in the know, EPFL doesn’t have as good a reputation as ETHZ, at least in physics. Outside of academics, people in the US know absolutely nothing about either. The only drawback to EPFL is that it’s a train ride away from Lausanne centre ville and student housing. My impression of Swiss universities was favorable from having studied French language and civilization in nearby Neuchâtel. However, I knew someone who transferred from EPFL in physics to an American LAC because his physicist father moved back to the US from CERN.</p>
<p>I assume OP will receive no credit from EPFL for study at Grinnell and be starting as a first year student. I would contact Grinnell and say that you want to take a year off and study abroad. If OP likes EPFL, he can choose to stay and if not just go back to Grinnell and apply to get math/CS credit for a year away.</p>
<p>Grinnell, Iowa or Lausanne, Switzerland? Some choice! </p>
<p>EPFL doesn’t have the history of ETH, but I don’t think it would really be disadvantageous to study at EPFL over ETH, especially at the bachelor’s level. From my experience in Germany in robotics, at least, they were seen as fairly on par in terms of producing quality students.</p>
<p>“A small LAC, unfortunately, is probably not going to be a very good option for a mathematics major” What rubbish! Some have very popular math departments. Williams, for example, awarded over 50 math degrees last year. However, Grinnell may only teach certain advanced courses every other year as do many LAC’s. As long as OP is flexible with what aspects of math to learn he won’t run out of curriculum. Many math majors take advanced courses in physics, economics and CS as well.</p>
<p>“EPFL is in the league of MIT, so it’s not really a contest,” - Ha! - not even close to MIT. There’s never been a nobel prize from EPFL. It’s more like an RPI. </p>
<p>It’s unclear what program at EPFL OP wants to enter. There’s math but not applied math until a masters degree. It also appears most of the course instruction is in French for math undergrad:</p>
<p><a href=“http://sb.epfl.ch/page-42161-en.html”>http://sb.epfl.ch/page-42161-en.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://sb.epfl.ch/page-42163-en.html”>http://sb.epfl.ch/page-42163-en.html</a></p>
<p>Just from course titles, EPFL teaches what gets taught in many US universities. If OP just wants to transfer to a university from Grinnell, EPFL may not be the best option as it’s difficult to switch between American and European educational systems.</p>
<p>It’s not the best option for a math major because it is recommended that one enroll in graduate level courses as an undergrad if one intends to go for a PhD at a top school. If you want to do something else, small LACs are just fine, maybe even better.</p>
<p>I still can’t figure out which program is better, what a dilemma ! Thank you for your responses</p>
<p>OP:</p>
<p>I was an undergraduate math major that went on for a physics Ph.D. I looked at the detailed descriptions of EPFL’s math courses in the second and third years as compared to Grinnell’s. I think that unless there is some factor other than math that draws you to Grinnell, you should go to EPFL. The EPFL math curriculum appears to be more comprehensive and extensive. It also appears more theoretical at the higher levels. However, there’s a difference in teaching methods. Grinnell seems about average for an LAC in math - neither strong nor weak. The choice is a question of individual preference and learning styles.</p>