Learning the subjects that are the building blocks of knowledge is useful for all citizens. But if you want to opt your kid out of those higher order skills, by all means, do so. Leaves more space for the rest of them. Group dynamics is psychology–maybe that’s the elective for you.
My kids are doing ok with group projects right now. Mostly because d19 is in advanced classes with most of her friends and usually gets to choose her groups. They are all hard workers who want good grades. Occasionally she doesn’t get to choose her groups but those are usually smaller assignments and at least lost of the other kids in the group care enough. Middle school was tougher for her.
My younger is in middle school (6th grader) but not minding the group projects much so far. She prefers when she gets a partner or group that let her make most of the decisions and even do most of the work. She dislikes depending on others and likes her high grades. Kids seem to like working with her because they know she will help them get a good grade (they typically help with the assignment, but she is definitely the one in charge). Still, a recent option to work in a group or individually was a no brainer. Ultimately, she is an introvert and is really happy not to have to work with anyone else for once this year.
@garland Wow you teach your students straw man techniques like that?
Listen there are skills that give all workers an advantage in the coming years and being able to truly collaborate is one of them. Working in a team, giving constructive criticism, receiving criticism and producing something better than any one individual can produce alone is a skill that companies will value and those kids will advance and be more successful. I think it’s an antiquated attitude to ignore this and will only disadvantage your kids later in life. Like you point out regarding writing garland the kids you get that write well are more successful and there are plenty of kids that ignore writing in high school to their detriment. Collaboration is a skill like writing that most kids will need in the new workplace.
My DD always did the biggest part of the group projects. This is the way group projects work in school.
I for one never learned a single thing from doing group projects with students who didn’t do any work. I take that back–I did learn one thing. Avoid group projects at all costs. Nothing great ever came out of a committee with non-committed members.
It is much easier to work in a group when the other members of the group are mature adults who share goals. This does not describe most groups of middle-school students and high-school students. The skills learned, if any, in trying to corral a recalcitrant middle-school group member might conceivably be useful in adulthood, working with one’s own pre-teen or early teen. But they are not needed in my section of the world of work.
I agree 100% with garland.
Well I’m speaking from the point of view of high school where kids learn to become adults and some technically are.
As for middle school and before - I prefer after school activities or things that the kids are self selected and have a desire to do so like Odyssey of the Mind/Destination Imagination, National History Day, etc. As a long time coach of OOTM I’ve witnessed how kids have grown from 3rd graders to 8th graders and the ability to navigate working in a team and truly collaborating. It makes the difference from losing in Regionals to going to World Finals.
Groups that are self-selected and highly motivated do still benefit from learning teamwork. That is the category of team that Dolemite is writing about in #86. That is the kind of team I work in. That is really different from teacher-assigned teams with students who are not interested.
Self selected members of a team with common goals are world’s apart from assigned groups by a teacher.
@dolomite–not strawman at all. You are maintaining that they need to concentrate on work-readiness skills in subject classes, and i am claiming that they need to concentrate on the knowledge and skills those subject classes are meant to be developing…And that in a finite world, one is distracting from the other. Workplace readiness is a diversion from the actual subjects. So teach it elsewhere. Like at work.
And it was you who questioned the necessity of subject classes like four years of English , and sciences. Talking about straw man arguments.
And yes, we discuss logical fallacies a lot in my classes. I think that sort of critical thinking is not emphasized enough in education as it is, so we need to spend a lot of time at it. I think the psychodynamics of group projects are a diversion from that hard work.
Just smile and nod.
This topic just came up for my D in her first year at college. I thought we were done with group projects! I guess there could be four more years!
I didn’t read every single post, and I think both “sides” have some validity. But one point I’d like to make is NO teacher has ever TAUGHT the collaboration skills or techniques, psychology, what have you. They just throw the project out to the group and let fly. I, as parent, have done a lot of the actual TEACHING necessary for “managing” groups of people, because like many of the above posters, it’s my kid who gets left holding the bag, like the C+ she and partner got on a project where the partner totally blew it off.
So here I am again, counseling her how to go to her instructor and make a good case for getting a better grade than her partner. Really, based on the record, it’s quite obvious who did what and who did not contribute, but we’ll brush that aside and D will diplomatically present a case for a slight increase in grade.
Teachers, if you’re trying to teach collaboration, TEACH IT for heavens sake. Do you just give a first grader a book and let them figure out how to read it?
And realistically, even with the best of skills (which most students do not have), one cannot force other people to participate and contribute. It’s a two way street and failure of collaboration does not always rest equally on the parties. Success in “managing” people is a talent as well as a skill. Training can bring improvement but skill levels will still vary. Even with lessons, we will not all become Yo Yo Ma.
We had group projects in college. To be honest, they were far less a PITA than the MS/HS ones. We were more easily able to schedule time to work on the projects during the day…when we were all on campus anyway.