Aside from the fact that Arabs does not equal Muslim, there are many countries which rank lower on the social index scale than Saudi Arabia. For instance most of Africa, China and Russia.
http://www.socialprogressimperative.org/data/spi#data_table/countries/com4/dim1,com4,dim2,dim3
If covering one’s hair was so “freeing”, then non-Muslim women would be doing it also. But other than a hat for sun protection, almost no women other than Muslims cover their heads. Western women who have choice in the matter choose not to cover their hair but glory in beautiful hair, enjoying their hair, not covering it up because some man told them to.
Arab world: Syria casualties estimated from 200-300,000; Iraq around 40,000 since the US withdrawal (per the IBC project), Libya estimates from 3 years ago were 25-30,000 (not counting, for example, the 21 Christians beheaded now, etc.). That’s the surface, not counting deaths in Egypt, smaller numbers in Bahrain, etc. I know that these are Arab on Arab, almost all Muslim on Muslim, but my point was that the region is absurdly violent and it clearly is. All these deaths matter to me but in the Arab world the only ones that matter are the ones caused by Christians or Jews, especially any caused by Jews.
Nuns often choose to wear a full head covering. Not as frequently as 20 years ago, but most people in the Western culture would never dream of criticizing a nun for choosing to cover her hair. (I have a great photo of my aunt with full head to toe habit playing soccer, with her skirt streaming behind her as she runs downfield kicking the ball.)
The outfits worn by nuns are in the same family as uniforms worn by priests, or other members of organized groups. One should NOT compare religious leaders with their followers. Catholic women do not adopt the nuns’ head covers.
There is NO analogy with the imposition of wearing a hijab, or tge more egregious versions of the veils.
I don’t think the extent to which females will parade around half dressed says much about their autonomy or " freedom"
Many people cover their heads/ hair at certain times.
Brides may wear veils, Jewish men and women cover their head as do the Amish & Mennonites.
Nuns don’t have “followers”, as I understand it. They assume the veil as a chosen sacrifice they view as a gift and sign of commitment. a couple of people I know who are Muslim and wear head coverings have described their decision in much the same way.
Edited to add: ziggi, you write of the “imposition of wearing a hijab”. For many women it is an imposition, but it’s a huge stretch for you to assume it is always an imposition.
In Istanbul, for instance, where there don’t seem to be religious police and where society is much more open than say, Saudi Arabia, the women seem very evenly split. Many cover their heads, many chose not to. And many young women cover their heads in brightly colored cheerful scarves so that a group of young Muslim women look like a patch of dancing flowers.
“If covering one’s hair was so “freeing”, then non-Muslim women would be doing it also.”
Despite not believing in hijab, I still believe freedom lies in the CHOICE women make. I am free if I chose not to wear hijab. I am also free if I chose to wear it. As long as I have the choice,that makes me a free woman.
Sadly I think in many Muslim societies and families the women do not have a real choice. Particularly since they aren’t treated as equals of men.
In that case yes. Hijab is socially expected to be worn by women. I was just merely objecting to the idea that hijab in itself is oppressive.
I noted that many married Orthodox Jewish women wear wigs. These aren’t to prevent observing her beauty or to hide it. It’s common for the wigs to be as attractive as possible. The point is to create a barrier in her mind, a sense of privacy that part of her, the real her, is reserved and separated from the world. This has a superficial similarity to certain Muslim headcoverings, but obviously not others.
The point of the hijab wayy before islam, was protection from the oppressive heat of the deserts of Arabia. Even men wear head coverings until now in Saudi Arabia. The only difference is that nowadays, some countries view women as property that cannot be seen, heard, or spoken to.
It’s also worth noting that in many arab countries, women are free to wear hijab and are also free to wear shorts.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by “many Arab countries” because I’m not sure I can name any. If you’re talking about UAE, yes there are women who do not wear hijabs or burkas or dress extremely conservatively. However, these women are mostly wealthy foreigners in Dubai and Abu Dhabi who aren’t really part f the culture there. On the outside, life in the UAE might appear good and tolerable especially compared to the other countries in that region, but if you look closely at it, that is only the case for wealthy foreigners. Despite the UAE spending billions of dollars to glamorize itself, husbands are legally allowed to beat women. There are no lea gal consequences to marital rape, and those who report rape as witnesses can be imprisoned. In Turkey, the president just recently made headlines by saying “women are not equal to men”. To suggest that women are not at worst extremely subjugated and at best second class citizens in the Arab world either suggests a fundamental lack of awareness or the typical American propensity to grade the Arab world on a curve.
Nuns don't have "followers", as I understand it. They assume the veil as a chosen sacrifice they view as a gift and sign of commitment. a couple of people I know who are Muslim and wear head coverings have described their decision in much the same way.
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Edited to add: ziggi, you write of the “imposition of wearing a hijab”. For many women it is an imposition, but it’s a huge stretch for you to assume it is always an imposition.<<<
I wrote about religious leaders. Feel free to play semantics regarding the position of nuns in the clergy. It was pretty clear a statement.
As far ar the wearing of the hijab not being an imposition and a directive issued by zealots and misguided clerics … feel free to call it a stretch. I’ll stick to watching the countless reports in the media, and let you think it is the figment of one’s fertile imagination. All I need to do is to tune in recent reports from London to Brussels to the streets of … Syria.
A stretch indeed!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1122460/Syrian-woman-secretly-films-life-Raqqa-ISIS.html
Lergnom,
At some point in history, while the so-called violent arabs were going through the golden age of islam, europe was plunged into one of its dark ages.
During that golden age, and before arabs were heavily engrossed in religious texts, the world’s first university was built in morocco. Many of the medical and surgical inventions still used today were invented that time. Algebra, optics, the first trial to invent a plane etc…
My point is, every culture in the world has become barbaric at some point in history. Long ago, the europeans thought the black death was a punishment from god and began to whip themselves for foorgiveness. The church was executing everyone who believed in science.
At that time, the arabs were busy inventing and researching medicines. It just so happens that the roles are reversed now.
@couplemoreweeks I’m sorry, but when did I say women are NOT treated as second class citizens? I was only talking about the head covering and women’s clothing. By law, women in the arab world are not protected. They just have to be lucky to be born into an open minded family.
Women can wear bikinis in the streets in lebanon, but if a woman is raped she is forced to marry her rapist. I don’t object to you.
@Ghfdw17
You are completely accurate about the fact that in the Middle Ages, Christian fundamentalism was barbaric. One can only point to the Crusades, the Inquisition, or the Witch Hunts. That being said, I don’t understand how referencing that adds anything to your argument because 500 years ago, I would be just as adamant as a critic about Christianity as I am currently of Islam. But you also have to note that we live in a completely different world now than we did then. Five hundred years ago, one press of a button could not exterminate entire populations. That’s why I’m not getting the point you are trying to make.
^^yet, you not see a movement by Europeans to revert to the dark Middle Ages! In a way, the listed discoveries and testaments of a clearly advanced civilization makes the desire to turn the clock back a millennium over a Muslim realm even harder to understand.
@couplemoreweeks My point is that just because arabs/muslims are going through their own dark age it doesn’t mean that their religion is to blame. Because at some point in history every religion went through such conflicts.
@Ghfdw17
Sorry, I guess I originally misinterpreted your argument that the hijab isn’t inherently oppressive. But on that I would still disagree with you. If we put aside the numerous women who are forced to wear hijabs against there will and leave the women who choose to, the line between freedom of choice and participating in a culture that stigmatizes women is very murky. I mean if people are taught from an early age that being pious or modest means hiding your body and that there is something wrong with exploring your femininity, and then later choosing to wear a hijab, I still find that oppressive. If not wearing a hijab would elicit much judgement and women are taught that men are superior from an early age, that is oppression. So thoihh I understand that many Muslims, especially in Europe and the United States aren’t forced to wear hijabs and do t by choice, I still find it hard to find a balance between personal religious choice and oppression.