Gunman kills three in Chapel Hill

Parent Cafe
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"It may seem like an irrational leap, but what people need to understand is that this attack is hitting the Muslim community hard. In Deah, we all see our brothers and sons. In Yusor and Ruzan, we see our sisters and daughters… Frankly, in all of them, I see myself. And that’s a scary thing. Every Muslim person I know is hugging their family members a little closer and whispering to themselves “that could have been me”.

Yes, it is an irrational leap. Unless you happened to live in that apartment complex, it’s not rational to think that it could have been you. If every time a white middle aged woman was murdered for any reason, I hugged my family closer, whispering, “It could have been me,” I would spend my life in fear, hugging my family. If these young people were even murdered because someone had a grudge against Muslims, that is pretty rare–in this country. What is far more common, times many thousand, is violence against Muslims by other Muslims. I don’t mean to seem harsh, but to live your life in fear because of one attack, is completely crazy. Look at the totality of the things that happen to people, and what are your particular risks, and I highly doubt it would be related to something like this.

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Of course it is not something to commit murder over, but lack of sufficient parking can cause tremendous stress and conflict for some people. If you’ve ever lived in a high-density, under-parked area, you know what I’m talking about. Or tried last-minute holiday shopping at a packed mall. I have seen screaming fights break out over spots, and have heard about neighbors having other neighbors’ cars towed.

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Cheers and best to you, @marshmallowpop.

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It can be a hate crime without being terrorism.

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Several things from local news reports:

First, to correct what I said earlier, both women were NC State students. One of them would have started dental school at UNC in the fall with her husband, also murdered.

All three grew up in Raleigh and were well-loved by their classmates and teachers. They were generous, happy, peace-loving people. I think I would have enjoyed being around them and feeling their enthusiasm for life.

The Islamic Center with which they were affiliated is holding a service open to the public. The vigil at UNC last night drew thousands, and there is a vigil at NC State tonight. The family is being surrounded with love by people of all faiths.

Several comments:

This comes right after the death of Dean Smith, a man who was beloved for his work for racial equality and concern for his fellow human beings whatever their situation. For the UNC community, this has been a particularly difficult week.

The accused murderer has described himself as an atheist, and more particularly as an anti-theist. He has ranted about religion in general, including Islam. He is known as an angry man who confronted neighbors about parking, and he showed up at the door of the murdered couple with a gun on several occasions. His soon-to-be divorced wife claims that he didn’t have any hatred toward any particular group of people. Will a DA try to, or be able to, prove that he was motivated to kill the victims specifically because of their religion? I don’t know.

The Chapel Hill police are well-known for being progressive and sensitive to differences of gender, race, sexual orientation, religion, and disability. I’m sure that they are leaving no stone unturned to get evidence concerning whether this would qualify legally as a hate crime.

These murders are getting international attention. That Chapel Hill, a progressive community with so many well-educated people who support interfaith understanding, would in any way be associated world-wide with the murder of three Muslim students, is so very ironic and unfortunate.

What is more unfortunate, however, is that an act of evil has taken away three beloved family members and has deprived the world of bright, caring young people who could have made a difference in the lives of many others.

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If this man was in the habit of angrily confronting neighbors while armed, I am surprised that no one ever called the police to report him. He should not have been allowed to own or carry a weapon if he was guilty of threatening people.

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This is another example of the “no true Scotsman” fallacy.

I don’t believe in jumping to conclusions, but I do think we should demand even-handedness in jumping to conclusions (to mix metaphors): if we are going to assume that every crime committed by a Muslim is terrorism, perhaps we should assume that every crime committed against a Muslim is a hate crime.

Who kills three people over a parking dispute?

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“Who kills three people over a parking dispute?”

This is who kills three people over a parking dispute, someone who, “Is known as an angry man who confronted neighbors about parking, and he showed up at the door of the murdered couple with a gun on several occasions”

I don’t understand why the police aren’t called for something like this, and that he still possesses his gun. First time someone shows up at my door with a gun, yelling, and I’m on the phone calling the police. If this doesn’t stop it, believe me, I’m not getting into disputes with him. I’m moving, and if I can’t, he can have whatever parking spot he wants. I stay away from crazy, and if he can’t be removed legally, then I will remove myself. It sounds like he’d been harassing several other neighbors, so I don’t know why this was tolerated. Were the police called, and they did nothing? Were there complaints against him that were ignored? If he had just shot his soon to be ex-wife instead, which is FAR more typical, this wouldn’t even have been news. It makes me wonder if she was very good at placating him. She is still defending him, and I wonder if she will feel safe to tell the truth about him, when he is on death row.

I wonder if he will avoid death row with a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia. So many of these nutcases seem to follow the same pattern. Anger, ranting and raving, everyone knew they were a danger, but nobody did anything about it, until they started shooting in the theatre (school, restaurant, church, post office, workplace, fill in the blank).

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I’m going to guess that most murders are committed for even less rational reasons. Like, he looked at me funny, I got sick of her voice, he dissed me, he was on my turf…

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More news: Neighbors say that the suspect was angry at everyone and that there was a neighborhood meeting before the shooting to discuss his aggression and people’s fears for their safety. No one has said if the police were involved. I think, based on this, it will be quite difficult to prove that he killed the three students because they were Muslim.

Who kills people over a parking dispute anyway? The same kind of irrational, anger-filled person who, in a fit of rage, kills someone because he/she is Muslim/Christian/female/gay/playing music “too loudly”/etc.

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What a tragedy. Makes you wonder about the wife. Does it make it any less tragic if it was over a bad temper vs being a racist?

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It sounds like he hated everybody. I don’t know why people have to kill others in order to get arrested. Violent, aggressive, threatening behavior that can’t be controlled should be enough to do something about a person like this. Why do we have to wait until they murder innocent people?

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He may have hated a lot of people, and threatened a lot of people, but the people he actually did kill included two women who (as I understand it) wore distinctive Muslim garb. It’s hardly farfetched to think this had something to do with his ultimate choice of victims. Certainly, it should be part of the investigation.

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Let me add that I’m bemused by the idea that it is somehow defending this guy to say that he’d kill you (and your wife and sister) over a parking space, but not over your religion.

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Note that the first degree murder charges that the suspect is facing carry in North Carolina a penalty of death or life imprisonment without parole. Whether labeled as a “hate crime” or not, he is already facing the severest possible penalties.

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More heartbreak. Yusor Abu-Salha, the young married woman, recorded a conversation with a former teacher for the StoryCorps project last summer.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/02/12/385714242/were-all-one-chapel-hill-shooting-victim-said-in-storycorps-talk?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20150212

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Thank you for that, because I was going to preface my comment by saying I don’t know what is at stake by labeling this crime a “hate crime” or not. But either way, I find it insulting to suggest that this guy shot 3 people (including 2 women) in the head over a parking dispute and it had nothing to do with their religion or culture.

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Kind of off base for you to actually think anyone is defending this guy, Hunt, for suggesting the possibility that he didn’t kill them just because they were Muslim. Really, that is defending him?? Maybe it’s just worth waiting until he facts come out.

Or perhaps it would be better for all Muslim women to hide in their houses, forget not looking at people while they drive, but don’t drive at all? It’s possible that one guy pulled the trigger particularly because these young people were identifiable as Muslims, therefore all Muslims must now live in fear because it could have been them?

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The furtherest “South” I’ve lived is No. VA, so I apologize if this is a stereotype, but I imagine that it must be difficult to be an atheist in the South. If so, the murderer may have felt disaffected, in addition to his anger issues and prejudices.

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Perhaps we should stop trying to find rhyme or reason in a senseless and brutal crime. Rational people might never understand his motives. Some people are just evil.