Hallowed Grounds changes delayed; new student committee

sa0209 · August 12, 2013, 11:09pm

(From the student government website)

We are happy to announce that the proposed changes to Hallowed Grounds have been put on hold. Thank you everyone who spent time writing letters, speaking with administrators, or signing petitions. The collective concerns that we expressed were taken into account, and ORCSA has decided to form a new student committee to determine the future of the space. We strongly encourage students who care about Hallowed Grounds, as well as the future Student Activities Center and RSO Advising Center, to apply to this committee. The application is on blueprint. Below is an explanation from ORCSA of the committee’s charge.

Charge for the Committee on Activities and Advising Centers

Two significant factors have changed the relationship between the University and student groups in recent years. First, the number of participants in student organizations has grown markedly along with the intensity of their involvement. At the same time, the University’s approach to students organizations and their leaders has evolved, with growing opportunities for students to develop skills in leadership, collaboration and innovation; increased investment of staff time; and a focus on successful results that enrich campus life.

This requires a constant re-evaluation of how staff and students engage with one another. Based on conversations with student leaders and staff over several years, along with an analysis of best practices at universities and other organizations, we have increased efforts to bring students and staff together in comfortable settings that enhance student access to staff members and improve the quality of discussion.

To achieve that, the University is creating a Student Activities Center and a Student Advising Center in the Reynolds Club, a key hub for student involvement. Early responses to these plans have made it clear how important spaces in the Reynolds Club are to our students, so we are seeking the ideas and advice of a broad spectrum of student leaders, members of the student body, and additional University representatives to help inform the design of these two new centers in a way that best meets all our objectives.

During the summer and fall quarters of 2013, this committee will be charged with:

 Examining the current use of the Hallowed Grounds caf

phuriku · August 13, 2013, 7:02am

I suspected this was going to happen.

Despite the incessant complaints about administration here (mostly by bleeding-heart activists and 1 particular person who has recently chosen to hate everything about the Zimmer administration due to UChicago’s recent switch to modern architecture), the University has actually improved its relationship with students drastically, and has been responding to issues much more appropriately than it did in the past. Yes, the administration’s plan to move into Hallowed Grounds was a silly idea, but the administration’s prompt response to student complaints is a sign that it shows its students a great amount of respect.

kaukauna · August 13, 2013, 9:33am

Yes, this is a good decision, I think. Sometimes administrations and leaders have to decide and go. This is not one of those situations. There was no pressing safety or other issue here. It is a good sign that the administration is able to stop and admit maybe there’s a better way.

Cue7 · August 13, 2013, 10:16am

Phuriku said:

“the University has actually improved its relationship with students drastically, and has been responding to issues much more appropriately than it did in the past.”

The University’s administration now is better than it was in the past, but that really doesn’t say much. The UChicago administration has a very spotty past. The fact the admin has backtracked on a needlessly incendiary initial decision does not instill me with confidence.

Instead, I’ll adopt a wait-and-see attitude. The past few weeks of debate, though, re-generated feelings I remember all too well while dealing with the admin as a UChicago student: cautiousness and skepticism. Again, stating the University has “actually improved” its relationships with students really does not say much.

Phuriku also said:

“Yes, the administration’s plan to move into Hallowed Grounds was a silly idea, but the administration’s prompt response to student complaints is a sign that it shows its students a great amount of respect.”

The fact the admin even came up with this shoddy idea in the first place demonstrates that it is still not in touch with the student body. Hopefully this will improve in the future, but the admin’s connection to student concerns is still very much a work in progress.

On a related note, UChicago recently hired a new Dean of Students, Michelle Rasmussen.

[Dean</a> of the Undergraduate College Michele Rasmussen Accepts Dean Post at the University of Chicago : Inside Bryn Mawr](<a href=“Log In ‹ Inside Bryn Mawr — WordPress”>Log In ‹ Inside Bryn Mawr — WordPress)

I know a bunch of recent Bryn Mawr alums, and when asked about Rasmussen, they recalled knowing her around campus as “Rasputin.” This also does not induce confidence.

Overall, hopefully student-admin relations at UChicago will improve. Given they were at a nadir ~12 years ago, I imagine they will, but make no mistake, the low point in the past was bad.

Generally speaking, unlike Phuriku, who seems to think that the days of UChicago challenging Harvard or Stanford are upon us, I’m much less bullish about the school. I think the College still provides a wonderful education, but there are systemic, troubling problems that are still very much present. The Hallowed Ground proceedings are one example of this. Fund-raising issues, a lack of a large footprint across major disciplines (STEM especially), are also worrisome, but those are topics for another thread.

JHS · August 13, 2013, 1:45pm

Two grace notes, facing in opposite directions:

<ol>
<li>It is certainly wrong to imply that Chicago has “[f]und-raising issues, [and] a lack of a large footprint across major disciplines (STEM especially)”. Its current fundraising seems admirable, certainly more than adequate. And its STEM issues are limited to engineering. It has quite a large footprint in Science and Math, and with its association with Argonne not such a bad position in Tech.</li>
<li>The cynical among us will note that the formal committee charge essentially puts the rabbit in the hat: the committee is to decide “how best to support student group advising in [the Hallowed Grounds] space and throughout the Reynolds Club,” it will look at other space in the Reynolds Club to determine “how they can best be used by students and staff as part of the creation of these two centers,” and it must advise on design and furnishing that will “enrich student-staff meetings, both formal and informal.” There is also the fundamental premise that with increased student involvement and intensity in student organizations comes “increased staff time” and a “focus on successful results.” Also, the university seems to see it as a staff function to provide “growing opportunities for students to develop skills in leadership, collaboration, and innovation.”</li>
</ol>

The new student committee does not have any ex officio representation from Hallowed Grounds or student government, and the call for applications signals a clear intention to make certain the committee is balanced with representation for “students who care about . . . the future Student Activities Center and RSO Advising Center.”

In other words, staff interaction with students (some of them), not the quality of students’ interactions with each other, remains very much the central focus of this planning. One could read that press release and think that what has happened is essentially a two-month delay during which some hand-picked students will be allowed to express an opinion on how the cubicles should be arranged in the Hallowed Grounds space.

Cue7 · August 13, 2013, 1:56pm

JHS:

Re your point #1, that all depends on your point of comparison. From what I’ve read from Phuriku, who is very bullish about UChicago’s standing, its direct comparators would be Harvard and Stanford. In this light, I think UChicago still has fundraising issues and a smaller STEM footprint.

Now, if we compare UChicago to NU, WUSTL, etc., that’s a very different story. These schools are much more comparable on the fundraising, STEM front, etc.

unalove · August 13, 2013, 11:12pm

death by committee! the best kind of death there is!

Speaking as somebody partial to Uncle Joe’s/Hallowed Grounds, it absolutely makes sense that they are rethinking the space, and I feel there is not enough context here for non-University people to understand what’s at stake.

Hallowed Grounds is one of about 7 places within a three block radius to get a latte. And that’s including the NEW ex libris cafe (have you all seen it??? no more basement!) and the NEW Z+H on 57th Street, and the NEW frozen yogurt place in the BSLC, the NEW cafe in the NEW seminary coop bookstore, the NEW cafe in Logan… plus what’s already there- the starbucks, the div school cafe, Cobb…

Hallowed Grounds happens also to be a) owned.operated/something-or-othered by ORCSA, b) sitting on prime real estate in a prime location, c) uses space inefficiently, d) isn’t utilized by the entire university community.

So if you are UChicago, you have two options:

Save a flailing coffee shop for a few kids who want to nap and play pool, or
Refurbish the space to meet a critical university need that will serve all students

TL,DR: I like Hallowed Grounds as much as the next alum, but seriously, it’s far from practical.

dunbar · August 14, 2013, 3:06am

You’ve got to be kidding. None of those places are remotely similar to Hallowed Grounds. The new frozen yogurt place in the BSLC? There isn’t even seating. The 57th Street Z & H closes early, and is really only an off-campus lunch hub. Ex Libris is sterile, depressing, and drab. Hallowed is a student space–'nuff said.

It simply isn’t true that Hallowed “uses space inefficiently” or that it’s “flailing,” and it’s terribly misleading to say it “isn’t utilized by the entire university community.” So not everyone goes there. Fine. It’s still very often packed. Meanwhile, hardly anyone uses the current basement rooms ORCSA already has in Reynolds. And how many students in RSOs really need more face time with the ORCSA staff? We’re not talking about the student activity equivalent of professors’ office hours here; we’re talking about a few people who work in a general university administrative department. How is that a “critical university need,” let alone something that serves every student?

JHS · August 14, 2013, 9:58am

It’s interesting. I didn’t remember anything remotely resembling ORCSA and its legion of advisers from my own college days. Student organizations ran themselves, they applied for funding through deans’ offices, and if someone f-ed up a dean would invite him or her in for a chat. So I looked to see how my favorite Chicago peer institutions are handling this function now, and where.

Yale has a system for advising student organizations, approving their funding requests, scheduling facilities, and lending capital equipment. It is 100% student-run, although certainly the the college dean’s office must talk to the student chair from time to time. What’s more – this is going to start to sound familiar – there is apparently a table at the cafe in the undergraduate library where each of the principal student advisers (6 of them) holds regular drop-in “office hours” on a rotating basis to handle emergencies or casual questions. The table is staffed about four hours/day, six days/week.

Harvard has a separate building pretty far out of the way, near the Radcliffe Quads, with lots of meeting rooms and other facilities for student organizations to use. It has extensive rules and systems for student organizations, and an “Office of Student Life” which apparently has no dedicated staff. It’s just a consortium of other offices that advise students. There does seem to be some sort of staff at the center, but it isn’t clear that any of them are advisers, as opposed to custodians. Everything seems to be handled through online forms, although if an organization wants (or is deemed to want) more hands-on assistance someone will get in touch with them in a few days. The only thing that seems to require a face-to-face meeting would be a decision to seek separate 501(c)(3) status, as opposed to using the University to receive contributions on the organization’s behalf. It does appear pretty likely that an actual person will get in touch with you if you are deemed to have misused the Harvard name or logos, or violated funding conditions.

Cue7 · August 14, 2013, 12:15pm

Unalove said:

“Hallowed Grounds is one of about 7 places within a three block radius to get a latte. And that’s including the NEW ex libris cafe (have you all seen it??? no more basement!) and the NEW Z+H on 57th Street…”

I’ll contrast that with an example from another school I know well, UPenn. At Penn, there’s a popular bar known as Smoke’s. Now, there are probably seven places within a 3 block radius of Smoke’s to get a beer (just on a google map - City Tap House, a wine bar, a couple other bars, etc.).

While all these other places are great and can certainly serve up some beer, Smoke’s is a bit of an institution on campus. It does more than simply offer drinks.

Hallowed Grounds is the same way. Sometimes the importance of a place goes beyond its basic functions (e.g. serving coffee). A lack of such places can harm campus life. Growth of such places can strengthen student life.

I imagine the admin’s analysis was as cursory as unalove’s - it’s one coffeeshop with many other coffee shops nearby, it’s not always packed, etc. That analysis ignores the harder-to-quantify importance of the place.

Trust me, if the UPenn administration decided to try and force Smoke’s out, students wouldn’t be happy. The argument that there are plenty of other places nearby to get a beer wouldn’t hold water with Penn students either. There would be vehement protests and lots of petitions signed.

That’s not unlike what’s going on right now at UChicago.

If anything, UChicago needs more places like Hallowed Grounds - which do more than just serve up coffee like the local Starbucks. Come to think of it, UChicago needs more places like Smoke’s, as Jimmy’s and the Pub just don’t have the same feel. I don’t really know what the “college” bar at UChicago is - most tend to be much more grad-heavy.

unalove · August 19, 2013, 3:55pm

^I actually agree that Hallowed Grounds is important to student culture; I just wanted to bring in how “the suits” are seeing this situation and to bring in some sympathy for administrators who are trying to keep up with growing demand and meeting changing student needs and desires on limited space.

And to be perfectly honest, keeping up with the Joneses is, in this context, not the worst thing in the world. And if you ask me there are other universities that don’t allocate space well either, so this controversy is kind of interesting for several reasons.

dunbar · August 21, 2013, 2:28pm

Nice post from Admissions that succinctly shows we are not talking about Starbucks, Ex Libris, Z & H, BSLC, the new Co-Op, etc.: [UChicago</a> College Admissions, Hallowed Grounds A great cafe on campus. Students…](<a href=“UChicago College Admissions”>UChicago College Admissions)

From where things were—ORCSA completing construction on the project pretty much without notice before the start of Autumn quarter; the Maroon story didn’t exactly start from a press release—the “delay” was probably the best possible outcome. But it’s also the least the university could have done with that much student backlash. ORCSA hasn’t even backed off from the idea of taking over the space in Hallowed Grounds; there will just be more students on the committee that plans this and a few more options on the table. Now they can feign the step of student input and go ahead with most of what they wanted anyway (which, again, is hardly a growing demand or changing student need and is really quite unnecessary).

Hallowed Grounds changes delayed; new student committee

CONNECT WITH US