people of color
^bingo
I’ve thought the show is much bally-hooed because the audience is mostly white. The chance to witness something being touted as miraculous, cathartic, too-good-to-miss because of the exposure you speak of in comment #118 may be driving the cost of tickets, and driving the talk. (My musings.)
This is going to sound like I do not appreciate the artistry, the hard work of putting on the show, of honing ones’ talents and doing a spectacular job doing what one loves. Not the case at all.
@Waiting2exhale It doesn’t sound that way at all. I do LOVE the fact that more people are being exposed to the culture and the music. I also don’t doubt that the musical is great, I just imagine a lot of the hype is from people really being exposed to hip hop for the first time. It’s unfamiliarity creates the appeal for an audience not previously privy to how good hip hop can be.
But I doubt those 14-year olds mentioned in the article I liked who are absolutely beside themselves over Hamilton are hearing hip-hop for the first time. Hip hop is one of many genres of music that my 27 and 29 year old daughters love, as well as some rap. Actually my kids have a very eclectic taste in music, so this could have been made in many genres of music and they would have been familiar with it.
Well, for all those still keeping up with this thread, there is a not-so-hidden truth about NYC theatre that will give you the potential to have exposure to some of the most creative talent the city has to offer early on in their careers, and (sometimes) early in a show’s evolution: see it at the Public. That place has always been forward moving and electric.
@teriwtt I never said everyone is the audience is unfamiliar with hip hop. But look at Broadway’s demo, which is 80% white, 80% upper middle class/ wealthy, and on average 44 years old. These aren’t people who traditionally listen to hip hop. Nothing wrong with that. It’s novelty for that demo is part of it’s draw, while those who closely identify with it, generally can’t see it outside of community outreach programs.
But, from what I understand, LMM’s outreach programs are pretty spectacular and, also, technically, the history being presented belongs equally to rich white men, so I’m not sure why the story would be thought of as closely identified with the 20% of America which is nonwhite and non upper middle class/wealthy and ? not on average 44 years old ?
I’m absolutely sympathetic to a people’s culture being co-opted for profit, but it’s not clear to me why “Hamilton” should be targeted more than “Shuffle Along,” or “West Side Story,” for that matter.
But I think there’s a difference between people who actually go to Broadway musicals such as this and a whole 'nother segment who don’t go, but become obsessed with the music. For them, they’re not necessarily being exposed to hip hop for the first time. For many of them, they just don’t go because geographically it’s not feasible. Some of them may see it if it tours in a city near them, but many, many won’t ever see it so I don’t necessarily call them Broadway’s demo.
@PNWedwonk For me it’s the price. I am young, so I cannot really speak on past shows, but in my life time, I’ve never seen a Broadway show be sold out two years in advance with such exorbitant prices. I don’t mean identify with the story, but I mean identify with the music and cast, which is why it has gotten so much attention in the first place.
@teriwtt The people who are willing to fly to NYC for a weekend and stay in a hotel to pay $800 to see Hamilton are probably not too different socioeconomically than the average Broadway goer. I don’t have the data on who goes to see Hamilton, but I have read the data on who goes to see Broadway shows in general. With the price tickets, the Hamilton audience is’s probably whiter and richer than the average Broadway show, with roughly the same age because millennials generally can’t afford Hamilton tickets.
“Its novelty for that demo is part of it’s draw, while those who closely identify with it, generally can’t see it outside of community outreach programs.”
No good deed goes unpunished. Here, this man has introduced hip-hop to a much broader audience (by doing a far better job of it than the typical vulgar hip-hop on the radio); he’s opened the door to radical new ways of thinking about casting; he’s done more outreach than any other major show in terms of ensuring a handful of cheap tickets are available to the public … and yet it’s not good enough for you because Hamilton’s audience is likely “whiter and richer than the average Broadway show”? Seriously? That’s your takeaway?
It costs money to put on theater programs. You have to heat / cool / maintain theaters. You have to construct sets. You have to pay the actors, dancers, musicians, etc. You have to have promotional efforts and advertising and marketing. You have to have a ticketing infrastructure.
It is a GOOD thing that all of these people get paid, Calicash. They should give their time and talents away for free?
You go to a school that is one of the premier supporters of and producers of musical theater talent; we pride ourselves on it. Don’t you think that Hamilton’s success – even if it’s gasp, among rich white people – is GOOD for your musical theater classmates?
Please don’t forget that the producers are benefitting from a sold out house at face value ticket prices. They do not directly benefit when a $127 ticket goes for $1000.
Absolutely agree with @Pizzagirl. What a bizarre complaint to make.
Yes, Broadway is very expensive and so the vast majority of people don’t go. And yes, the Broadway audience is wealthy and white.
But let’s take a longer and wider view. Because Broadway shows are not just on Broadway. They get performed by community theater groups. They get performed by high schools. Over the next few decades, Hamilton will be seen by millions – including many sitting in high school auditoriums. It would not surprise me at all if it gets turned into a movie – just googled it, and Miranda says it may take 20 years, but there is definitely interest. Maybe it’ll be done live on TV like Sound of Music and Grease were.
I’ve seen Hamilton once, would love to see it again and have recently become addicted to the soundtrack. I am not a fan of hip hop/rap, but I think there is a big difference between Hamilton and typical rap. Hamilton is written for Broadway, and it’s written to carry a plot. So the songs have to be sung clearly, the lyrics enunciated so the audience can follow the storyline. Many of the songs are heavily influenced by rap and hip hop rhythms – but these songs are nothing like the rap music you hear on the radio.
Now I’m stuck on the idea of a live TV performance like Sound of Music with Carrie Underwood. Man, if they could get the original cast to do that …
@Pizzagirl Of course I want actors to be paid well. I am a fan of the theatre and I grew up around it so I know the work and money that goes into these productions. I am also happy that more people are being exposed to hip hop (I believe I already said that). All I am doing is pointing out what I see as irony.
I’m just expressing my opinion. You don’t have to agree. I’m not “punishing Hamilton.”
One can argue that LMM designed Hamilton in a way that would bring more POC to the theatre and yet the exorbitant prices (including resale tickets that benefit the pockets of the ticket holder) have made it difficult for the people who most closely identify with the music to see it. The only reason why he has to do so much outreach is because of the out-of-touch audience that has been driving up the cost of tickets. The novelty of the music is part of it’s draw for the audience and the people who don’t find novelty in hip hop can’t go.
I’m not saying there is anything wrong with Hamilton, I’m not saying there is anything wrong with the audience. I’m happy that a Broadway show filled with POC has had such critical success. It’s just ironic for me as a POC and I’ve spoken to other POC in the School of Comm who feel the same way.
For me personally, it reminds me of the Cotton Club. That’s not to say that it is a bad thing per se. It’s just what it reminds me of.
@fireandrain I’m not complaining. Is everything that doesn’t rave about Hamilton a complaint?
Yes, this is not news. But Hamilton’s audience is part an upper echelon of Broadway goers and it has been driven to that status by people who find novelty in hip hop.
For me, it would be the equivalent of Michael Flately performing for an audience of almost exclusively non-Irish people while most Irish people can’t afford to go. It’s just ironic to me. That’s all. No need to blow it out of proportion.
Broadway tickets, generally speaking, are expensive. This is not just for Hamilton. Hamilton tickets are in demand due to the popularity and success of the show and some tickets are being resold for way more than the regular ticket price (though those are also available). So, it is really nothing new that going to a Broadway show can be an expensive proposition and not everyone can afford to attend.
That said, I think that Lin-Manuel Miranda and the producers have tried to make the show accessible to more people. They have the daily lottery. Yes, it is hard to win those lottery tickets but they still allow some to see the show who may not otherwise afford it. The student matinees are NOT because “the only reason why he as to do so much outreach is because of the out-of-touch audience that has been driving up the cost of tickets.” Even if the cost of tickets were the regular Broadway price for all who buy tickets, many NYC area students would never have the opportunity to attend. I believe Lin’s heart is in the right place and he wants these students to see a show about American history and bring it alive for them. I believe he would have done this very same thing had the show not been selling out.
I don’t believe “that LMM designed Hamilton in a way that would bring more POC to the theatre.” I think he cast people of color as America belongs to our diverse population and that is how he wanted the story to be told. I don’t think the impetus was to bring more POC to the audience. For that matter, I saw his show, In the Heights, on Broadway which had many Latino actors in the cast. I don’t know that it brought more POC to the audience.
Eventually, Hamilton will be accessible through productions in other cities, tours, and so on. Even the cast album is a form of accessibility, even if not the same as the live show. I haven’t gotten to see the live show. My 27 year old daughter got me the CD for Mother’s Day. She saw Hamilton twice, once at The Public and once on Broadway. She even saw one of the final rehearsals at The Public as an audience of ONE (she is friendly with LMM, as well as some cast members).
Let’s also remember that Hamilton was first staged at The Public, a theater that tries to make theater accessible to, well, the public! They produce the FREE Shakespeare in the Park every summer at The Delacorte. Have you seen their Public Works program of Shakespeare in the Park? They even cast people from all five boroughs of NYC to perform along with Equity actors. Really, they are doing good work for the public good and accessibility of the arts/theater.
Also, some recent posts seem to dwell on the hip hop music in Hamilton. Having listened to the score, it is not nearly all hip hop or rap. There are many styles of music in the score. Further, as someone else noted, it is not like what you hear on the radio because the music and lyrics tell the story. I think it is a musical that a is relevant to all Americans, not just people of color. The diverse cast aims to represent the diversity of our population. It doesn’t mean that the musical is aimed particularly at audiences of color, but rather to all people. But yes, Broadway shows are expensive and that was true before Hamilton came along.
I don’t see any irony, because I don’t think that certain people “own” greater inherent rights to see any performance based on their skin color / ethnicity. Should Fiddler on the Roof have been required to ensure immigrant Jews with roots in Eastern Europe get first dibs on tickets? How about West Side Story – were they required to ensure that Puerto Ricans attend? I think the whole concept of entitlement here is ridiculous.
And I think the very fact that “now white people are discovering hip-hop” isn’t a flaw in white people; it’s a flaw in the fact that the hip-hop that was out there wasn’t anywhere near the quality of what LMM (a POC of color himself as you surely know) has created.
And you can’t have it both ways. You can’t simultaneously want white people to now appreciate hip-hop, and also be annoyed that they are crowding the theaters and creating demand for it.
I don’t think the novelty of hip hop is what drives people to see Hamilton. I think that the writing, composing, concept, staging, choreography, talent, and overall genius of this show’s creation and execution drives people to want to see it. I don’t think they go because it is hip hop. LMM’s musical, In the Heights, also had hip hop and rap, and in fact, was very successful and won a Tony for Best Musical. It wasn’t the phenomenon that Hamilton is, yet both had hip hop and rap. There are many elements about Hamilton that drive people to want to see it. While I haven’t seen it, it is supposed to be a marvelous production and it isn’t due to hip hop itself.
Apologies if this piece was already mentioned. In addition to precisely describing life with a 14 y.o. girl, this writer/father beautifully delineates much of Hamilton’s appeal. It’s Joe Posnanski, a sports writer for NBC…
Calicash, the people who are paying the big bucks to go to Hamilton aren’t going “because it’s a novelty.” They aren’t going because “gosh, I’ve never heard hip-hop before and there’s no way I can hear hip-hop unless I go to see this production” - they all have radios. They are going because it’s a high quality production that is worth seeing.
It’s condescending to push the agenda that (wealthy white) people are only going to see Hamilton because it’s some novelty for them, or that they can’t have as much appreciation for it as POC. How about we just talk about people as theatergoers enjoying a production instead of having to divide them up by skin color?
It’s true that theater is often less accessible to poorer people in general. That’s unfortunate regardless of whether the poorer people involved are black, white, or purple.
@greenbutton - great article. Thanks for posting it!