Hamilton the musical

Yes, I posted it in #113 and shared that I’d learned about it from D1, the person I’m going to see the show with in two weeks. Of course I kept trying to read too much into the article - wanted to know exactly what it was about the article that resonated with D1 enough that she felt impelled to post it on my Facebook wall (she very rarely does this). I wondered if it was her way of telling me she’s going to cry several times that weekend! (although I realize there’s a huge hormonal difference between a 14 y/o and 29 y/o!)

I’m still slogging away at the book - am almost 60% through; although I’m enjoying the book, it’s now sort of starting to feel like homework with a self-imposed deadline.

Thanks so much, @greenbutton. Reading about that father/daughter connection moved me to tears and made my day!

This.

I think it is very easy to assume that a smash hit like Hamilton is driven by hype, there is obviously an element to that with any smash show, people seeing it because ‘it is cool’, and so forth. Thing is, though, that kind of hype doesn’t last, and the word of mouth on this show shows it has lasting value. Is the show the provence of well off upper income, mostly white audiences? Yeah, but guess what, that has been true of Broadway for a long, long time, when you have a smash like this, where supply is outpaced by demand, prices go nuts. When "The Producers’ became a smash, musical ticket prices went above 100 bucks and kept climbing. When broadway musicals started doing the spectacles, the Andrew LLoyd Webber/special effects monsters, the price tags started climbing, as did other costs. Even assuming there are TKTS for a show, half off some of the tickets is still hefty.

With Hamilton or any hot ticket, what makes it worse is that a lot of tickets never see face value to the real audiences, thanks to a variety of techniques ticket brokers snatch them up and sell them for huge premiums, whether it is because they have inside contacts with the ticketing agencies (or with ticketmaster having the $$$ to have a resale division of its own, anyone think that the two are firewalled? . The same thing is true of other forms of entertainement, when big name rap and hip hop stars perform, tickets prices aren’t cheap, and large part of their audiences are well off, mostly white kids, too (I don’t think tickets to see Kanye West or Jay Z or any of the top rap/hip hop acts, are going for 10 bucks,they are up there these days, too),so working class people are being locked out there, too, it is across the board.

Okay, so then why is Hamilton important? The answer is simple, the show is selling out and the backers are getting their money back and will likely make money on the show…and the fact that the show was written by someone who is hispanic, features a cast that is mostly black/hispanic, has music that is not necessarily traditional broadway, and is selling means that the arguments that still plague the movies for example are being blown away…primarily, that a cast that has a lot of folks who are non white, shows written by someone who isn’t white, can sell to a wide audience on broadway, that the old arguments are basically bs. When Hair hit broadway, with a score that contained rock music in it (not entirely, like Hamilton it was a mix of things), that had a cast with a lot of black actors, it was predicted it would crash and burn, it didn’t (and because of Hair, later shows like Jesus Christ Superstar, Rent much later on, others were produced when they realized Broadway wasn’t just for blue haired old ladies pining for Oklahoma). It will be hard for some producer (who are almost entirely older white men) to argue against success, and that is the big point…and what broadway produces also has impact elsewhere, as others have said. Regional theaters may take a chance on a new musical or play by someone non traditional or cast plays with non traditional actors and so forth.

Buried in that long post is a great point that Kanye, JayZ, etc aren’t selling their tickets for $10 so that poorer POC can attend. But … Well, that’s different, I’m sure.

@CaliCash, what would you have wanted LMM to do differently? Not take Hamilton to Broadway? Not write it at all? Cast it with Caucasians because that is who would most likely be in the audience? It did start off Broadway in NY, but even then there was a lot of buzz and tickets were snapped up, but not with the current fervor. I am just not sure what you would expect, other than that maybe Hamilton just shouldn’t exist?

LMM tweeted last …week? That he was reading the Posnanski piece after a “long week” , in his dressing room, and it made him cry, as well.

@intparent I have ZERO issue with Hamilton or the audience. How many times must I say that? I was just pointing out what I saw as irony. It’s not that complicated.

@Pizzagirl Kanye and Jay-Z’s audience aren’t a bunch of people unfamiliar with hip hop. You don’t believe a culture can own something, I do. And that’s okay.

What’s the point of conversation if the only points of merit are the ones that fit your narrative?

I’m just looking at something through a different lense as a millennial POC. That’s how I feel and I’m not trying to convince you to, nor do I expect you to feel the same way.

I apologize if my opinion offended you, that was not my intention.

I see your point – but the question is you don’t like how it looks or how it is will always be, “What would you do to change it?”

@intparent I wouldn’t change anything at all. I believe in a free market. High demand, high prices. That’s the way the cookie crumbles.

The genius of Hamilton (well, one of them) is that LMM read the book and realized that the energy and innovation and excitement of those long-ago events would be brought to life with the music and cast representing the 21st century. That the story must be told through this music. And many of the people paying big bucks to see it understand that genius. They aren’t going because it’s a “novelty” or because they want to see this new-fangled hip hop thing on Broadway.

The problem with your opinion, calicash, is that it’s based on a fallacy. This is not a case of rich white people slumming it at a joint in Harlem.

The Revolutionary War has always been one of my two most favorite historical periods (and I was a history major). And I agree with LMM, that seeing it told this way, in this voice, with these actors, captures the amazing accomplishments of those long-dead white Americans in a totally new way. And so it enables us to see those events in a different way, with a different perspective – to appreciate it and relish it in context of today’s popular culture.

I do agree with you, however, that it would be nice if Broadway audiences were more diverse. I went to see The Color Purple – which, by the way, is an astonishing production and worth seeing if you can’t get Hamilton tickets (the woman playing the lead is breathtaking and I hope she wins the Tony) – and there were few people of color in that audience, too.

That column by the sportswriter has me in tears.

@fireandrain The beauty of life is that we can all disagree with each other. My opinion is not based on fallacy simply because you disagree. You have a different view, that’s fine. But I will not pretend your argument has no merit because it’s not what I believe. As I have said before, I’m not trying to convince you to, nor do I expect you to feel the same way.

“You don’t believe a culture can own something, I do. And that’s okay.”

This is too reductive for me because it begs the question of - who gets to own what, and if you own something, do you welcome others to share and appreciate it with you, or do you say hands-off, it’s mine? These are a lot of the social questions facing college campuses right now.

I think nobody really “owns” anything (I mean, obviously LMM owns the rights to the music in Hamilton - I mean at the broader level of culture). We all build on, riff on, improve, adapt on what others have done. I don’t like notions that X type of people can’t appreciate Y type of (art, fashion, music, literature) as well as those who happen to share race / ethnicity of the author / creator. I think it has the potential to segregate us back. I’m not accusing you of doing that, just explaining where I think the danger lies.

@Pizzagirl I do believe that there can be a slippery slope when it comes to “culture”. For example, surely when people in America refer to black culture, they cannot be referring to the experiences of all black people. What about black people who live in different countries? Black people who don’t live around other black people?

And I do recognize that there are many cases in which people go too far when it comes to pointing out what they perceive as appropriation. I’m also not accusing Hamilton’s audience of appropriating anything or of anything wrong doing. I’ve listened to the music, it’s great and I’m sure the acting is superb. And I have ZERO issue with who goes to see it or how much it costs. I was just pointing out what I saw as irony. Many of you don’t, I respect that.

I also should clarify that I don’t believe any culture necessarily owns something in the traditional sense. But I believe there are things that are closely ingrained in the identity, experiences, and lives of people of a certain culture and so it becomes part of them. For some people, that’s clothing, for others it’s music, for others it’s food. There’s a line between appreciating it, and rebranding it as something new and bastardizing it when in reality, it has been around for a long time.

Again, that’s simply what I believe, I’m not demanding anyone else agree.

Damnit, my eyes are leaking. Thanks for that link.

I think the beauty of “Hamilton” is that LMM wrote something which works on so many levels that everybody I know who has seen it or (more likely) listened to soundtrack has found something to identify with in the words, the music, and the story. The immigrant experience. The feeling of not being appreciated. The grace of forgiveness. The excitement of being involved in something bigger than yourself. The love for a child. The loss of a child (as a mother who has lost a young adult son, I cannot listen to “The Unimaginable” without tears). It’s all there.

And, personally, I think calling the music “hip hop” is more misappellation than misappropriation. I experienced it as a wonderful fusion of hip-hop, pop, and traditional Broadway musical, that, like the story itself, goes beyond the expected. And that’s one of the reasons it seems so “All-American” to me.

@calicash:
I can understand where you are coming from, my point was that the economics of it apply whether or not the audience likes hip hop/rap, knows it or not, the prices are going to be high. WIth Hamilton, even if the tickets hadn’t been driven to distraction, a lot of people who otherwise would like to see it because of the music or the casting and are looking at astronomical prices, would likely still have a hard time with ticket prices in the 200 buck range or so. The good news is like any show, it eventually is going to become another long running show and tickets will be more available, including likely discount tickets, that will be more affordable.

@elliemom:
I agree, the music is as unorthodox as the show, it is a mixture of forms and as a result I think works all the better for it, I was amazed at the way he used the various forms to achieve his vision, I don’t know if it would have worked as well. I was just thinking about the musical “Fiddler on the Roof”, that has another revival on Broadway, and it also is the 50th anniversary of the original show. Fiddler has some things in common, think about a musical on the Great White Way featuring life in a 19th century village in Russia among its Orthodox Jewish inhabitants, that featured music heavily inspired by Klezmer and other forms of music from that time and place, and it becoming a hit, it certainly drew people who were of Jewish background, but drew a ton of people who had never heard Klezmer music or had any shared background with the story. Hair likewise was not a pure rock musical, the music is a combination of rock, Jazz and more traditional Broadway music (the composer, Galt McDermott, was a genius in much the same way LMM is I think).

“… it’s a flaw in the fact that the hip-hop that was out there wasn’t anywhere near the quality of what LMM…has created.”

That would surely be disputed by rap and hip-hop artists and lovers everywhere. I am not such a lover, but I can see it now, that statement made in a room, or on a corner, and the raucous (musical) showdown which follows.

^ The room where it happens?