<p>Hey all- I go to a pretty hard school (WUSTL) where the chemistry department is especially hard. It’s not impossible hard, but the tests definitely require intense critical thinking skills and reasoning (the mean grade on our first test was a 66 with a standard deviation of 16).</p>
<p>After reading through these forums and other generic premed threads, I have noticed a ton of emphasis on GPA. But to me, GPA sometimes is inconsistent, and definitely variable across schools. What if you misinterpret one question, and therefore get a 90 when you easily could have gotten a 100 when you understand the material? I understand this happens often, but it could mean a difference in GPA of .3 or even more. I did pretty well on the first test, but I have a bad feeling about the second one. In Writing I, my professor is a hard grader when everyone else pretty much gets an easy A. </p>
<p>Do successful premeds go through this, or am I an exception? If the school is hard and the mean GPA for premeds is low, will grad schools see this?</p>
<p>Despite the difficulties, stress, and anxiety of being a premed, I have confidence in my ability to succeed. There’s just a bunch of small factors that are impediments (roommates staying up late, making careless mistakes on tests, wasting time posting on CC) that could possibly lower my GPA, even though I am 100 percent confident in my ability to interpret and apply material.</p>
<p>Sorry if it seems like I am a grade monger-I am not. But it seems to me like grades are emphasized in grad school admissions much more than in college admissions even though there are so many factors affecting GPA.</p>
<p>Med schools receive too many applications to be pondering these questions for each and every student. GPA is generally taken at face value with little correction. Do the best you can. That’s the only thing you can control.</p>
<p>Agree with NorCalGuy. Do the best you can in the premed courses. Also pick a major in an area you enjoy. Usually people do well in subjects they enjoy learning about and find it easier to get good grades. If happens to be biology and the sciences, that 's great. If not, pick a major in a different area. Medical schools do not care about your major.</p>
<p>They assume the random factors you mention-mistakes that change the grade on one test- average themselves out over a college career.</p>
<p>Always worthwhile investigating the reputations of professors for hard or easy grading when picking courses. </p>
<p>When you are picking roommates for next year, be sure that they match on schedules and work habits. And don’t worry, one test, no matter how bad, will not keep you out of medical school.</p>
<p>1.) When competing for a school like WUSTL undergrad, high school grades are much MORE important than college grades are for medical school.</p>
<p>2.) You are expected to be able to manage roommates, exam stresses, and the Internet with a minimum of complaining.</p>
<p>3.) Medical schools do not view all GPAs equally, but the variation is not a difficulty adjustment per se. So far as I can tell, basically two subconscious factors come into play when viewing a GPA.</p>
<p>First, you are compared to past students from your undergraduate school. If other WUSTL students have come with, say, 3.3 GPA’s and done just fine at, say, Baylor Med, then the Baylor committee won’t worry very much about you. This is not a pure difficulty adjustment.</p>
<p>Second, your MCAT and GPA go hand-in-hand, not as separate factors. A student with a serious mismatch will be viewed oddly, and there’s no predicting how an admissions officer will interpret it. If your MCAT is very high and your GPA is very low, then it’s likely that an admissions officer will view you as going to a very tough school (if other students are similar) or as being very bright and very lazy.</p>
<p>The other way around will almost certainly tell them that you go to a very easy school and the GPA is seen in an “of course he did well” light. In the odd situation where you’re known to be going to a very difficult school, I’m not sure how an adcom would respond.</p>
<p>Thanks for the input, it’s really great to hear advice from those who have already gone through the trouble.</p>
<p>I think the hype for grad school isn’t much different than the hype for undergrad. A bunch of intelligent overachievers worrying! But the national statistic (40 percent) for med schools is still pretty high, considering the acceptance rates for many top 20 colleges are around 20 to 10 percent.</p>
<p>Lollybo: you’re comparing two different statistics here. The national rate of students who apply to college who go to some college is probably very, very high. The rate at any individual college might be 10 to 20%, but the proper comparison is to the rate at any individual medical school, which is very rarely about 10% and quite often below 3%.</p>
<p>Sorry if I compared two very different statistics, but my original point is that quite a few people get into medical graduate schools. 40 percent is almost half, which isn’t too shabby. However, I should qualify my point some more: usually only qualified premeds even consider applying to medical school, which makes it harder to a certain degree.</p>
<p>However, I would like to know how to get in that 40 percent that gets accepted. I think I work hard enough to get a 3.5 minimum, but I am hoping for more (If I don’t get it, oh well. That happens). So I view GPA as something that doesn’t have to be amazing, but it has to show you are competent and hard working. The MCAT is a good national measure of where you stand, which you need to supplement by research and volunteering.</p>
<p>I’ll give you the fact that your head is at least in the right place that you want to get in somewhere. That’s the right attitude to have, so many kids on this website think they have to get into Hopkins or WUSTL or UDub or UCSF.</p>
<p>I just wouldn’t compare medical school admissions to getting into undergrad.</p>
<p>Yes, I believe the medical education in the US is very very solid. Because many people go overseas to study medicine, I believe that studying in the states is a great honor. Plus, there are only about 100 medical institutions out there- compare that to the number of undergrads.</p>
<p>I was on admissions committee at a top med school previously. BDM is correct as they are familiar with the general grading policy of schools from where they have had many previous applicants and enrolled students. Even more important than the grading reputation of a school, the GPAs (actually the whole applications) of students are compared with the pool of applicants from a given school in addition to those whom they have taken in the past from that school (there is fairly good institutional memory of at least 5-7 years given the turnover on the committees. I have known some people that have served over 20 years as they enjoy being involved in the admissions process). There is a fair amount of emphasis on the overall GPA; however, particular attention also is paid to some of the key pre-med courses- intro biology and organic chemistry. All premeds from the same school take those courses so their performances in those courses can be compared (There is the proverbial how do you compare an A- in music composition to linear algebra to a high level course in history on the French Revolution?). Also,if there is a strong upward trend, that is noted-so don’t be discouraged if you do not do well in your first science courses. </p>
<p>I would remind you that medical schools do take a wholistic approach. They also look at your ECs, character, commitment to medicine (it is a long process and they don’t want anyone to drop out), evidence of perseverance, and ideally some area of excellence in additon to your studies (I personally think it reflects characteristics like good time management and/or leadership). I thus would encourage you to develop yourself as a person as well as a student, and also enjoy the college experience. </p>
<p>Last, as mentioned already, 40% premeds who apply do get admitted. Most good students who finish the premed program/courses in college will get accepted somewhere. DO NOT get fixated on any particular elite medical school. Apply if qualified, and see what happens. Focus instead on schools where you have a good chance for admission, typically your state school even if it may turn out not to be your top choice. The admission rates for in-state residents, with the exception of the California state schools, are fairly good and most of the spots (sometimes all) are reserved for in-staters.</p>
<p>I suppose it all depends on how you define ‘not too shabby’. I guess it boils down to perspective. I actually think that that 40% figure is very shabby. As has been stated above, as long as you graduate from high school, you are virtually assured of getting into some college, even if it’s just an open-admissions community college. Not so for med-school. Like you said, 60% of all premeds who apply to med-school don’t get in anywhere. </p>
<p>We should emphasize that phrase “premeds who apply”. To even apply to med school means that you have to complete all of the premed requirements, take the MCAT, fill out applications, get rec’s, and so forth. So think about that. Plenty won’t even bother completing all of those steps because they know they won’t get in anyway. {I.e. if you have a 2.1 GPA and a terrible MCAT score, you know you’re not getting in anywhere, so why even waste your time in completing those other steps?} Nonetheless, even of those who apply, the majority won’t get in. What that means is that you can go through all of the pain of taking all those premed courses, studying hard for the MCAT, building your EC’s, and basically spending all of your time doing all of that work… and still not get in anywhere. </p>
<p>I think that’s the most painful aspect of the premed process. You have to invest a huge chunk of upfront time and pain with no assurance that your investment will actually pay off. In fact, for the majority of people, the investment does not pay off. Hence, they effectively threw away all that time they spent. That’s sad. If you’re not going to get into med-school, then it would be better for you to know that early so that you don’t waste your time trying to get in, so that you can use your time to do other things. Unfortunately, the way the US medical training system is set up forces a lot of people to throw away years of their lives without any payback. That’s a conspicuously large deadweight loss that the medical community is imposing on society. Sad but true.</p>
<p>Hehehe, a little over the top here don’t you think?</p>
<p>While not getting accepted into med school is a definite disappointment for many, all of the individuals accomplishments don’t just go down the drain. All of the EC’s, community service, and research the failed med school applicant has participated in are marketable. Additionally, if the individual has truly invested his/her heart and soul into becoming a doctor and has done well (albeit borderline with a 3.5 gpa and 28-30 MCAT) then he/she has many options available including masters and doctorate programs in Biology (depending on whether or not this is an acceptable alternative to becoming a doctor), reapplying after a year or two of application building, or a host of other medicine related careers.</p>
<p>Agree with Red Sox. All premeds will have earned a college degree. Most colleges require a major rather than just a “pre-med” curriculum for graduation. If one has majored in a subject, one’s chances for jobs that require that background should be comparable to people who were not pre-med and had simiilar qualifications. If one majored in biology, there are other career options and other degrees that can be obtained. Also, one can enhance one’s application through work and other experiences, and apply again. Most candidates generally are stronger after they have been in the real world, and apply again.</p>
<p>" If you’re not going to get into med-school, then it would be better for you to know that early so that you don’t waste your time trying to get in, so that you can use your time to do other things. Unfortunately, the way the US medical training system is set up forces a lot of people to throw away years of their lives without any payback. That’s a conspicuously large deadweight loss that the medical community is imposing on society. Sad but true."</p>
<p>Well said Sakky. I really think that the US med system is so prone to injustice, and even worse, wastefulness. In EU countries, HS graduates go directly to Med school (open admission) where they take only premed/science courses the 2 first years. That’s the weed out premed step, which is 2 to 4 times faster than in the US. Why? because the students focus, and right at the end of the first year, know that they either don’t have the stamina to succeed, or will succeed with 90% probability (80-85% get weeded out in 1st premed year). The system becomes much, much more efficient, with doctors getting an MD (and only an MD, not a BS) in 6 years. Also, the whole education is free. Hopefully, US medicine will learn from Europe to correct their wasteful medical system.</p>
<p>Sorry to thread-jack, but in Medical School admissions is there any difference in their eyes if you went to UCLA OR UC Berkeley (given GPA’s are the same in each)</p>