I feel like everything is so black and white for people and I just wanted to discuss why. Maybe even understand and offer a different view.
It kills me that people look at the arts in such a harmful view. No one tells an artist that they are guaranteed success because no one knows. Yet everyone is so quick to say that the arts will leave you battered and bruised. Going for a degree in dance, literature, theatre, music, art etc. will ensure that you become a starving artist in some minds. Why is it that people who are encouraged to go after careers of being a lawyer, engineer, scientist and all those top jobs are almost guaranteed success after school so they take out major loans. Then when post-grad life happens those people actually have to work hard at the expense of not living as comfortably as they were promised or told they would. Or they are working hard and lead a wealthy life only to keep from actually enjoying the things they’ve acquired. This is not to say that there are no success stories out there but this is just an example to show that others need to promote success stories within the arts and not have everything come out so bleakly nor lead people to believe that their is a light at the end of the tunnel, because sometimes there is none.
Why is only one side of this world getting the message that hard work does not guarantee success. Every career has some sort of risk, some sort of loss and gain and some sort of journey. I feel like people nowadays want a get rich quick scheme. Then when they don’t get results in a timely fashion, they don’t continue. This leads to another question: Why the heck is everyone so fixated on money? We need it to survive sure but it’s a petty game that will not give you happiness. What happens when the material runs out? Will we be happy when we are so conditioned to believe that being rich is what is going to make us happy? What about the journey itself? Why is it always, “Do you have the money? No. Then forget it. Wait, but you’ll have to work hard and you may not get the job. It’s not a good idea because it won’t give you a lot of money.” Forget that noise. We should encourage our children to be themselves and be the type of people who are not afraid to do what they like and go after what they want. Tell them that they need to get their hands dirty and be prepared to work if it’s something that they want and say this in regards to ANY field they choose. We promote too many ideas that are so one sided. When will we learn that as important as some things are, they are not everything.
Hard work is not a guarantee for success but we shouldn’t be afraid to promote it. Take risks if you think they will benefit you. Do not be afraid to take the contrary route and be wise about where you choose to tread. Most importantly, do not be discouraged when things do not turn out as you planned. Keep going.
What is your opinion? What do you think about telling a child what to major in because you think you know best? What do you think about promoting hard work without any pay-out? Would you promote it and why? Would you promote the contrary?
My opinion? A parent should not tell a child what to major in.
But a parent should point out pros and cons. And a parent should make helpful suggestions. For example, a dance major is great for a talented student who excels at dance, but an arts management minor that includes some business courses may prove to be a useful back-up for those times when professional dance opportunites run thin.
I really think each parent is within their rights to promote their world view to their own children in this regard. We know our children, and values differ. I know three families with children happily making their way in the arts and all are meeting with success in the sense they are earning some money and are happy. However, for me, financial security was always high on my priority list, and I know I would be very anxious without it. Do I project that onto my children to an extent. Absolutely. Does it concern me that I am doing so? Not in the least. You can pursue so many avenues from a solid financial foundation, and I am not going to minimize its importance to my children. But also wouldn’t denigrate another parent whose message was more in the vein of “do what you love and the money will follow”.
Having enough money gives people more options. Having options gives people more freedom.
Having the freedom to make various choices makes people happy.
An artist needs money to buy their supplies and a place to create. A musician needs a place to practice and money to buy and fix their instruments. They need to eat, to be able to get places, to be able to stay healthy by having money for the Dr.or dentist. They need money to survive:Food, rent, healthcare, medicine, electricity,heat, water,transportation. They all have a cost.
So they need to work. The less money you make an hour the more hours you have to work. The more hours you work the less time to practice your craft.
And the honest truth is you need to save some money so you are not destitute in the future. No one will save you by giving you money.
Parents desperately want their children to earn enough money for them to survive, for them to have choices, for them to be happy and not struggle daily to have the basics in life.
You don’t need to be rich. You just need to be happy. And happy costs money. The journey gets old and you get tired when it is always uphill and against the wind.
Working hard at something you love and are good at will almost always yield long term success. At minimum, a hard working artist with some talent will eventually be able to make really nice decorative items for their homes, the homes of their friends and family, and maybe even some paying clients. I think one common issue is that people forget about the “long term” and don’t always consider “success” as a personal selection of values, goals and other items, not just owning an Escalade or a big house.
You also have to pay the bills, although people have very different amounts of money they need to be happy, some folks will live in tiny apartments, some want big 5000 ft2 homes and an SUV.
I think with the slow economy, many people are looking at a simple recipe to have their kids succeed, or at least move out of their basement by age 30. There is a lot of fear, and college costs are really high, so you can go wildly in debt with a degree that pays very little, which puts you and your parents in a really bad position.
If you can keep your costs down, by using public education (art at a state school or even a CC, etc), scholarships, a simple way of life, and are happy with a well-fed artists life that may actually include working at something part or full time that you do not love, certainly, I would say go for it.
Unhappy, limited skills, unmotivated engineers do not all become millionaires and happy artists are well happy artists.
Liberal and creative arts including understanding life beyond the amount of your direct deposit is being really undervalued right now in favor of a trade school mentality where starting salaries are the goal of your entire college experience (along with heavy drinking).
Because the majority of people have never learned (and will never learn) how to evaluate happiness and satisfaction. Money is a simple-to-understand substitute for measuring success.
I believe in the arts. I believe in supporting creative endeavors. I believe that majoring in accounting (if you hate accounting and aren’t very good at it) is a waste of an education which you could have spent studying something you love and might excel at.
That said, I think a lot of 18 year olds are naive about what it takes to actually earn a living, especially if their parents have not been transparent about their own finances and the trade-off’s they’ve had to make. One of my kids called after the first doctors visit (something not too serious but had to be taken care of quickly) once he was working full time. He was indignant- the visit cost $85 and he had to pay then and there. He said, “but doctor so and so (his pediatrician) never charged more than $10”. So we had a quick lesson on co-pays, monthly carrying costs of a full-on health insurance plan, etc. His indignation of course subsided quickly- he had a great insurance plan at work for which he paid next to nothing- but it had a very high deductible and was mostly major medical (which of course is appropriate for a healthy 22 year old with no dependents).
Kids don’t understand (most of them) the in’s and out’s of providing for a family. They want to own a car- but don’t understand how much insuring that car (or parking it if you live in a big city) is going to cost. They don’t worry about becoming disabled or needing life insurance. They don’t understand that the rent they are paying to live with 5 other people in a small apartment isn’t going to cover their own place anytime soon unless they move from SF or Seattle to Dayton Ohio.
So it’s a learning curve and a balancing act. Not every kid interested in the arts has the initiative and stick-to-it required to be successful- even if they’ve got the talent, which doesn’t become apparent for a while. Not every kid interested in the arts wants to work at minimum wage jobs while going on auditions AND taking classes AND doing community theater for peanuts just to expand the range (or fill in the appropriate experience if it’s the visual and not performing arts). Some kids just want to become famous.
And that won’t happen without a LOT of grinding away at the craft first.
So that’s why parents try to give their kids a reality check. Not that they don’t support artistic endeavors- just to make sure that kids go into it with their eyes open.
I think to pick at the arts as being the only field in which kids are not going to have an easy start in life is a bit disingenuous.
Living in SF is difficult for almost anyone right out of school. You don’t need life insurance before you start a family (and that can wait, and does for most kids now), you do need disability insurance. You don’t need a car if you live in a city with public transportation, and if you need one, there are reliable used vehicles. You can stay on parents insurance until you are 26, even if you are a bohemian. In your 20s, living with 5 other people is likely fun, not horrible like it would be for a cranky 40 year old. You can have really, really cheap hobbies and take advantage of lots of free concerts, museums, activities. You can buy some running shoes or a bike. You can vacation in a tent or out of a backpack.
Becoming famous or landing that Google job or winning lottery are probably equally unlikely for 99% of kids who aren’t beautiful and talented or wiz programmers at top school or beating 1:1,000,000 odds.
Most people should probably live in Dayton OH, have a normal job, and start a family when they feel it is time and they have a life partner.
Nothing can guarantee success. But without hard work, in some areas, success is NOT possible at all. At least “cover” this part of your path to success. This aspect of “working hard” is YOUR control, while many other factors are NOT.
“Why the heck is everyone so fixated on money?” - it is a personal choice. Why to be so disturbed with how others feel? It is their right!!! If person is chasing certain income and achieving it is making person happy, why not? If a person feels indifferent about money, so be it, apparently the person has something else in mind to make a happy life. Why the heck the way somebody else feels is such a fixation/obsession of others? It is nobody else’s business, just pursue YOUR OWN GOALS and leave others alone to pursue theirs.
Yes, there are places in the USA where every day life is challenging. But again, this is a personal choice and some fully enjoy these challenges. I myself will never live in NYC or SF or many other places like this. But my S. lives in NYC with his family and they just love it. I do not know why they feel this way, but I certainly will not try to change their minds, it is their choice.
I would not support my kid’s decision if they choose art as a career. However, if feel that art should be a part of life and I have fully supported it with both my kids and grandkids, all are heavily involved with arts (including myself), despite of the busy lives and that even includes my medical resident D. who sometime works crazy 76hour / week. Whenever she has a chance, her choice has been to buy an art session and paint for couple of hours, I even sell my art and belong to the guild, despite the fact that I am an IT professional. Art and music greatly enriches life, I am all for it. But I cannot see how it may sustain a family financially, it is a great struggle and not everybody is up to meeting this challenge, I am not the one for sure, it requires a certain personality. However, every job requires certain sacrifices. If you feel that working 76 hours / week makes person unhappy, you are not right either, some people choose whatever field requires this type of hurdle, it is their hurdle and sacrifice and they feel that they are at the right place. That feeling worth everything, all sacrifices in a world! To feel differently is a misery and I have all rights to say that, I have been there, I changed my career in my mid. 30s and I am very happy that I did, and money had nothing to do with my decision and was pure personal satisfaction!
Pick- there are many fields which are a tough launch…but the OP asked about the arts. None of my kids own a car-even now, many years after being financially independent of us and being fully launched in their careers. But that’s a choice to live in a city with good public transportation- and pay the high taxes that often accompany the cities where you can live car-free for years or decades. And I agree that a kid can enjoy a nice lifestyle via sharing, cheap nights out, etc.
But at the end of the day- rent and food. Utilities. Even staying on Mom and Dad’s health plan- that costs money too. So I’d fully support a career in the arts or working for a non-profit or anything else that’s honest labor. But a kid needs go to into it with eyes open. My love is forever- my financial support ends shortly after college graduation (a fact that we were quite transparent about). I have friends subsidizing the lifestyles of kids who are in their '30’s. That’s just infantalizing IMHO unless the child is disabled or unable to work for other reasons.
I know many rich art majors- no common household names, but clever folks who used their full educations, were willing to, yes, work hard. I also know a few engineering majors who are still looking for that first “real” job. My kids were humanities majors and are both earning well enough…and working hard. They’re happy with their work and lifestyles.
I don’t really understand what OP’s question is. It seems he/she is thinking the arts are not hard work. Any student in (or grad of) a decent program can tell you hard work is the mandatory sister to talent. Plenty of kids are bruised by their art studies, critiques, lack of recognition. If you’e serious, the pursuit of the arts is rigorous. It isn’t like sitting in your bedroom, doodling. That may bring a sort of fleeting happiness, but it’s not the mature way to view your future.
Why do parents get involved? Adding to blossom’s comments, because we know life is tough, we know that no matter how much you love to draw or sculpt or play video games, you have to CYA in life. (I think we are all saying this.)
Personal spending habits matter greatly. A parent I know is not concerned about the kid wanting to study art, because the kid has frugal spending habits and good work ethic in both school and employment.
On the other hand, one may be more concerned about kids who can’t save a nickel if their life depended on it.
In my experience, good artists tend to be good writers also. That makes sense, as they generally take a relatively high number of humanities and social science classes, which tend to be writing-intense.
So I imagine any job requiring a lot of communication would be right up an artist’s alley, if nothing immediately opens up in the art world.
Being an artist requires an entrepreneurial spirit for one to be commercially successful in the long run. Having confidence, being a good communicator, capitalizing on contacts, putting one’s art on display and promoting oneself–all of these things are necessary in addition to having real talent.
Not all well-meaning people who point out that acquiring survival skills (and a potentially marketable degree) are simply trying to redirect towards non-artistic pursuits.
If you come from a wealthy family who can support you well into your 40s, then go for it. Sure people make it. It’s usually the ones who have generous and extended support.