<p>^Again, I cite a difference in philosophy. Schools should not make accommodations that they are not willing to publicize to a reasonable degree. This does not require any more effort than searching the computer records to see who has a grade above X% and sending a letter home to their parents to inform them that, hey, there’s a possibility of accelerating IF you feel your child is ready, and IF you (meaning the parents being addressed in this form letter) are willing to go through the necessary paperwork. I don’t want schools to make the accommodation standard, merely to make its existence non-secretive. (And allowing the proliferation of vague rumors does not count as active work to make something non-secretive.)</p>
<p>My D came back one day from 5th grade and told us that she and a handful of other kids were taken aside and given a math test. She said the test was full of symbols that she had never seen before. She just made some wild guesses and was done with it. </p>
<p>Upon calling the school, I found out that she had been given the test because she scored above a certain threshold in the Statewide math proficiency test. Turns out, some of the other families knew what to expect and had prepared their kids for the ‘test full of symbols’. A couple of those kids went on to the advanced math track.</p>
<p>I agree to some extent with Keilexandra. Parents are savvy and tuned in to varying degrees. Many parents of exceptional children (exceptional in many ways) don’t even know that accommodations can be made for their children’s exceptions. Often these are immigrant parents who come from rigid systems and they figure that’s just how it works- “my kid is bored in school because these stupid Americans learn at a very slow pace” or “my kid is just slow to read and will always do poorly in all subjects”. </p>
<p>And then even among the non-immigrant parents, there are variations between parents who have had an older kid go through the system and parents who have an only child or an eldest child. </p>
<p>Of course, school systems don’t want to make too many of these exceptions, because every accommodation drains financial resources from the rest of the students.</p>
<p><So I should insist that we move to a whole new area to go to a better public school?</p>
<p>Sorry that I’m a sane person…? ></p>
<p>Nahh, you’re actually insane. You value where you live over the pursuit of a better education. Kind of sad, dude. Too lazy to move and do all the extra work?</p>
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<p>My daughter was a self-taught reader. When she was in kindergarten she came home one day and told me that she was bored in class, and that there was a little boy in her class who was allowed to go to the 1st grade classroom for math – she asked me if she could go read with the 1st graders. I said, “I don’t know – why don’t you write a letter to your teacher explaining how you feel and what you want. If you do that, I’ll take the letter to her and find out.” My daughter did that – and I followed through. </p>
<p>If my daughter could figure out at age 6, in kindergarten - to ask for an exception to be made in her case… then I can’t see why a high school student can’t figure out the same thing. </p>
<p>It’s not a matter of what a school offers. Public schools have limited funding, and teachers have to focus on the needs of large groups of students, not individuals. It’s unrealistic to expect that the teacher or school can anticipate the needs of students with needs that are far outside the norm.</p>
<p>Keilexandra-I agree.</p>
<p>All right, Tmac18 and I are on completely opposite ends.</p>
<p>Anybody else have any opinion on our points here?</p>
<p>He does have a point. I did go through ridiculous lenghts, in his view, “just” to have a a lot better education.</p>
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<p>Because too many six-year old girls, and for that matter, sixteen year old girls and boys have been raised to accept what has been dished out to them, and to not ask for special treatment. And their families may not know or care. But we need all these kids to reach their full potentials.</p>
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You miss the point – the accommodations often don’t exist UNTIL some student or parent asks for them. It is the initiative of the asker (who sometimes does more than merely ask) – that creates the opportunity. And in many cases the opportunity would not work if it were opened to others. The high school algebra teacher could accommodate one additional student in her class; maybe she could have accommodated 2 if pressed. But she didn’t have room for half a dozen – and the school wasn’t going to implement a new algebra program just because one kid and one parent asked for it. </p>
<p>It seems to me that if the need is great enough, the student will be motivated to ask. I mean – I don’t think Dumbledore should have sent home a letter to all Hogwarts parents explaining the availability of a Time-Turner – Professor McGonagall gave that to Hermione because she showed unique initiative and drive. Harry Potter readers don’t wonder why all the other students weren’t also given Time-Turners – it is clear from the outset that Hermione is far more highly motivated academically than the other students – and she certainly did not get that advantage from the intervention of her Muggle parents.</p>
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<p>Because other kids aren’t your kid. Other kids have different parents and upbringing. Other kids may not advocate for themselves very well for a whole host of reasons.</p>
<p>And I would maintain that it’s not necessarily a 9th or 10th grader’s job to handle the full burden of ensuring his education is appropriate for him. </p>
<p>What would have happened had that little boy in your daughter’s K class not been there to go to the 1st grade class for math? Would your daughter still have known to ask whether she could go to the 1st grade class for reading?</p>
<p><because too=“” many=“” six-year=“” old=“” girls,=“” and=“” for=“” that=“” matter,=“” sixteen=“” year=“” girls=“” boys=“” have=“” been=“” raised=“” to=“” accept=“” what=“” has=“” dished=“” out=“” them,=“” not=“” ask=“” special=“” treatment.=“” their=“” families=“” may=“” know=“” or=“” care.=“”></because></p>
<p>At least their cup is half-full and not half-empty. At least they’re a lot more happier with their education. It’s not all that bad.</p>
<p>I’m insane? Lmao. Because I’m not going to whine to my parents to move to a whole new city just because I want a “better” education? I’d have to move about an hour away from here to get that. You’re impossible.</p>
<p>Its high school education. Not college. You do realize that, right? I really don’t think you realize that what you learn in high school will not matter in the long run.</p>
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Hah. Yes, that was exactly my mother’s attitude. She had no idea that parents could do something about it.</p>
<p>calmom - Kudos to your daughter for being such a forward, self-sufficient kindergartener. At that age and time, I was in Newfoundland and perhaps one of five immigrant children in the school, having just taught myself English, with parents who barely spoke said language and whose culture teaches one to blend in–the opposite of being forward, such a valuable trait in American society. Is it a good thing to ask for an exception? I didn’t think so for a very long time, and that has nothing to do with my intelligence.</p>
<p>In middle school, I hadn’t yet picked up the nerve to “rebel” against my home culture. (A glance at my college list, full of LACs that my parents had never heard of, will tell you otherwise about the present me.) But let’s say I had come home and told my mother I was bored in class, could I go read with the next grade up–she would have said (in Chinese), “Suck it up, you read too much anyway.” And she is, on the absolute scale, a loving parent who cares very much about me!</p>
<p>If the high school algebra class can’t accommodate the number of qualified students who would have come forward IF they had known about the opportunity, then the accommodation should not be offered at all. Why is your child’s education more important than these other children’s, just because she/you asked?</p>
<p>melin - Not everyone’s parents are willing or able to change their primary residence for the sake of their children’s education. Those children should not be penalized for that.</p>
<p>melin, </p>
<p>Yes, I have an opinion on your point. Many families can’t move to accommodate the schooling wishes of one minor child. Your insistence that every other family do as your family did ignores the fact that other families don’t have your family’s exact same circumstances, possibilities, financial means, needs, locale, jobs, etc. and so on.</p>
<p>IOW, it’s at best silly (or stupid – take your pick) for you to carry on and insist that other people do what your family did.</p>
<p>You got lucky; this worked out for your family. Rejoice in that, but good grief, stop trying to insist that every other family could do exactly what your family did. They can’t.</p>
<p>tmac has an excellent point, but you have too narrow a world view to see it.</p>
<p>Also, I laughed at Calmom’s excellent example of the Time-Turner from Harry Potter. :D</p>
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<p>Part of the “potential” is one of showing initiative. Not every kid who is good with computers is a Bill Gates in the making – what sets the rule-benders apart is often an innate, internal creative drive. </p>
<p>But I do have some advice for parents who would like to see their kids develop better self-advocacy skills: it doesn’t help if the parent is always pushing the kid to achieve, worrying about the kid getting the highest grades, or test scores, or being on the top track. The first lesson the kid gets in “accepting what is dished out” is from the parents. The kids who are comfortable asking for exceptions aren’t afraid of failure, and they aren’t afraid of being told no. The kids “full potential” is NOT the highest academic level they can achieve – it involves social and emotional growth as well as intellectual growth, and intellectual/academic growth can be lateral as well as vertical. (That is… instead of asking what the next highest math level is, “savvy” parents are often asking, “what other kinds of math can my kid explore” or “what other activities involving math can my kid be involved in”).</p>
<p>And melin, you remind me of a woman who wrote into the Washington Post Gridlock – local area traffic – column that everyone should do as she had done to minimize their traffic problems: live within walking distance of work. </p>
<p>I wrote in, wondering what she would suggest for my family, since our home was in a suburb, I worked downtown, my then-husband a 40-minute drive in a different direction in the suburbs and our son in a special ed school a 40-minute drive in a completely different direction. </p>
<p>You are that woman who lives within walking distance of her job; just because you can walk to work doesn’t mean everyone is able to arrange their lives similarly.</p>
<p>^^ Therefore, a kid good with computers who doesn’t like bending/breaking rules, does not have an innate creative drive? Universally? What evidence do you have for this?</p>
<p>Personally, I know a girl–one of my close friends–one of the quietest, most reserved people I’ve ever met. And she definitely has an innate talent for programming. In this case, her parents are her advocates; but what if she didn’t have such “savvy” parents? How does that change her innate potential or ability?</p>
<p><<And melin, you remind me of a woman who wrote into the Washington Post Gridlock – local area traffic – column that everyone should do as she had done to minimize their traffic problems: live within walking distance of work. </p>
<p>I wrote in, wondering what she would suggest for my family, since our home was in a suburb, I worked downtown, my then-husband a 40-minute drive in a different direction in the suburbs and our son in a special ed school a 40-minute drive in a completely different direction. </p>
<p>You are that woman who lives within walking distance of her job; just because you can walk to work doesn’t mean everyone is able to arrange their lives similarly. >></p>
<p>I thought I said that the problem is not that they can’t do it, it’s that they don’t even THINK of or TRY doing it. Seriously, did your son or daughter or you yourself ever thought of researching and trying to move to a different place for better education? If you do ALL you can and fail in the end to “arrange” your life differently, FINE. But guess what? Most people DON’T even TRY. </p>
<p>And I don’t believe the average high school student even THINK of it, let alone do his damn research to see if he has any luck that I have.</p>
<p>Calmom mentioned initiative. Do you or any other high school you know even take the initiative? No, they never did, never tried. So they got nothing to say in this. Good things don’t always come to those who wait.</p>
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<p>Yes, and my son asked me. Not his teachers, towards whom he had significant fear of authority as a first grader, but his mother whom he felt much more comfortable with. I ended up mentioning it to his teacher about his boredom and she said “Oh, I suppose we could get him tested for our GT program.” And despite being a highly educated professional, I had no idea what gifted and talented was, or what could be done. First time parent and all that. However, if I had not said something, she would not have had him evaluated of her own initiative. </p>
<p>Then in 5th grade he was miserable. His teacher, completely aware of the situation, was absolutely no help. In fact, she probably made things worse for him in retrospect. The principal suggested to a friend, in response to being told of her sons boredom, that the student be tested for ‘an enzyme deficiency.’ I heard about grade acceleration from a source outside school, spoke to my son who wanted to pursue it, spoke to authorities, ended up convening a committee to evaluate the situation and pushed it through over his 5th grade teachers objections. His GT teacher was all for it, and it was probably the best thing, and the only thing, we could have done for him short of moving out of state.
Truthfully, there is nothing DS could have done with that teacher and that principal as a 5th grader and even as a 16 year old. Inertia is very strong in many school situations.</p>
<p>This experience was instructive enough to me that I then went to work with the school district and had them develop a policy and procedure for grade and subject acceleration so that other students, who are not ‘fortunate’ enough to have pushy parents, could also be evaluated for appropriateness of acceleration. I am happy to report that not insignificant number of students (including my DD) are benefiting from this P/P. </p>
<p>I think if a child, especially a young one, recognizes the inadequacy of the situation, that is enough. It is not their responsibility to come up with the solution, but rather the parent, the teacher and the schools.</p>
<p>calmom, I’m repeating my questions to you because I suspect they have gotten lost in the melee. :)</p>
<p>What would have happened had that little boy in your daughter’s K class not been there to go to the 1st grade class for math? Would your daughter still have known to ask whether she could go to the 1st grade class for reading?</p>
<p>melin,</p>
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<p>No, we didn’t thought of it, but we did think of it. Many many people consider school systems when they are buying a home; ask any Realtor.</p>