<p>Grow up, melon. Kids aren’t responsible for the quality of the school they go to.</p>
<p>Schools need to have some flexibility for students who are the high achieving outliers. When S was in MS, I had no idea that by the time he was a sophomore, the next level classes he qualified for in math and Spanish would be AP Calc BC and AP Spanish Language. Very few sophs were taking an AP other than AP Euro, which S decided near the end of schedule selection to add as well. </p>
<p>Seriously, what was he supposed to do if the school said only one or no APs for sophomores, twiddle his fingers for a year (in math, that can be the really wrong thing to do.) The AP coordinator at the HS had her doubts (she happened to be the AP Euro teacher though, so she wasn’t going to tell him he couldn’t take her class.) She finally ended up shrugging her shoulders and acknowledged that these were the next level classes. As it turned out, AP Euro was his toughest class, primarily due to the volume of reading and S’s first introduction to the AP social science class style of learning, which I was thrilled to have him experience, painful as it was sometimes.</p>
<p>Did he work hard? Yes, he certainly did. Did it impinge on the rest of his life? Yes, sometime but not that often. The fact that he learned that is something good for him to know going forward, to college and beyond. To wit, sometimes important things in life will occasionally require you to focus is so intensely that the more “fun” things in life will have to take a back seat … but will be waiting for you later.</p>
<p>^^I would tell you that if he’d had a magnet/private school nearby with a much more difficult courseload, he would have been there happily. Unfortunately, there is not a single one in the entire state. One of the questions we have asked other students from this state that are attending T10 schools was whether they felt they were properly prepared. Mostly they said, it wasn’t too bad as a freshmen. These are bright kids however. </p>
<p>What I have learned is that college admissions is just not very fair. Why do the athletes and legacies get in front of all others etc. It is what it is.</p>
<p>marite: I don’t like the cruising part either. We tried EPGY, didn’t like. I honestly don’t think the local college courses would be any better. Didn’t want to send him to a boarding school, so I sort of gave up. DS is not unhappy, not causing trouble, and teachers mostly love him. He is looking forward to going to college and having to work hard.</p>
<p>FAP: The principal at DS’s elem school insisted no one had skipped a grade in many years because the school was so good at meeting each childs individual needs. Yea, right. We couldn’t wait to get out of there. It would be wonderful if schools could meet needs of high achieving children. Just doesn’t happen in a lot of places, even with parental squawking.</p>
<p><kids aren’t=“” responsible=“” for=“” the=“” quality=“” of=“” school=“” they=“” go=“” to.=“”> </kids></p>
<p>Oh, yeah? I used to live in another county until I did some research and came up with my current IB program. I convinced my parents to move, and they did, and now I attend this school (of course, I can’t be 100% responsible for this; he had to sacrifice 30 minute drive to work for me). I can also attend the zoned school where I live, which is a lot easier than the IB program. Of course, everyone at my zoned school can enroll at IB if they wanted to; they just don’t (too scared). </p>
<p>There are 4 high schools in this district that my IB school accepts and send out long-distance buses (spending more money at the same time) to pick students up from. </p>
<p>In short, I CHOSE the quality of the school I went to. I could’ve stayed in the old county where the high school was not as challenging. I could’ve also went to the zoned high school where I live now, which is better than my old one, but not as good as the IB magnet program.</p>
<p>I don’t know what your problem is, but I did my research and convincing to end up where I am right now.</p>
<p>You see, I don’t believe in this “parents choose locations and you can’t do jack” nonsense. I could’ve easily moved to an even easier school, and graduate top of the class, and fill my parents’ head with complete crap of how colleges only look at the contex of your school so easier school wouldn’t hurt me. They would’ve believed me and went for it.</p>
<p>But, oh well, I chose the more rigorous one so I can compete with others who take things seriously.</p>
<p>You’re probably just angry that your high school sucks or something and that you didn’t do anything about it.</p>
<p>Melin-for many people, choosing a HS is just not an option. They go to whatever public school that they live nearest because that is where they are forced to go unless they go to a private school, which will only cost more money and take away from a more important college fund.</p>
<p>There aren’t “secret tracks”. There are exceptions to rules that are made for those who seek them out… but probably only when the teachers or school can also see the need. </p>
<p>My son was the ONLY kid in his 8th grade class to take algebra – he did it by starting his day at the local high school, and then walking back to re-join his 8th grade class 6 blocks away. That wasn’t a “secret track” – it was an accommodation made for a kid who tested out at 99th percentile on standardized math tests and needed a faster math track. </p>
<p>This really is NOT about “savvy parenting”. The last thing that was ever on my mind was trying to get either of my kids pushed ahead of others, or positioning them for college. In fact, I unsuccessfully tried to talk my son OUT of taking AP English, and I wholeheartedly supported my daughter’s choice to opt for honors rather than AP classes in some instances. (Or maybe it IS “savvy parenting” – but what is “savvy” about it is that I instilled good self-advocacy skills in my kids and that I avoided the temptation to see education as a competitive endeavor.)</p>
<p><melin-for many=“” people,=“” choosing=“” a=“” hs=“” is=“” just=“” not=“” an=“” option.=“”></melin-for></p>
<p>I tried my best to go to the best public education possible. I can’t take all the credit for succeeding (my parents had to agree and drive longer to work, you see, and I had to do the research AND have the luck of finding one), but at least I TOOK THE INITIATIVE.</p>
<p>Most students… They just sit at home thinking “I don’t have a choice I have to go to this high school blah blah blah.” So, yeah, they get what they deserve. At least partly.</p>
<p>You can think of me being against this whole “college only look at you based on the contex of your high school” concept as very personal and subjective.</p>
<p>Way to only quote part of my post and respond to that. I explained why many people cannot choose their high school. I don’t know where you live, but in my state, you HAVE to go to the high school according to your district if you want to go to public school. Its not a question of driving further, it is actually a question of moving to a completely different area.</p>
<p>ihs: I hear you. I’m not sure that S would have liked distance learning, either. Sometimes, there are not very good options. That is why colleges must make allowances.</p>
<p>Rules should not have exceptions unless those exceptions are offered to everyone. For every kid with savvy parents (where I define savvy as forward advocates, common in the CC parent population but not otherwise), there’s an equally gifted kid with well-meaning but ignorant parents. I was prepared for Algebra I in 6th grade (the track skips geometry completely until HS), but I took Pre-Algebra because that was the highest “official” math track. Now, if the year after me the admin decided to allow ALL interested and capable 6th graders into Algebra I, that’s fine–I just got unlucky with timing. But to make an unpublicized exception for just a few students is simply wrong, aimed at saving themselves work instead of meeting students’ needs.</p>
<p><. I don’t know where you live, but in my state, you HAVE to go to the high school according to your district if you want to go to public school.></p>
<p>I MOVED to a different district. We’re not freakin’ hermits, you know. The high school at my old district sucked.</p>
<p>But mine IS a magnet program, so I don’t believe your district restriction rule applies. Students from 4 different high schools can choose to enroll in our more rigorous program or choose to stay. Those who dropout of our IB program, gets sent back to his/her zoned high school. </p>
<p>My parents and I moved here from a different county so I can be in this 4-to-1 circle and go to the IB program. If you haven’t read the whole story, it’s up there.</p>
<p><way to=“” only=“” quote=“” part=“” of=“” my=“” post=“” and=“” respond=“” that.=“”></way></p>
<p>Way to misinterpret my answers and respond to that. I was talking about students like me who take initiative to find better schools and convincing the parents to move there despite sacrifices. Do you see the word MOVE? M-O-V-E? You don’t have to go to your little restricted public school if you move somewhere else do you? And what does my reponse have anything to do with the rest of your explanation? I didn’t have to quote it. It was irrelevant.</p>
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<p>There would always be exceptional students who need and deserve changes and accommodations from a set curriculum. That doesn’t always mean acceleration or advancement – it could also be allowing a student to opt for a slower pace than typical to address some weakness. </p>
<p>If a kid functions at 99th+ percentile level in a given subject area, then that kid’s educational needs are not the same as “everyone’s”. It’s not fair to that kid, to the other kids, or the teachers to decree either that what is offered to a kid who is an outlier has to be offered to “everyone” – OR that the kid is to be denied appropriate educational challenge or advancement because of some slippery-slope rationale (“if we allow your kid to take AP calculus in 10th grade, then we will have to allow everyone else to do it too”)</p>
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<p>Can’t speak for others, but both my ex and I DID ask teachers how best to keep our kid properly challenged. Most teachers had no idea how to do this. We worked with one teacher/school for over a year trying to get decent (or even some) math instruction for our son from the school. Lots of lip service, but no action. </p>
<p>So we purchased EPGY math for our kid, met with the school and said, “We want him doing this in the library at least four periods a week.” The school agreed. The teacher asked me what I saw her role being, where she fit into the kid’s math instruction. I told her, “Well, you’d be the tertiary source. Primary is the distance learning, secondary is his EPGY tutor, and then if he still needs help, you would step in.”</p>
<p>THAT need never arose!!</p>
<p>The following year, though the school moved the kid up to the next grade’s math class, none of that material was new, so he continued with EPGY math at home.</p>
<p>And so on.</p>
<p>It’s exceedingly hard for a classroom science teacher with a class of 38 - 40 students to differentiate instruction. “Keep a child challenged” often means giving the child more of the same work. </p>
<p>If you were to ask my ex where our son was educated as a child, he would tell you, “At home; we home-schooled him.” Kid went to school every day, but he did the vast majority of his learning at home.</p>
<p>calmom - I tested at 760 in CR and W in 8th grade (for CTY; otherwise I’d never have taken the SAT). Haven’t checked, but I’m pretty sure that’s 99th+ percentile. Did my parents or I push the admin to accommodate me? Nope. Should they have? --Perhaps, but IMO the burden is on the SCHOOL to make such opportunities known to EVERYONE if they are available. The school can require proof of 99th percentile ability, or some similar bar of ability–but the opportunity, even/especially as an exception to a rule, shouldn’t be a secret. An opportunity offered to an outlier should be offered to everyone–and then those interested out of “everyone” must show similar evidence of being an equal or greater outlier.</p>
<p>So I should insist that we move to a whole new area to go to a better public school?</p>
<p>Sorry that I’m a sane person…?</p>
<p>
Did you ask your teacher or school counselor if there was a way you to take advanced math courses? Would your math grades and scores on standardized tests or a placement exam have supported such a request? </p>
<p>The reason my son was the only kid in his 8th grade class taking algebra is that when he was in 7th grade, he told his teacher that he was bored with the math and asked if he could do some sort of independent study with more advance math. She agreed and gave him an algebra text book to work with - he was supposed to work on his own, at his own pace, and turn in homework as appropriate. But it didn’t work well because she didn’t have time to help him if he had questions, and I found that when he came to me with questions that I wasn’t able to help either. Hence the arrangement the following year to take algebra at the local high school.</p>
<p>One thing that colleges like to see for kids who have attended high schools with limited opportunities is kids who have found way to challenge themselves outside of high school. It doesn’t have to necessarily be an academic challenge or even a formal, structured class – it could be a kid who pursues a different passion or an independent hobby or project on their own. But kids like that really don’t fit an “everybody” mold.</p>
<p>Owlice:</p>
<p>Since I posed the question and you responded, let me amplify. My question was addressed to those posters who seemed to think that “savvy and involved” parents with advanced children were waiting for teachers to tell them what to do. In my experience, only one teacher alerted us to the fact that our child would not find the 8th grade science curriculum challenging enough. He did so early enough that we were able to plan ahead. Other teachers were aware that our child was well beyond his grade in certain areas, but did not know how to address his needs. So we did the research and worked together with teachers to make it possible for him to be advanced. In many ways, you did the same thing: you asked and found that teachers could not meet your child’s needs.
And you found a solution that worked for your child.
Neither you nor we relied entirely on our children’s grade level teachers to provide them with an appropriate education, for the very reason you cite–it is impossible to provide individually tailored education to a whole class of students (ours had 20, not 38, but the idea is the same).</p>
<p>
The opportunities weren’t “available” until we asked for them. And I doubt that we would have been able to arrange such opportunities if we had demanded that the school change its curriculum rather than accommodate an individual student.</p>
<p>calmom - Nope. My schooling history is a consistent record of following rules without question. My point is that the school should be offering these opportunities–i.e. if Pre-Algebra isn’t actually the highest possible math track, say so–to everyone and not just to people with strong advocate parents.</p>
<p>So the school accommodated an individual student, for the first time–did it then offer this accommodation to other high-achieving math students? (E.g. Every student with high As in math receives a parent letter home.) There is a difference in philosophy here–if the school, for reasons of bureaucracy, is unwilling to offer such accommodation to all reasonable candidates, then I would rather the accommodation not be offered at all. That is what fair means.</p>
<p>keilalexandra.</p>
<p>No. The responsibility is the parents’ and the students’. I do not think we told the teachers what our S scored on his SAT (also taken for CTY). But we did approach the math teacher and told him what our S already knew of the math curriculum for the next two grades and he allowed my S to skip ahead after checking that S did actually know the materials. We also had to make special arrangements for S to go to the high school for AP-Physics. That involved a huge reshuffling of his schedule, the permission of all the k-8 teachers, of the high school teacher and the high school principal as well as the k-8 principal. It was our job to make sure everyone was okay with the arrangement. It took quite a bit of effort, but after all, it was our kid’s education; we were grateful that everyone was so accommodating.</p>
<p>Keil: You seem to confuse making special accommodations available to all who qualify and publicizing them. My S was not the only student for whom special accommodations were made. But to my knowledge, such accommodations, which by their very nature were rare, were not publicized. I don’t see any unfairness about it.</p>