<p>Curious…while I know most classes are challenging, what do you find to be the hardest major(s) at D? Or classes?</p>
<p>Are the classes with labs also more demanding (time-wise, etc)?</p>
<p>The sciences are hard, because there are labs and, for some, problem sets. Very time-consuming. Of course, what’s easy for some is hard for others.</p>
<p>Science courses are difficult at EVERY college. They are full of premeds and typically have much harsher curves than hume/lit courses. Outside of the sciences, Econ is probably the next most difficult major.</p>
<p>I can remember where I read this but about half of the freshmen at Dartmouth who intend to major in science graduate with a non-science degree. That’s not to say that the difficulty of these majors is the only reason students switch majors.</p>
<p>How is engineering? Is it hard?</p>
<p>This recent opinion piece in the D may have some bearing on the discussion.
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<p>[TheDartmouth.com:</a> Solomon: Department Double Standard](<a href=“http://thedartmouth.com/2011/02/15/opinion/solomon]TheDartmouth.com:”>http://thedartmouth.com/2011/02/15/opinion/solomon)</p>
<p>And despite this, CC is full of kids desperately attempting to avoid taking languages because they find them too difficult. The average grade seems to have little to do with the difficulty of actually mastering the subject. I think that most people would agree–even people who are talented in that regard–that Chinese and Russian, for example, are very difficult languages to learn.</p>
<p>Perhaps it is just that most of the people who take language courses do so because A) they love the subject for its own sake, and B) they are good at it, while many kids take econ, chem, bio, etc because they are required for certain career paths.</p>
<p>Reported average grades can be misleading. How many bad chemistry grades come from theater and language majors? What are the chemistry, math, econ, and physics grades for people majoring in those subjects?</p>
<p>The hardest majors at any school are the sciences and math-based subjects.</p>
<p>I assure you that very, very few theater majors have the guts to take chemistry at Dartmouth.</p>
<p>My daughter is a chemistry major at Dartmouth currently and I can vouch that it is quite challenging. The labs and the lab write ups are time consuming, and since the pitching during lectures is very fast you have to seriously stay on top of the work. She loves it though! Her professors have been tremendously supportive and want her to show up at office hours to ask questions.</p>
<p>I think I would do horribly with languages, always did. Very bad at pronouncing, but my daughter loves languages. Her dad could speak 5 or more; so maybe that is what she got from him. The CHEM is tough per my D. She is debating. Her highschool was great at history/math, but not science so going in w/many that had AP, etc. is tough. I do hear the hours are tough with the labs, etc. Language does have daily drills, etc. but she tends to love it.</p>
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<p>Chinese, yes; Russian no. Once you learn the cyrillic alphabet, the basics are pretty easy.</p>
<p>With the exception of some difficult ones like Chinese, languages are generally a gpa-booster at most colleges. Sure, Arabic is extremely hard, but many colleges are just starting to teach it so even the Profs have to learn to adjust to the correct level.</p>
<p>D was thinking of taking Arabic, thought about going to one of the countries for a abroad program one day (not now, but maybe one day).</p>
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<p>You are the first person I have ever heard voice this opinion, including native Russian speakers. Of course, it depends what you are comparing it to, and it depends what level of written and spoken mastery is the goal.</p>
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<p>Frankly, I think these are unsupported generalizations. In addition, the grading of the subject has nothing to do with the difficulty of mastering it. On the D list, anthropology was listed as one of the lower-grading departments, lower-grading than Chinese and Arabic. I doubt you would suggest that anthropology is more difficult to master than those languages.</p>
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<p>Yes, and ‘mastery’ is the key word since few colleges have the resources to get there. The point is that the common first year & second year language courses are curved quite generously. As they should be since a first year language sequence is nothing but HS level work, just compacted. Frosh language in college is the approximate level of two years in high school. Even Rassias teaches ~one quarter of intensive language in 10-days! And this is for beginners, with absolutely zero prior language. Try learning a quarter of Chem in 10 days without ever having taken it before. Heck, try learning chem over a quarter without ever having taken it in HS.</p>
<p>Even Dartmouth’s Russian majors take their many upper divisions classes in ENGLISH. And bcos advanced grammar in a language does not a BA make.</p>
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<p>I would say that an ‘ology’ major can be more difficult than a language major, absolutely. It’s all a matter of where a Prof draws the curve. If the average grade in Lang 1 is an A and the average grade in other course 1 is a C+/B-…</p>
<p>Dartmouth gives out a lot of C’s in Econ, for example, but clearly Penn and Columbia do not. Does that make Dartmouth’s econ more difficult to ‘master’ relative to their Ivy colleagues? </p>
<p>btw: perhaps the kids should have chosen the urban Ivies…:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1089116-penn-mulls-grade-inflation-after-leaks.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1089116-penn-mulls-grade-inflation-after-leaks.html</a></p>
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<p>That is precisely my point. Grading scale doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the difficulty of mastering the material.</p>
<p>Median grades don’t mean all THAT much. Every class still gives out A’s. You put in the effort… you’ll get an A. </p>
<p>That being said, consider that a 3.24 median in chemistry isn’t all that bad. It’s slightly lower than a B+… which is a very high median. </p>
<p>Very few arts majors will have the guts to take chem. You’re stuck with either chem 5 or 10… and very few people will get into chem 10 (honors gen chem). Chem 5’s a notorious weeder and will kill your GPA. </p>
<p>Econ’s always been a tougher group of classes. However, the department curves all of its classes (possibly excepting the honors 80, 81, 82 classes…) to a B. </p>
<p>I’m surprised math’s average is so low. They’re tough classes, but the average has been pretty high in my experience. Guess it really depends on the prof… A point to note: take an HONORS versions of the math classes if you can. The median’s usually an A-/A. However, you’re in a class with much smarter people that will probably major. You’ll put in much more effort into the class normally. However, the exams will be slighty easier, and the curves will be much better. </p>
<p>You also really have to wonder how much these medians mean. Consider econ for example. Something like 25% of Dartmouth students are econ majors, and it’s one of the most popular. A ton of athletes are in it. Not to knock athletes or anything, but the amount of time you spend on the field/court and in the gym puts you at a distinct disadvantage. Study hard, and the econ classes really aren’t that bad. I’m in econometrics which is reputed to be the second hardest econ class after Kohn/Zinman’s Econ 26 (Intermediaries and Finance?). It’s really not a bad class. It’s interesting, it’s engaging, and it’s pretty cool. I haven’t put too much work into it, and I’m doing fine. Have a midterm tomorrow though… so I better get off CC!!!</p>
<p>I’m going to go ahead and say chemistry.</p>
<p>I’m going to say in terms of workload, Physics and Engineering are harder than Chemistry. In terms of “getting a good grade”, data shows Chem is harder. Chem classes are predominantly graded based on tests (usually ~90% of your grade is from exams) whereas Physics and Engs have time consuming problem sets in addition to labs like Chem, except the writeups tend to count for more and therefore take more time.</p>
<p>"That is precisely my point. Grading scale doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the difficulty of mastering the material. "</p>
<p>The curve can kill some and it seems if they want to encourage more students to take science/math classes, the curve isn’t a great way to encourage them. There is all this talk in the US that we are falling behind in math/sciences, etc. than you would want to encourage more. I don’t mean to dummy down the class, but when you see some classes with an average test grade less than passing, there is something a bit off. That is me, as parent looking from afar.</p>