<p>I drive a 1998 minivan (American make). My husband does the work on it and I love it. No one in my family owns an SUV but I have nothing against those who do. Will admit that my husband splurged and bought a used Acura a while ago. Knowing him he’ll still be driving it ten years from now.</p>
<p>We don’t have to drive older cars. We just do. Do you understand that a lot of so-called wealthy people are simply very careful with their money? And this same approach to life also carries over to the work world where they are conscientious, responsible and often prove themselves to be very good investments by their employers. That’s how they get to be wealthy.</p>
<p>That’s also how they get to the “enviable” position of having to pay $200K to send their kid to a prestigious private school - essentially their entire accumulated wealth outside of retirement funds. Again, it’s a choice - one we question daily.</p>
<p>And please take note: I have nothing against those taking advantage of the FA model. I simply question the wisdom of the current model. I think it inflates the cost of tuition like all subsidies.</p>
<p>And Caden, my dad also was on the GI bill. No one made it contingent on his family’s income. He was judged to be an adult and independent - which I think is appropriate.</p>
<p>KM is clearly not “disdainful” of lower income students. She, and I, simply don’t think that being lower income actually makes you more deserving than the students whose families have more money.</p>
<p>I’ve beating this drum since I got here. We have a very good income. We do so because my husband works two jobs and I work a lot of overtime. Anyone who chose could go and get a second job to up their income, but most choose not to do so. Which is fine, but my kids shouldn’t be handicapped because my husband works harder than most. In fact, since we pay more in taxes, they should get a leg-up for our hard work.</p>
<p>Speaking as someone who is no fan of socialism and is politically conservative, I am most unhappy with your attempt to inject this label into a discussion of how universities try to enrich their undergraduate programs by enrolling students from a variety of demographic backgrounds.</p>
<p>Vanderbilt is a far better place now than it was a generation or two ago. If it weren’t, my son wouldn’t be there. </p>
<p>That doesn’t mean I think the current system is entirely fair or can be sustained. However, your (and others) mean-spirited comments about supposed character flaws of students on need-based aid are jaw-dropping.</p>
<p>Never thought I’d hear such vitriol directed against children of low-income families, their parents and institutions like Harvard, Yale, and the Federal Government and State Governments. All because these institutions are seeking to open doors of opportunity to every kid who has the initiative, the accomplishments and the desire to succeed. </p>
<p>Kentuckymom and sewhappy, you benefited through the last eight years of government intiated tax cuts that were almost exclusively directed at you. If you are this agitated at the fact that private third parties like Universities choose to use their endowments to support highly qualified needy kids, I wonder what you will do when the tax cuts for rich people end in 2011 and you are asked to contribute your fair share to the work of Government?</p>
<p>“Why can’t these families pay the $48K that we will this coming year? Too stupid? Too lazy? Too selfish to pursue professions by which they can support their kids’ dreams but that they perhaps find too onerous?”</p>
<p>Are you for real? Dh is a doctor; I’m a business consultant. We’ve worked hard, to be sure; but we’ve also had opportunities that many other people don’t have, including OUR educations paid for by parents who worked their butts off to do so.</p>
<p>I’m supposed to look down, on say, dh’s employees who are nurses and receptionists but not doctors? On my employees who do the administrative work that supports me in my consulting job? They must just be “stupid, lazy or selfish” that they aren’t a six-figure earning doctor or a six-figure earning consultant?</p>
<p>Do you look down on someone like Zoosermom, for example, whose husband is a garbage collector? Do her kids not “deserve” to look beyond what they might be able to afford?</p>
<p>It’s all so ugly. So non-gracious. You’re FORTUNATE. Enjoy it.</p>
<p>KM - You have lived a very sheltered life if you believe low income families have chosen to be low income or that they are low income because they are slackers. You may have been happier if you never found cc and therfore never saw the fin aid packages of others. You have said that you were wise and forward thinking in planning for your daughter’s education but you also say she, at 18, is wishing to take on the college costs herself in order to be financially independent. Did your daughter apply for FA at Vanderbilt and get nothing? Did she recieve any merit awards or was she cheated out of those too seeing that she has better stats that so many who have posted.</p>
We can afford a lot more than one might think, and the numbers simply don’t tell the story. If you look at our income, we are “rich.” But if you look closer, my husband can’t read and has spent decades picking up garbage and stocking supermarket shelves for 70+ hours a week for decades so our kids can do better. Are we so awful because we have the income? Are my kids less deserving than our next-door neighbors who have always worked exactly as long as they have to to collect unemployment over and over. Their kid is seen as “poor” and deserving, but what our kids have overcome doesn’t count because of the dollar figures.</p>
You have lived a very sheltered life if you believe there aren’t low income families whose parents are slackers. (Says White Trash Mom, who knows firsthand)</p>
<p>sewhappy, you want to voluntarily downsize your income, which means you aren’t living with less income at the moment. I made no assumptions about penury in your past; if you’re paying full freight now, the chances are excellent that you have either an above-average income, substantial savings, or both.</p>
<p>And sure, I know all about taking public transportation to save money, and driving a car from the previous millennium, as I do that myself. (Yes, I have a car!) Pack a lunch, too.</p>
<p>Hard_Knocks, let me know how that living beyond your means thing works out for you. I don’t see a lot of middle-class people who live beyond their incomes getting great financial aid and being able to afford expensive schools; do you?</p>
<p>So I guess kentucky, Hard_K, and sew – are you against merit aid, too? That’s got to come from somewhere, after all.</p>
<p>“Brilliant kids” generally receive merit aid–often full rides–to many outstanding schools…so I don’t see why we’d be arguing about need-based aid.
On another subject, if we’re conversing with people who belittle the value of diversity, I’m afraid we’ve reached an impasse.
I do appreciate the voices of reason that are on this thread, like midmo and goodschoolhopefully.<br>
Is it the economy that has brought out this “me first” spirit in people, or have they felt this way all along?</p>
<p>And who’s worked harder, for example … ZM’s husband working 70 hours a week picking up garbage and stocking supermarket shelves or my husband working 70 hours a week practicing medicine? Guess what, Kentucky mom - it’s not a contest. They both work hard. The world needs everyone who does a honest day’s work … not just lawyers and doctors and bankers and bigwigs.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, your husband undoubtedly works hard and I’m grateful for the services of doctors. But it’s not a question of who works harder. It’s a question of looking beyond the adjusted gross income. Your kids have advantages that mine could only imagine simply because you and your husband are educated and have experience in this area, and my kids have had to deal with their dad’s handicap in ways that yours couldn’t imagine. Not better or worse. Just more than the AGI would explain. My kids are not more worthy than poor kids but they aren’t less worthy either.</p>
<p>TNVandyParent - thanks - Pizzagirl is not bad either. I appreciate people with money who are kind hearted and in touch with the efforts of those “on the other side of the tracks”. When I make some cash because I had a great college education I will make sure I contribute to a school that gives need based aid - payback works and that’s why schools like Vandy will be able to continue helping those who need the help!</p>
<p>The financial aid situation for colleges has a lot of problems. I’ve always felt that it is not right that an 18 year old who is an adult for just about every other purpose (other than drinking alcohol) is considered a dependent for college financial aid purposes. STrangely enough, the colleges themselves treat these students as adults in terms of privacy and contractual and other issues too. Just in getting financial aid, they are tied to their parents. A kid whose parents refuse to complete the financial aid forms or pay for college is out in the cold until he is 24 years old or meets one of the other independence criteria. Not a thing he can do.</p>
<p>How does having a lower rate, that all pay, put poorer students at a disadvantage? Why would having a campus job and/or summer job and/or reasonable loan be a bad thing for anybody? I expect 18 year olds – old enough to vote and to enlist in the military – to be responsible.</p>