Harvard 2+2 Program

N2L48 · November 20, 2009, 2:36am

Hello, I recently stumbled across this program, and after a bit of research, I must say Im really interested in applying for this program.

I'm still a lower sophomore (34 Credits), and I've got 3 Semesters left until the deadline for the July 2011 July Application, since I plan to graduate in 2012.

I'm a current CUNY Student with a GPA of 3.5 enrolled in Btech, I've yet to take the GMATs. The average GPAs of the accepted 2009 Applicants were 3.73, and an average GMAT score of 727. Most were female, and Engineering/Life Science majors.

In the upcoming years, I plan to increase my GPA up to at least a 3.8, and score a GMAT score of 760 or higher. However, I'm still worried that my chances would still be pretty slim with those credentials alone because of my undergraduate school being average, being an Asian Male (I heard they're looking for diversity..), and lacking any "Outside" factors such as extracurriculars, and signs of leadership. I can't change who I am, nor can i change my school now. But I can work on strengthening my application through other means.

Can I get suggestions how I can do those? I heard volunteering at Soup Kitchens, and getting as much internship experience as possible are some ways. What are other ways to show leadership and improve my applications? I guess I just want to take the most of the following 1 1/2 years to make my application stand out as much as possible, with my academic standings to simply back it up.

Thanks in advance taking the time to read this.

Dawgie · November 20, 2009, 7:53am

3.5 to 3.8, good luck with that.

liu02bhs · November 22, 2009, 9:41pm

Unlike med school and law school, numbers doesn't carry as much weight for B-Schools. They look at the overall quality of an applicant. Schools like Harvard can fill their classes 3X over with applicants with 3.8+ and 760+. But they often choose applicants with lower numbers.

Dawgie · November 22, 2009, 9:59pm

Sure they do.

2plus2 · November 22, 2009, 10:34pm

Dawgie: Without outing my credentials entirely, I was accepted into 2+2 with a GPA in the range of what you're disparaging.

N2L: There's not much you can do about your GPA (and a 3.5 is certainly respectable, btw) at this point. I agree you should rock the GMAT. You should ALSO (this is important) get some leadership experience! You have no extracurriculars? What do you do in college - if all you do is study, your GPA should be a bit higher. You must be involved in some different things and if not, now's the time! Do you have solid work experience through internships? Also key. The way I see it, Harvard is looking for
1) Strong academics
2) Strong GMAT
3) Strong leadership, on campus and off

You are borderline on 1, don't know about 2, and say you don't think you have 3. Getting involved in school is the easiest (and most fun!) thing to change there.

As to what you should get involved in - I've said this on other threads: HBS recognizes and rewards passion. They get bored when it seems like you're doing it all for them. So think - what do YOU want to get involved in? What are YOU passionate about? And how can you translate that passion into involvement, innovation and leadership? The ideas should stem from there.

N2L48 · November 23, 2009, 3:35pm

First of all, thanks so much for the reply 2+2.

When I made this post, I had just gotten out of one of those HBS fares, and was certainly intimidated by the quality (and richness) of some of the applicants. And I just wanted to establish a game plan. I was worried because I lacked that ec factor. But here's what I plan.

1) Academics: 3.5 GPA (My Current) Goal: (3.8~3.9) by the end of Junior Year before I send my application to HBS 2+2.
2) GMATs: I just took a few sample questions and realized it's gonna be very difficult. But I definitely intend to take it once or twice and get a score of at least 727.
3)Extracurriculur: On-Campus: Student Government (Executive Board), Honors Scholars Program, Tau Phi Sigma, N. Collegiate Scholar. Off-Campis: Summer Internship (Summer before the application is due), Volunteer work at a Nursing Home/Church/Soup Kitchen.

Also, congratulations for being accepted into the 2+2 Program. I'd like to talk with you about your experience sometime, if you're not too busy!

overachiever91 · November 23, 2009, 4:02pm

Can you please explain in short what is this Harvard 2+2 program about?After you graduade from college,you work two years,and then start the MBA program ,or what ?

2plus2 · November 24, 2009, 7:30pm

overachiever: In short, yes. 2+2 is essentially deferred admission: apply your junior year of college, find out September of your senior year, work for two years and then start at HBS. It is designed for those who are not getting their BBAs though a few people who are studying business during undergrad get in each year.

N2L: I'm not sure where B-tech falls (ie, whether they will consider it a "business" undergrad, which makes standards much higher for your acceptance) but it's something you should check on. I understand being a little wowed by the profiles: though I don't feel I am one, a LOT of kids accepted into 2+2 are superstars.

[quote]
1) Academics: 3.5 GPA (My Current) Goal: (3.8~3.9) by the end of Junior Year before I send my application to HBS 2+2.

[/quote]

With 3 semesters before you apply, is it even possible to bring your cumulative GPA up to a 3.9? I would crunch the numbers; a 3.5 to a 3.9 is a pretty big leap. An upward trend will certainly be noticed and rewarded though.

[quote]
2) GMATs: I just took a few sample questions and realized it's gonna be very difficult. But I definitely intend to take it once or twice and get a score of at least 727.

[/quote]

Well, since the GMAT is scored in increments of 10, you'd have to score at least a 730. :-) Make sure to take it early enough that you allow yourself ample time for retake in case things don't go as planned.

[quote]
3)Extracurriculur: On-Campus: Student Government (Executive Board), Honors Scholars Program, Tau Phi Sigma, N. Collegiate Scholar. Off-Campis: Summer Internship (Summer before the application is due), Volunteer work at a Nursing Home/Church/Soup Kitchen.

[/quote]

I'm not entirely sure if you've already done some of these activities or if you're planning on it -- hopefully, some of these things you're already involved in. My only concern is that some of these just look like awards/distinctions (N. Collegiate Scholar? Honors Scholars?) and there is a separate category for that on the app. Those ECs probably won't blow anyone's mind though (especially miscellaneous volunteering - much better to find a program that you are PASSIONATE about and somehow ties into your future interests). Where is your opportunity for leadership? Where are you taking initiative? These are things you need to consider, particularly as you come into the final year before your application is due.

Internship-wise, both this summer and next (ie, the summer that you are applying), having a meaningful internship is key. A lot of your app may be generated on the work that you do this summer (your first internship) so make sure you keep your eyes open for opportunities to make a quantifiable difference.

N2L48 · November 24, 2009, 8:15pm

[quote]
N2L: I'm not sure where B-tech falls (ie, whether they will consider it a "business" undergrad, which makes standards much higher for your acceptance) but it's something you should check on. I understand being a little wowed by the profiles: though I don't feel I am one, a LOT of kids accepted into 2+2 are superstars.

[/quote]

B-Tech, Bachelor's in technology (Computer Science) I believe would be considered a Computer or Engineering. I did some research and know that Business majors won't get much out of this program.

[quote]
1) With 3 semesters before you apply, is it even possible to bring your cumulative GPA up to a 3.9? I would crunch the numbers; a 3.5 to a 3.9 is a pretty big leap. An upward trend will certainly be noticed and rewarded though

[/quote]

There was some financial problems near the end of my semester, preventing me from taking a finals for one of my classes. Instead of getting the C, I instead asked for a D so I could retake the class. My first Semester consisted of 2 A's, 1 B+ and 1 D, giving me a 2.9. 2 Semesters later (10 classes) of all A's I managed to bring it up to 3.5. Retaking that class this semester according to my numbers gives me around 3.8. Of course I'm worried about that D being prodded, but I can call that my freshman mistake and make up for by the constant A's till I graduate.

[Quote]
I'm not entirely sure if you've already done some of these activities or if you're planning on it -- hopefully, some of these things you're already involved in. My only concern is that some of these just look like awards/distinctions (N. Collegiate Scholar? Honors Scholars?) and there is a separate category for that on the app. Those ECs probably won't blow anyone's mind though (especially miscellaneous volunteering - much better to find a program that you are PASSIONATE about and somehow ties into your future interests). Where is your opportunity for leadership? Where are you taking initiative? These are things you need to consider, particularly as you come into the final year before your application is due.

[/quote]

I recently considered HBS. The various honors programs offered (HSP,NCS) at my college that I mentioned, I had planned on joining before I decided to apply, once I reached the appropriate averages. I know for a fact that these programs won't really give my application too much, but I'm doing it mainly because I want to expand my options, get involved, and see what opportunities are available for me. As for the misc volunteering, it's also more towards about experiencing stuff, and it might also give me something to write about as a potential essay question if something interesting happens.

The "Passionate" part is tricky, and what I'm having problems with, but i can see it being a valuable asset to an application. I intend to dig deeper and find something soon, I hope. As for leadership opportunities, thats another big problem i seem to come across. Thats why I intended to join those honors programs I mentioned earlier, to explore opportunities. But if you have any other suggestions, feel free to suggest.

[quote]
Internship-wise, both this summer and next (ie, the summer that you are applying), having a meaningful internship is key. A lot of your app may be generated on the work that you do this summer (your first internship) so make sure you keep your eyes open for opportunities to make a quantifiable difference.

[/quote]

I'm hoping to fill both summers up with internships. All in all, it's pretty intimidating, with what I'm starting with, and my current background. But still, I intend to give it my all.

Again, thanks a lot for the response, its a huge help.

comoseva · December 15, 2009, 10:02pm

As for your "passionate" question, do something you love, not for the title or because it sounds cool. The leadership should be able to flow from there.
By the way, I plan on applying then too. Haha, should be fun.

MVchaser08 · December 28, 2009, 10:56pm

I was reading through some of the literature for this program and I have a few questions:

<ol>
<li>During the two years after graduation before entering HBS, must a student take on jobs that last one year each? It seems like the accepted student is required to be on campus during that summer between the two work years for some sort of academic class. Did I misinterpret?</li>
<li>Is it a problem if our internships are currently business oriented (banking/finance)? It seems like this program is directed at students who aren't currently sure if they want to attend business school (which I definitely do). </li>
</ol>

Any insight would be much appreciated. Thanks

uaprophet · December 30, 2009, 5:43pm

For those applying to the 2+2 program (and to any other who this applies to)
Are you guys taking the GMAT or GRE?

I've read that the GRE is more focused on the verbal and may be "easier" to students who are stronger in that aspect. I want to take the GRE because I feel I do better on verbal parts and plus it costs about half as much.

What are your opinions?

N2L48 · December 30, 2009, 10:11pm

"As for your "passionate" question, do something you love, not for the title or because it sounds cool. The leadership should be able to flow from there.
By the way, I plan on applying then too. Haha, should be fun."

The passionate thing has been irking me a for a while (Mainly because I need to connect it to my field of study). But it's becoming less and less hazy the more I progress. What year are you applying for anyways?

1. During the two years after graduation before entering HBS, must a student take on jobs that last one year each? It seems like the accepted student is required to be on campus during that summer between the two work years for some sort of academic class. Did I misinterpret?

The first summer program I believe will be used as a way for you to meet other 2+2 Students, Faculty, select the company you'll be working for using HBS' resources, and other means of training to prepare you for it.

The second summer program will focus on your experiences at work, and applying leadership training.

As for having taking jobs that last one year, unless I'm mistaken, I think that you'll be working for the same company for 2 years.

2. Is it a problem if our internships are currently business oriented (banking/finance)? It seems like this program is directed at students who aren't currently sure if they want to attend business school (which I definitely do).

First, I've heard before that business-oriented internships and such, shouldn't pose too much of a big problem, as long as your major isn't. It does depend on your current Major. The program is geared towards students who weren't planning to go down the business route. If you intend to attend business school, and you make that very apparent in your application, then they'll probably refer you to regular admission.

@Uaprophet

I asked myself this earlier. The GRE is said to be eaiser for most, but it may actually be a bit harder for international students because of the verbal section. The admissions has stressed that both is fine. With that said, your decision should really be based on your strengths. I'm choosing the GMAT simply because of preference, as I see it as "Business Affiliated".

shametospeak · January 12, 2010, 6:54pm

Well.I see many intelligent students here, which boosts my interest of getting in HBS. But it seems like that will not happen in at least three years．　But wish all you guys good luck!

epiclegend · January 27, 2010, 3:47am

I just looked at the HBS 2+2 Class Profile for the class of 2014 on the HBS website. It shows that 6% of the 115 people admitted had a background in Business Administration. I found this somewhat interesting since the HBS FAQ also says the following:

"The 2+2 Program is primarily targeted towards students who are not already on a business track (i.e. students studying the liberal arts, sciences, engineering, etc.). If your current academic training and internship experiences put you on a solid foundation to advance in a business career, 2+2 may not be the right program for you. We encourage candidates with a strong track record of leadership and business exposure to consider applying as college seniors to our regular MBA Program."

So basically this means 6-7 people were admitted to HBS 2+2 WITH a background in Business Administration. Can someone please give me various reasons why such people may have been accepted? I guess there is an exception to every rule. Thanks in advance.

epiclegend · January 27, 2010, 3:55am

I just looked at the HBS 2+2 Class Profile for the class of 2014 on the HBS website. It shows that 6% of the 115 people admitted had a background in Business Administration. I found this somewhat interesting since the HBS FAQ also says the following:

"The 2+2 Program is primarily targeted towards students who are not already on a business track (i.e. students studying the liberal arts, sciences, engineering, etc.). If your current academic training and internship experiences put you on a solid foundation to advance in a business career, 2+2 may not be the right program for you. We encourage candidates with a strong track record of leadership and business exposure to consider applying as college seniors to our regular MBA Program."

So basically this means 6-7 people were admitted to HBS 2+2 WITH a background in Business Administration. Can someone please give me various reasons why such people may have been accepted? I guess there is an exception to every rule. Thanks in advance.

epiclegend · February 1, 2010, 1:04am

bump........

JIMMY_KILLARNEY · February 3, 2010, 2:33am

Same question here as epiclegend. Perhaps those 6% are all bill gates and young steven jobs who already had some entrepreneurial record?

iseal · February 16, 2010, 12:15pm

if you have a lot of volunteer/teaching abroad experience does that substitute for mediocre internship experience?

ilovebagels · February 17, 2010, 1:06am

I think that depends on whether your volunteering/teaching shows LEADERSHIP in some way, as "leadership" is the HBS mantra. Did you take initiative to do anything extra? Did you mentor someone in need?

Harvard 2+2 Program

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