<p>This is just another attempt at social engineering using tax payer money.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I personally doubt that. Obviously your student and your family consider (or considered) the full-fare price “affordable,” as you have constantly reminded us, sewhappy. If faced with paying that cost, the majority of students at Harvard would have chosen not to attend – and that’s what lower- and middle-income families did in the past, when financial aid was less generous and Harvard was a bastion of the rich.</p>
<p>I am guessing that if Harvard sees evidence of high-income students and families choosing to enroll elsewhere rather than pay full-fare, they will look at the possibility of changing their fee structure. My guess is that hasn’t been the case yet, especially with the ratcheting up of financial aid even for families making up to $180,000 per year.</p>
<p>Okay, sewhappy. I’ll continue with the analogy.</p>
<p>The car dealer does not ask the 18 year old for his parent’s income. He only asks: “where’s the money? Don’t have it? Don’t buy it.” If YOU want your 18 year old to have the car and the dealer is not willing to give it to him or to lower the price just because your kid has less than the full amount, that’s his business. If he chooses to give away a car to somebody else but not your kid, that’s his car, his money. </p>
<p>As for universities lending money to students, they’re not banks, they’re institutions of higher learning!</p>
<p>Re post 1381:</p>
<p>What is the attempt at social engineering? Not clear what you’re referring to, here. </p>
<p>In the case of Harvard, its scholarship program comes from its endowment, much of which was given by donors specifically for the purpose of providing financial aid (My own modest contribution is earmarked for scholarship, though it’s nothing like the Rockefeller $10 millions for study abroad and the zillions other undergraduate scholarship programs).</p>
<p>Now, if the fed were to massively subsidize loans for students to attend HYPSM, that would be social engineering, just like the GI Bill. And a massive tax hike.</p>
<p>Marite,</p>
<p>I’ll parry.</p>
<p>No, the car dealer would not say, Where’s the money? The car dealer, in order to attract the business of crass 18-year-olds who are the primary market for shiny red sports cars, would take note that the young customer exits without purchasing the car. The car dealer would mull this over when the same happens with the next 18-year-old prospective customer, and so on. The smart dealer would then investigate loan programs, lease programs and lowering the price in order to attract broad business from those 18-year-olds intent on driving the shiny red sports car.</p>
<p>And sewhappy, that’s what’s responsible for the current mortgage and housing crisis: Lending more money to individuals than they can afford to pay back.</p>
<p>Sorry to change the subject, but what are people’s experiences with freshman bringing a bicycle to campus. Do they use it? Can they store it? Is it worth it?
Thanks</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Whatever4, I think you have it exactly wrong, actually. The economic mess is not from LENDING money to people unable to pay it back. The economic mess is from people not able to pay money back BORROWING money.</p>
<p>I guess it depends on your perspective.</p>
<p>I agree with Whatever4. The scenario you laid out is what got us into the housing mess. “No down payment? no problem. Sign on the dotted line.”</p>
<p>The people not able to pay back money they borrowed were enabled by banks that were all too willing to lend it out.</p>
<p>But let’s keep to the car dealer. It does not cost nothing for a car to be manufactured and reach the dealer. So there is a floor below which the dealer will not go, otherwise he will lose money. and students, unlike car purchasers, are not repeat customers. More important, EVERY student is already being subsidized by their universities. The cost of one student’s education is higher than the sticker price. So what people are arguing about is over the amount of subsidy.</p>
<p>gtx;</p>
<p>Lots of people have bicycles, and I believe they can store them; but there is a high degree of theft anywhere (S1’s bicycle at a suburban campus was stolen within one month of his getting there, and it was not even an expensive bicycle). I’d suggest buying a cheap bike in Cambridge. However, while the campus is spread out, it is very walkable and there are shuttle buses.</p>
<p>gtx: Get a good lock and make sure that the wheels of the bike are not easily removable. I agree with Marite that it should not be new and shiny.<br>
Lots of students in the Houses have bikes; most (if not all) have bike rooms. It’s probably not as necessary for freshmen in the Yard.</p>
<p>RE: Med school.
It’s not just Harvard. It makes no sense to me that parents should have to file a FAFSA for med school finaid. My kid will be paying back based on her own earnings. My income/assets should not factor into this.</p>
<p>Exactly! Here is the idiotic Harvard Policy:</p>
<p>Family Contribution</p>
<p>In order to be considered for institutional grants and loans, all applicants must supply parent financial information - regardless of age, dependency, marital status, tax status, income level or prior history of financial independence. In extreme cases, e.g. when the whereabouts of a parent is unknown, the Committee requires that the situation be documented by a third party professional: clergyman, attorney, social worker, family physician or other professional with personal knowledge of the family. Please refer to the Petition for Waiver of Non-custodial Parent Financial Information for more details.</p>
<ul>
<li>Note: Students who anticipate that parents will not provide the full expected parent contribution must plan in advance how they will finance an education at HMS without this support. Institutional funds are not available to replace an absent expected parent contribution.</li>
</ul>
<p>Consideration of Parent Contribution</p>
<p>Harvard Medical School requires parent financial resource information from all applicants who are applying for institutional funding. A parental contribution will be calculated using standard institutional need analysis policy. This calculated contribution may be adjusted in the following scenerios: </p>
<p>Middle Income Financial Aid Initiative</p>
<p>In an effort to reduce the cost of a medical school education for its families with greatest financial need, Harvard Medical School no longer expects a parent contribution for students whose total parental incomes (including untaxed income) are $120,000 or less and whose assets are typical for those inocome levels.</p>
<p>Student Age Policy</p>
<p>For students who are below age 29 as of October 1, 2009, the full
calculated parental contribution will be used in determining eligibility
for need-based funds.</p>
<p>For students who are age 29 as of October 1, 2009, the calculated
parent contribution will be reduced by 25%.</p>
<p>For students who are age 30 as of October 1, 2009, the calculated
parent contribution will be reduced by 40%.</p>
<p>For students who are age 31 as of October 1, 2009, the calculated
parent contribution will be reduced by 60%.</p>
<p>For students who are age 32 and above as of October 1, 2009, the
calculated parent contribution will be reduced by 80%.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>DocT:</p>
<p>It might be a good idea for students to work for several years before attending med school. It increases their savings and decreases their parental contributions. ;)</p>
<p>DocT,</p>
<p>Thank you for your post even though it raised my blood pressure by several points. I am speechless, outraged, nauseated. I feel like an idiot cow in the pen being led to slaughter.</p>
<p>What a racket these wonderful liberal educators have been running. Cultivate their brand assiduously, make idiots like us pant after it for our kids, then soak us for literally every dime we have.</p>
<p>The Emperor’s New Clothes.</p>
<p>I. Am. Disgusted.</p>
<p>when we visited Harvard a few years ago prior to my son’s acceptance, there were “no” bike riding signs through out the campus. Apparently, you cannot ride your bike on campus.</p>
<p>As far as the Harvard tuition issue… we all have choices to make. If we don’t like the way something is handled (whether it is fin. aid or rooming assignment or campus safety, etc.)then we have the freedom to go elsewhere. the same applies for colleges and grad schools.</p>
<p>I sympathize with sewhappy and DocT. If things continue as they are, somethings gotta give. If the FA were spread around the entire student population, then tuition would come down, and perhaps be financible through workstudy/loans. Right now that is impossible. And right now the full-pays are picking up the slack for the no-pays. (Yes, they are, because without the full-pays, H et al., could not afford so many no-pays).</p>
<p>Eventually, the full-pays could shrink away - either because of the economic downturn or because they will simply refuse to pay $200,000 for something that the majority gets for less or nothing. And because of the unspoken, unpolitically correct issue (and I do not mean to offend anyone) that is very real: After paying through the nose in property taxes or private school tuition to provide their kids with socio-economically advantaged peers in K-12, will they still want to pay $200K to send their kids to school populated mostly by kids from lower-income backgrounds? (And won’t the lower-income parents be disappointed by this as well?)</p>
<p>“Here’s an idea: If you’re so sure your kid will be paying back, why don’t YOU advance your kid the money? You have a great deal more chance of getting that money back than a medical school.”</p>
<p>Because my kid won’t being paying it back for many years since the only way of paying it back is by going into a well paying specialty that takes years - absolutely no way is somebody going to take on that kind of debt and go into primary care. I need that 300k as most people do for retirement.</p>
<p>Besides why should one of two kids have 300k in debt when both are graduating from Harvard with all the advantages that confers.</p>
<p>Well, Harvard needs the $300k times whatever number of students to fund its operations.
What do you mean one of two kids with $300k of debt? Does the Med School give full finaid to needy students? I was under the impression that there were programs for students intending to practice in under-served areas. could you clarify?</p>