Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates arrested

Parent Cafe
661

<p>

</p>

<p>It is entirely possible for white officers to serve black men and entire black populations. The problem is, too many white officers are not interested in serving blacks, but instead wish to dominate them, to treat them in the “old way”. There are white officers who know how to serve blacks, who arrest blacks and beat them when they deserve it, and who are considerate to blacks until having a reason not to be. This, I am convinced, does not describe Sgt. Crowley.</p>

<p>It is a pity I can’t post videos because they do underscore in a very meaningful way the sorts of people I have in mind. There is a video of a white officer who really is engaged with blacks in his community. The man obviously cares about crime and hitting it before it develops in children. He is a model not just for white cops, but for everyone cop or not. I esteem him greatly. There are other white cops working in black neighborhoods who are very much respected there because they genuinely serve the people. And they make a difference. Unfortunately, it seems most are just “jackbooted thugs” where serving blacks is concerned.</p>

<p>Cops do lie, and very often. And they almost always cover for one another. To show you just how atrocious this is, there was a case in California a few years ago regarding a Samoan family. They were having a wedding shower, playing music into the night, when one of the neighbors called the cops. The cops arrived, and the people turned the music down. Fine. Later on, a white cop returned and demanded everyone shut down and leave. Instantly he begins to attack the women and men. He calls for back up. Other cops arrive. Now he radios that he is under attack and needs help fast. Seventy cop cars show up, and it is mayhem. The helicopter is above, the cops are on the radio reporting that they are being pelted with rocks and bolders, the city commissioner promulgates this story, and all the Samoans are charged with serious crimes, assaulting an officer, attempted murder, etc. The cops showed all sorts of bruises and claimed the Samoans caused them. They collected tons of rocks, huge stones, and claimed the Samoans threw them.</p>

<p>The strange thing was, the Samoans were all in tears during the riot, even the guys. One guy was near to suicide because he said he would rather kill himself than accept what the cops were trying to pin on his family. Seventy cops all corroborated the story of a house full of mad bolder-throwing Samoans eager to kill cops. That is a seven (7) followed by a zero (0). But a neighbor was filming the whole thing, unbeknownst to the cops. When I saw the video, I just sat down and bawled. Couldn’t help it. Those cops were lying, every single one of them. The neighbor’s video showed a sea of cops sometimes forming a gaunlet, dragging Samoans out of the house one after another, and beating them, men and women, without any mercy at all. I hated those cops something fierce for doing that to those people, who had already lost their mother months earlier. They were happy to have something to celebrate, and one racist white cop just ruined it. The neighbor’s video had white cops yelling to get all the Samoans out of the neighborhood. When the video went out, the city was suddenly up a creek without a paddle. They dropped all the charges, but the Samoans were now bitter. They sued and won $24 million. And what happened to the cops? Nothing. That’s America, a most cursed land. It is just a matter of time before the rest of you figure this out.</p>

662

<br>

<br>

<p>I take it you have perfect vision. I’m far from 60 but I have reading glasses and distance glasses. I can’t read anything within about two feet unless it’s in 50 point font.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>Please point to the spot in the police report where he provided his badge number.</p>

663

<br>

<br>

<p>He says that he provided his name and badge number? I didn’t see that in the report. Perhaps you could quote where he provided that information.</p>

664

<br>

<br>

<p>The report said that he stated his name twice. The report said nothing about his badge number from my recollection. Someone earlier on this thread said that police officers are required to provide their badge numbers upon request.</p>

665

<p>

Dr. Gates, himself, says that the first thing the officer asked was that he step outside and that he (Dr. Gates) acted on instinct and said no. Don’t you think that’s where the problem started?</p>

666

<p>

He doesn’t address what information he gave, just saying that he answered and Profesor Gates talked over him. Point being, if we actually hear the tapes (or read the transcript) and the information is given, what then?</p>

667

<p>

</p>

<p>Simplistic, unsophisticated. I said cops are wicked, not dumb. The black cop knows he has to keep his job, and that he has to endure his fellow officers, probably almost all of whom are white. Were he to tell the truth, the white officers would make his life a working hell, a hell of the sort that he could not prove. He likely knows this, and would rather simply maintain solidarity with the officers. It is a wise move because Gates gains very little by having the black officer’s support. And Gates loses little by having the black officer side with the white guy. But if the black guy sides with Gates, the only thing that happens is that black guy loses everything.</p>

668

<p>

</p>

<p>Absolutely.</p>

669

<p>

What if it turns out that your’re factually incorrect? If you hear on the tape that Officer Crowley was professional as an initial matter and Professor Gates’ self-described instinct is the lynchpin in turning this ugly? Then what? If a police officer comes to protect a home and the instinct kicks in and initializes a confrontation, how can police ever come to the home of a black person to protect him or his property? We know that most of life is a little bit of this and a little bit of that, but are you prepared to consider the possibility that all that has come before makes it very difficult for black men to receive appropriate policing, even with an exemplary (albeit human) officer, unless the black man whose property is at issue cooperates?</p>

670

<p>Yes, zoosermom (re #584), I think you’re right about that. Perhaps if Gates had received a little respect once his I.D. was produced the situation would have been defused. Really, don’t we all agree that this was a case of one colossal male ego being pitted against another??</p>

671

<p>

Oh I sure do. But I’m the forum sexist, so take it with a grain of salt.</p>

<p>I took an informal poll of the ladies and gentlemen on my bus and it was noteworthy (to me) that the women almost all said that if the police came to their door unexpectedly they’d automatically think they were being notified of a loved one’s death. The men didn’t have the same expectation.</p>

672

<p>Professor Gates was incredibly insightful in stating that instinct kicked in when he said no. That sounds so absolutely true to me. If he had held on long enough to find out that the officer was looking out for his property and wanted to secure the location when finding out, or if Officer Crowley had communicated that more effectively, no problem.</p>

673

<br>

<br>

<p>It depends on the information. What is your purpose in speculating?</p>

674

<p>Why don’t we just wait until the facts come when the tapes are produced. </p>

<p>From what I have read, I don’t think the police officer had a right to arrest Gates. There are big differences between the police officer’s case and the professor’s case. I tend to side with the police officer’s case because it makes more sense and he must know that the information will get out to the public if he does lie in the police report and he would lose his job. I think Gates made some of his story up to distract attention from his temper tantrum. </p>

<p>I don’t think we can say this is a case based on race (at least the police officer kept race out of it). The police officer as stated before is the least likely candidate for race profiling. Gates on the other hand has a history for creating a scene (believe someone said Duke in the 90s).</p>

675

<p>

I am asking if people who seem set in their views are open to changing them if facts don’t bear them out.</p>

676

<br>

<br>

<p>How do you know what their views are? At the moment, the record indicates that name (G, C) and ID (G) were requested and that the name (C) was provided verbally. Did Gates want to see an ID? I don’t know. He states that he wanted to see C’s badge number and I didn’t see anything in the record that indicates that this was provided. Crowley has given several interviews already - has he answered the question on providing the badge number?</p>

<p>My personal view is that the police do lie and intimidate. That there can be a racial element to this. Even a reverse racial element. See the Duke Lacrosse case as an example.</p>

677

<p>

Drosselmeier, to whom I believe I directed the initial inquiry has been quite generous and forthcoming with his views and I was hoping that he would continue the discussion. That’s all. No ulterior motive. Conversation.</p>

678

<p>

</p>

<p>Well, you see we are not talking professionalism as in robots uttering mere words without meaning. I am sure the cop was very professional, too professional, in approaching Gates. The problem is, Gates is in his home being commanded, professionally, by a cop. It ought not have happened. I don’t know how to get this over to you except perhaps to try this.</p>

<p>I am a dad. This means I have the firepower in this home. If I really want my kids to do something I can be very “professional” and command them to do it. And they would do it. But it would just create a breach between them and me that is entirely unnecessary. As those kids age, however, and sense themselves my equal, and if I then should try that mess with them, they are going to fight back by some means, and all my years of “professionalism” will come back to haunt me. If I want my little son to wait until after dinner to eat a piece of candy, I ought not say “Boy! STEP AWAY FROM THE CANDY!” That will signal hostility to the boy. The most effective way is to say this “I am concerned that you will not be hungry enough to eat dinner. And I enjoy it when you eat your vegetables and good things. Would you mind waiting until after dinner to eat the candy?” The boy senses that I am really on his team, and that I care. Had the officer done this with Gates, there is no way that Gates would have bristled against him. I am convinced that should I hear the tape, I would not hear this in Crowley. I would hear something more like a command, and that is what caused the problem.</p>

<p>If upon hearing the tape I heard Crowley being considerate, then I would be first to admit that I was wrong on this aspect of the Gates affair. I still do not think the man should have been arrested, but I would be surprised to find him acting hostile without cause.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>That instinct will not kick in should the officers treat blacks as fellow citizens. A bit ago I had a bat in the house here. Scared me half to death. So, I send everyone outside and begin searching all over the house to locate the creature. I’m shaking in my shoes and my wife wants to know if I think the thing has rabies. I tell her that it is possible. She calls animal control, which, oddly, is affiliated with the police department here. She wants to know about rabies and what we should do once we catch the bat. Its like 3AM, and I am sneaking around to get this thing. Then a policeman shows up. He tells my wife he saw her call and stopped by to see if everything was okay. He was a white guy. My wife tells him that I am in the basement, working my way up to see if I can find it. He asks if he can come in to help, FINE!!! YEAH!! HAVE AT IT OFFICER! The cop comes down, tells me I’d have more luck turning off all lights. So I do it. So nice to have him there for some reason. Using flash lights, we eventually we come across the bat. The little thing was sitting right on a shelf. I had been walking right past it! I put a bucket over it, and the cop took it. I was grateful, and told the cop so. Highly atypical of my experience with cops. But had that cop came in with a typically coppish attitude, I would have just told him “I’m fine, cya”. This guy wasn’t trying to push anyone around. He just wanted to see if we were doing okay. Had Crowley done likewise, we would not be having this discussion. I do not think he did, and that is why we are here.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>A know that all that has come before has serious and lasting influence on what will come afterward. But the marvelous thing is that, contrary to popular belief, blacks really are human beings. We long for acceptance and honor and kindness and respect just like everyone else. We are thinking agents, just like everyone else, as hard as that may be for many to believe. This means that with understanding, we can put aside the past. We can certainly do it.</p>

679

<p>Also Gates home is owned by Harvard, or so it has been reported (would also explain why a Harvard custodian came to secure it), thus it was not his home. I agree with Zooser the screaming occurred outside. According to Officer Crowley the reported b & e had 2 people, so they did not allow him in without securing the property.</p>

680

<p>

</p>

<p>Simplistic and unsophisticated, eh? In other words: common sense?? Why do you have to argue against every single detail, many of which are accepted as accurate by the majority of posters here? Your making Gates out to be a sinless soul and Crowley: an earthly form of the Devil.</p>

<p>If the police officer believed racism was an issue here, and worried about abuse from his coworkers if he reported that racism, he could have just been silent about the whole ordeal. The fact that he “fully supported the police officer 100%” disproves any of your ridiculous theories, and I am sure everyone here would agree…</p>

<p>First you don’t trust the majority of policeman, second, you don’t trust white society (to side with Gates), third, you don’t trust your own race (e.g the integrity of the black policeman)</p>

<p>So I just have one question, who do you trust?</p>