Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates arrested

Drosselmeier · July 28, 2009, 9:02pm

Well fine, Xiggi, but what you apparently can’t seem to get through your head is that what you think about Gates’s behavior is simply irrelevant and indeed generally unimportant. Gates did nothing wrong. He only used his Constitutional right, which right you would protect first and foremost, were you truly a philosophical American.

I am sure you have this steadfast belief, haha, but it is an intellectually vacuous place for you to be regarding an incident wherein a cop actually arrests someone for using his American right to free speech. I think you are experiencing what very many people are experiencing. Gates’s big problem here is that he happens to be a black man who made the mistake of pointing out that he was being treated differently because he is black. It is a thing few people wish to hear, and so when they hear it, the intense desire they experience is to somehow, ANY how, nail the black guy, his rights be damned. We live in a country that is a pure sham.

LOL. Were I Kluge, I would apologize outright, simply to allow you to catch your breath, thereby saving your life. I am sure Kluge wishes you no harm. Help this poor guy out, Kluge. It seems he takes this forum, and himself, too seriously.

Billy_Pilgram · July 28, 2009, 9:11pm

To see a little straw in another’s eye, and not to notice a log in his own

Drosselmeier · July 28, 2009, 9:19pm

^^ GASP I demand an immediate retraction and apology! You don’t know that I have logs in my eyes!

(Dear me - that just makes me laugh)

Drosselmeier · July 28, 2009, 9:40pm

You see, you are talking here of racism’s “very real impact” as if you know what you’re talking about. But it could be, and likely is, that you haven’t even half a clue about what you are saying. If this is true, then should someone come along to tell you that there is a racism that is as ubiquitous as I have said here, and that is so entrenched in the nation’s psyche that even those practicing it are often unaware of it, you’d be too mentally self-crippled to evaluate it.

One might question why this sort of racism is so important, if it is so difficult to detect. It is important because it is dangerous. It tends to help deny rights, and it even kills lives.

*A new study by researchers at Massachusetts General Hospital and other institutions affiliated with Harvard University provides empirical evidence for the first time that when it comes to heart disease, bias is the central problem – bias so deeply internalized that people are sincerely unaware that they hold it.

Physicians who were more racially biased were less likely to prescribe aggressive heart-attack treatment for black patients than for whites. The study was recently published in the Journal of General Internal Medicine.*
[Shankar</a> Vedantam - The Color of Health Care: Diagnosing Bias in Doctors - washingtonpost.com](<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/12/AR2007081201048.html]Shankar”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/12/AR2007081201048.html)

Of course this racism is not just limited to medicine. It extends also to our basic freedoms and Constitutional rights, as we are seeing with this Gates case. And it is not the only sort of racism at play. When people like Gates actually come out and point to racism against them, it causes large numbers of people to engage in true and open racism. It does not cause this racism, mind you, it exposes it.

LakeWashington · July 28, 2009, 9:41pm

If you’ve read Clarence Page’s opinion piece published in some newspapers today, I’d like to know what you think. I think I agree with him that this was a “mine is bigger than yours” contest that inadvertently took on enormous ideological proportions.

purpleflurp · July 28, 2009, 9:43pm

“Gatess big problem here is that he happens to be a black man who made the mistake of pointing out that he was being treated differently because he is black.”

No, that was not the mistake he made. He made the mistake of asserting that when it WASN’T true. And in maligning a police officer in a situation in which the officer had the ability to do something about it, which he did.

Dbate · July 28, 2009, 9:49pm

Unfortunately the thing he did was against the law. Regardless of Gates actions he was not in the wrong, the officer was. Would you like cops to to break the law just to put someone in their “proverbial” place? I certainly wouldn’t and it is unfortunate that some would like to justify the unlawful actions of one who is supposed to be a steward of the law.

Drosselmeier · July 28, 2009, 9:51pm

Yes. I think that is exactly what took place. But I do not think it would have taken place had Gates been white. I think the cop would have approached Gates differently, with the desire to help and not convict. I think Gates bristled at the cop because the cop started the episode in the traditional cop versus criminal manner “Come out outside with your hands clear!” or some other such nonsense. It was the tone of the cop that caused Gates to think “This guy may harm me”, and so, by instinct Gates told him “no.” That set up the battle of the wills. The cop would not have a black guy telling him no, not like this. So he demanded ID, and when he received it, should have, but could not, pull himself away without compelling Gates’s deference. Gates sensed this, and began pushing back by demanding the cop’s name and badge. And physics took over.

I have always maintained that this is what took place. The problem is, the cop is paid not to have this sort of nonsense take place, infringing upon a man’s rights in the process.

Dbate · July 28, 2009, 9:53pm

I think this is what happened as well, and it explains why some seem to be focused on berating Gates. Some probably feel Gates was acting “uppity” and the cop put him in his place. The fact that they don’t acknowledge racism in that is rather ignorant.

purpleflurp · July 28, 2009, 9:55pm

I don’t know whether the cop was within the law to arrest Gates because I don’t know enough about the behavior he was exhibiting. I do know, though, that many here are willing to give Gates a pass for his inexcusable accusations of racism, while holding the “lowly” cop to the highest of professional standards. In fact, much more should have been expected of Gates. If he had behaved reasonably, he would not have put himself at risk for arrest.

Drosselmeier · July 28, 2009, 9:56pm

More than half of them harbor the same sort of racism. The last thing they will do is come out and admit it. They reveal it nevertheless. These are folks who call themselves American, but would as soon trade away their rights than see a black man use those rights at the expense of a white man’s ego.

Drosselmeier · July 28, 2009, 10:05pm

For themselves? Of course not! For a black man decrying racism? Yeeeessssss!!!

Northstarmom · July 28, 2009, 11:17pm

Time for a music break with this song from “Avenue Q”, a song that is IMO funny and true, and S and I have used it to help start discussions in workshops we’ve done on racism.

"Everyone’s a little bit racist
Sometimes.
Doesn’t mean we go
Around committing hate crimes.
Look around and you will find
No one’s really color blind.
Maybe it’s a fact
We all should face
Everyone makes judgments
Based on race.

Princeton:
Now not big judgments, like who to hire
or who to buy a newspaper from -

Kate Monster:
No!

Princeton:
No, just little judgments like thinking that Mexican
busboys should learn to speak …English…

If we all could just admit
That we are racist a little bit,
Even though we all know
That it’s wrong,
Maybe it would help us
Get along."

amciw · July 28, 2009, 11:25pm

It seems some contributors are, whether intentionally or unintentionally, implying that only whites can be racists.

Dbate · July 28, 2009, 11:31pm

All people are kind of racist, but whites are the ones who historically codified their racism to oppress others in America. So whites get called on it more. For example a black guy could hate seeing black women with white men, but black men never went around lynching white guys for it, so people complain about black racism (and other ethnic group’s racism) alot less than white racism.

poetsheart · July 28, 2009, 11:59pm

I agree that all people have the potential to harbor racial attitudes that quite honestly stink. That’s why we should all regularly perform personal gut checks, and confront ourselves when we realize that we may be making unfair assumptions about people based on their race. It always pains me when I realize that I’ve been guilty of this kind of thing. I really and truly want to be the type of person who embraces every person every time, for the individual he or she really is. I know what it feels like to be seen as “the other”. It’s no more acceptable for me to do it to others than it is for others to do it to me.

Northstarmom · July 29, 2009, 12:05am

The NY Times ethicist weights in:

"Nor is he ethically obligated to sue. Doing so is supererogatory, above and beyond the call of duty. Only he can decide if he has the stomach for a struggle and the resources — financial, psychological — to proceed.

And if he does, there is no guarantee that he would initiate real social change. David Feige, the former trial chief of the Bronx Defenders, public defenders in, well, yes, the Bronx, told me: “There is a fairly equivocal record in forcing reforms through individual lawsuits. Class-action suits have been more effective — those brought to improve prison conditions, for example. So what we really need is more broad, social-justice class-action suits.”

These arguments notwithstanding, Gates should sue. Social change proceeds through the combination of many forces — legislation, litigation and public discourse among them. For Gates to contribute to this effort would be laudable. (And given the high — and disheartening — number of African-American men who, since Gates arrest, have described their own similar encounters with the police, the class-action suit Feige calls for might be sadly possible.)

The president has softened his initial response to this affair, withdrawing his remark at the press conference that “the Cambridge police acted stupidly.” He now suggests that both Gates and Crowley “overreacted.” Quite likely. But if Gates overreacted, he did so only as an individual, an outburst that might be obnoxious but is not criminal. There is no law against Contempt of Cop. If Crowley overreacted, he erred as a professional, perhaps abusing his office in a manner that is particularly fraught, given the history of African-Americans and the police. That’s what should be examined in court.

Both Crowley and Gates have accepted Obama’s invitation. Courteous conversation is a fine thing; beer is a fine thing. But not even White House brew can resolve this conflict the way a trial can. Gates and Crowley should drink heartily, speak civilly and eventually reconvene in a courtroom…>"
[Should</a> Henry Louis Gates Sip or Sue? - The Moral of the Story Blog - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://ethicist.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/27/why-henry-louis-gates-should-sue/]Should”>Should Henry Louis Gates Sip or Sue? - The New York Times)

poetsheart · July 29, 2009, 12:37am

I don’t think any suit should target the Cambridge Police Dept. or Sgt. Crowley based on the concept of a racially motivated violation of Professor Gate’s civil rights. However, I do think this case should be used to heighten the awareness of Police Departments all over the country of the importance of the Constitutional Right of Citizens to speak their own minds in their own homes, and improve their understanding of every citizen’s right to freedom from unlawful arrest. Unfortunately, the hue and cry engendered by the underlying racial tensions in this case, seem to have blinded virtually all and sundry to what is truly at stake here. Again, it’s a real shame that often even the most educated of Americans don’t seem to see this.

Drosselmeier · July 29, 2009, 1:49am

Maybe everyone is a little bit racist. But I do not think everyone can be equally racist. What many now often call racism in blacks is nothing more than blacks understandably recoiling from what whites have done to them and their ancestors.

I agree with this. Gates does not have enough objective evidence to prove abject racism, though he knows that racism was influencing the circumstances (the doctored police report proves this). What Gates knows and can prove is that simply for speaking his mind the cop arrested him.

Gates likely will not sue in order to spare Obama further grief. But I think he should certainly sue because for too long cops have been locking people up and even beating them simply for “mouthing off”, and Americans have allowed this, despite that it is against American law. I think Gates should sue the city of Cambridge for every possible thing he can, until the city feels it. He should also assault the fact that Crowley falsified his report, so that more cops will stop lying as they too often do. Then, if he wins, he might donate the money back to the city, or to some charity, to teach everyone not to mess with his rights again.

purpleflurp · July 29, 2009, 2:12am

Drosselmeier posted:
“What many now often call racism in blacks is nothing more than blacks understandably recoiling from what whites have done to them and their ancestors.”

That’s what racism is–the undeserved blanket hatred of certain people because of the actions of some in a group. How long do you wish the whites as a group to be saddled with the sins of their fathers? I find this appalling. I find it as appalling as I find my 85-year-old mother-in-law’s racist attitudes toward all Asians because her brother was killed by the Japanese in WWII.

Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates arrested

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