I’m asking a question for one of my friends because they do not have a CC account.
He was admitted to Harvard SCEA, but recently he was also named one of the 45 finalists for the Duke AB scholarship. He plans on studying biology in college, but he isn’t entirely sure if that is what he wants. While he hasn’t received the Duke AB yet, he is wondering what to do if he got it.
The question boils down to Harvard or Duke AB.
Okay, I’m a Dukie, but I write this answer as dispassionately as possible. Duke provides a few – EXCEPTIONALLY COMPETITIVE – merit scholarships (the Ivies have none). These are unbelievable opportunities:
Clearly, Harvard is an outstanding university: however, I honesty suggest that the totality of advantages associated with an A B Duke is VERY difficult to equal, at any institution.
It might boil down to what financial resources your friend’s family has and is willing to commit to his undergraduate education. Harvard has excellent need-based financial aid, so it can be very affordable for some middle or lower-income families. The AB Duke is a merit scholarship, given without regard to the student’s financial circumstances, making Duke more affordable to affluent families.
If finances are not a concern, your friend should pick whichever university he prefers. Most people would pick Harvard over Duke, but the AB Duke scholarship comes with some perks. How much does your friend value those perks? Does he want to be a special person at Duke, or does he want to be part of the rather special student body at Harvard?
^ ^ ^
I’m not convinced that, in aggregate, undergraduates at Harvard are part of a more “special student body” (to use Fifty’s phrase) than are their peers at several other most-selective National Research Universities and LACs (possibly, with the exception of the blatant arrogance some exhibit). Life is not entirely defined by GPAs, SAT results, and the like . . . and fun should be a MAJOR component of the undergraduate experience.
I’m a fan of Ivy League schools, but I have to say that it would be rational–very much rational–to turn down Harvard, Yale, or any other school in favor of one of these top Duke scholarships. (Indeed, a kid in my daughter’s class turned down Yale for one of them.) They are very competitive–and Duke is a top school even without them.
The challenge for him is finances vs friends in a way. He attended a research program the past year and the vast majority of his friends from the program will be attending Harvard. However, he is in a relatively high income bracket and has a sibling at another Ivy, Dartmouth, so he doesn’t want to put a financial burden on his parents and himself. He’s gotten a few other scholarships, but the cost of attending Harvard against Duke would still be substantial if he were to get the AB.
Are there other opinions about this?
He can and will make new friends. Often times, friends you make during HS will grow apart even if you attend the same college. Like a bf/gf, that should not factor in to the decision. Unless his family is wealthy, however, money is a big deal.
@PurpleTitan - I agree, you shouldn’t allow friends to sway his decision, particularly those that he met at a research camp last summer. Both Duke and Harvard are excellent schools that will provide a vast number of opportunities.
@currymaster420 - Which research camp was this?
@Zinhead He attended the Research Science Institute.
@TopTier What would you say about your Duke experience? and is there a significant difference in experience if you were a scholarship recipient vs a regular student?
Did Harvard offer any need-based aid?
If so and the net cost difference is small, then visit both schools. Choose the one that makes the best impression. Otherwise (if Duke is far cheaper), go to Duke.
Duke has done very well with Churchill Scholarships:
• Duke 24
• Harvard 40
http://www.winstonchurchillfoundation.org/scholars.php
Rhodes Scholarships are another story:
• Duke 39, as of 2012
• Harvard 323, as of 2012
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/772208-ranking-college-by-rhodes-scholarship.html
Here are the Nobel Prize winners, including those who attended either undergraduate college or graduate school:
• Duke 2
• Harvard 69
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_university_affiliation
I stand by my assertion that Harvard has a rather special student body. I do not deny the “arrogance some exhibit.”
@currymaster (re post #10): I attended Duke with 100 percent of my costs borne by the taxpayers and, while I never felt even remotely out of place, or excluded, or marginalized (nor did I ever lack for incredible opportunities – of all types – on campus), I sometimes knew that I could not afford non-Duke/non-academic things that some – but FAR from all – of my peers could (the only example I can think of would be expensive Spring Breaks). Obviously this was NOT a Duke issue and I never felt it adversely affected me, even slightly. Without any doubt my overall Duke experiences were as wonderful as they have proven to be amazingly beneficial life-catalysts.
quit bumping. if you friend wants a dialogue it only takes a sec to make an account.
If he wants to go to medical school, and the difference in cost is substantial, applying that difference to medical school costs may give more future options.
@Fifty - I really question the relevance of some of these accolades. It is not like many of the Nobel prize winners will be on staff to teach undergrad classes to current students, and Harvard’s lead in Rhodes scholars was established over a 110 year period while Duke and other similar institutions have been strongly pushing academics for a much shorter time period.
What should be a concern to today’s students is what they get out of a university education to benefit them tomorrow, and not be bogged down in a largely meaningless past.
True. Harvard got a head start on everybody else. It is no coincidence that the oldest university in the United States is also the one with the largest endowment and several other advantages.
The first Harvard student to win a Rhodes did so in 1904. The first from Duke was in 1917. If we include only the twenty-first century, Duke has 13 Rhodes and Harvard has 54.
http://www.rhodesscholar.org/winners/winning-institutions/
The Nobel Prize numbers I quoted include only those who attended Duke or Harvard as students. You are correct in saying that most of them will not be on staff as faculty at either Duke or Harvard. I quoted the numbers only to demonstrate that past members of the student bodies have gone on to great things.
Duke has risen remarkably over the past fifty years from a regional institution to an important national institution. Nowadays it is an excellent university that attracts an excellent student body.
Now that we know that the OP’s friend comes from an affluent family, chances are that an AB Duke Scholarship would make Duke significantly less expensive than Harvard. I wish him the best of luck with the interview weekend.
I know some AB Duke recipients. They are a wonderful bunch. Given the program’s competitive nature, almost all of the recipients who chose Duke also had offers from HYPS.