We also need to remember that, at least in the HW cases, most of the women were pretty young and many may not have had Brad Pitt or famous parents to back them up. They were being told they are beautiful by hair and make up people, by their agents, by their parents and acting teachers and photographers. They wanted and needed HW to find them beautiful too, but they didn’t know how to deal with him when he became aggressive.
I was at a job interview with a judge, a black woman judge back in the early '80s when there were few women judges and even fewer black women judges, who looked at me and asked “How old are you.” Well, I knew she couldn’t consider this information, that she shouldn’t be asking it, and I thought about it but really didn’t know how to handle the question. I thought aobut saying she couldn’t ask that but instead answered ‘23.’ Her response? “You sure don’t look it.” I really don’t think she took it into consideration or held it against me that I looked 16, but she was just surprised that I’d had several jobs and hardly looked old enough to drive and asked me about it.
It seems HW was not well liked, but many of the abusers and harassers are not unpleasant people. They are often intelligent, funny, movers and shakers in their fields (music, movies, politics, business) and people want to be around them. Anita Hill didn’t like the crude jokes or other personal messages Clarence Thomas was sending, but I’m sure the work was fascinating, some of the brightest legal minds were arguing cases in that court, the opportunities was really top notch. At that time, women lawyers were just trying to be accepted so we kept quiet when there were crude jokes, clients being taken to gentlemen’s clubs. We couldn’t even join the University club at that time as it was all male, never mind play golf at the best clubs. We had to choose our battles.
I suppose so. However, sometimes there are repercussions that are hard to control. Something serious, no problem, I would report it. I think I would probably report someone in two situations. Attempted rape and a threat to my job. Otherwise, I believe I would deal with the issue myself.
Women in my industry who report people for this or that (non major issues) are looked upon rather harshly. And people are intimidated to work with them, because they fear being reported for any little thing. I feel that I can deal with the situation right then, and would much rather take care of it myself than report them, and two weeks later they get a call from their manager for something they don’t even remember. I do feel that if I can’t deal with it myself, I’m declaring that I’m a victim. And I’m not. I realize it’s different for people in other industries, but for my job, I’m the boss. I need to be able to deal with things myself.
I found Tarantino’s interview interesting. Mira Sorvino had been his girlfriend back in the nineties, and he heard of another incident that made him confront Weinstein but it did little. Of course he now wishes he had done more but he also talked about Hollywood having a Jim Crow -like attitude about women and how that needs to change.
Maybe this is unfair, but I’ve always found Tarantino rather creepy. I don’t see him as being particularly caring about how anyone would treat women. He has horribly violent movies…maybe I’m just generalizing about him and am completely wrong.
But that’s the point. Would the CEO have said that about a man in a meeting with other colleagues? Of course not. It came right after the CEO’s saying that his next meeting was with so-and-so, our “advisers.” The consultant who was also in the meeting said, “I thought we were your advisers!” And the CEO said, “You are. You’re our [technical term] advisers, and Very Happy is our honey.”
It was offensive, it diminished me in front of colleagues, and I called him on it, both then and later.
Of course the problem with ignoring the" little things" is that the offender isn’t put on notice and often the behavior escalates because boundaries have not been set. Not to mention how those “little things” consciously or sub consciously undermine a woman’s credibility, especially when they are done publicly in meetings. I am certain women like Sheryl Sandberg , Marillyn Hewson and Mary Barra cultivate a very serious and authoritative presence in the workplace. They learned early on that it matters and their success is a testament to the fact that it works. And yes “cultivate” is the right word – attention to those “small things” that have an insidious power to undermine you.
I am comfortable privately confronting just about anyone the first time around – however it’s going to get complicated when that someone is a person with a lot of power or to whom you report. You are going to have to be able to afford to lose the job and/or suffer lack of advancement in the organization. That’s just been the reality for women for a very long time.
And just as an aside I have witnessed my fair share of women in the corporate world bending over backwards to try and be “one of the guys.” But when push comes to shove they most often find out that no matter how “right” they are in any particular situation, a man will always back up another man first. That’s just the way men are – it’s written into their DNA. And it has worked quite well for them. Women on the other hand seem more inclined to undermine each other.
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
I deleted several posts about the appropriateness of “honey” simply because the user who originally asked the question lives under a bridge and is now no longer active. Therefore, the responses made no sense out of context.
On the lighter side, a brief incident from grad school that I recall.
I’m a second or third year student, and just had a paper accepted for the national convention. I’m on the elevator when a full professor enters. (He’s tall and I’m not). He pats me on the head and says, “Nice job.”
Me, “I’m not a dog.”
I still don’t know if I actually spoke those words, or just thought them. That’s why the incident stays with me.
I think your prof was sincere. Better a pat on your head than a pat on your behind. I think people need to figure out what is annoying and what is real harassment. I don’t like being called “hun” by clerks male or female, but that isn’t harassment. I don’t really like being hugged and touched by non-family members, but I have a whole lot of huggy friends and I’ve had a few huggy bosses that hug everybody male or female and I get that. As is often said, what one perceives as harassment others perceive as a perhaps awkward but well intentioned compliment. If you are a sensitive person, acknowledge it but don’t look cross eyed at people that simply aren’t that sensitive and accept a compliment however it is delivered…as long as it’s not a pat on the behind! The end game if everything is harassment is a really bleak life IMO where the sexes are separated all the time, and the olders and youngers are separated, the bosses and the serfs and so on to keep them from coming in contact with anyone but “like kind.” This isn’t aimed at you bookworm…but more a general thought from another thread and comments on this thread. And for heavens sake don’t sleep your way to the top…as the old saying goes…although that’s as old as the hills and we all know someone who has or at least several rungs up the ladder I would guess. I have to stop and wonder just how many people coming out of the woodwork did what they did consensually vs. what is being said now only because I do believe some of them probablly have deflected the horrid man and those will be the ones that totally tank any potential prosecution of HW.
There is of course a huge difference between consensual activity vs. the various degrees of harassment, unwelcome / awkward verbal advances, vs flashing / inappropriate touching, vs. rape. Based on the sheer volume of reports, I’d wager HW did all of the above. He should be prosecuted for whatever he deserves. Sounds like the LA Atty General will be prosecuting him
So true bookworm. They will however, have to find solid cases in order to prosecute him unfortunately. I doubt many women did anything with him happily but consensually because they wanted something from him that he had to give?..that is a whole different can of worms and if you don’t think that happened with some women…that happens all the time and has for all time and that is called tit for tat or if the words offend you, this for that. What bugs me is even if decades ago the women of hollywood would have banned together and shunned him, there would have still been an outlier who figured they had nothing to lose and everything to gain because he is a predator and would find what he was looking for.
@momofthreeboys –
" I doubt many women did anything with him happily but consensually because they wanted something from him that he had to give?" I think many of them “did anything” with him not because they wanted something, but because they feared for their very jobs… Mira Sorvino is an example of how he could destroy a career after a “no.”
“if decades ago the women of hollywood would have banned together and shunned him” Some women did: Angelina Jolie, for example, who refused to work with him after The Good Shepherd and cautioned other women against HW. But “banding together” is hard considering how much power these predators wield… and many women don’t believe one another when they talk about harassment. We’ve seen that over and over, in public and on this site…
