Harvey Weinstein

“let’s hope you are not judged equally harshly in your decline.”

My criticism is more toward those who help him manage if he is impaired and senile if you reread my post which said “If Bush is too senile to understand that, his family/handlers need to be responsible enough to make sure no women is subjected to it.”

I call that being practical given the circumstances. The women spoke up. Now his family/assistants know. Hopefully it will be addressed because, honestly, that would be the kindest thing for all.

I stepped out of this thread a while ago because of the sniping, but the ‘half dead’ comment brings me back. I find that very offensive. As a former nursing aide in a nursing home and hospice volunteer and employee, I think Mr Bush is 100% alive.
I was subjected to unwanted touching and exposure while an aide and I did not find it appropriate. We tried to have male aides do all bathing for male patients to protect the women.

The Bushes should absolutely protect women from his inappropriate touching.

Also in @doschicos camp. Bush has Parkinsons not dementia. While his intent was likely not to intimidate, harass, use his power for his pleasure etc. his actions were still inappropriate. The fact that he uttered the words “cop a feel” mean that his butt grab was not a result of loss of motor control. Of course, this behavior is no where near the level of Harevy, Toback, Halperin, but it still is not right.
He did apologize and own it, so he is certainly more forgivable than the others, so I feel no ill will towards him, but to shame the woman who were made uncomfortable by his actions is not cool.

dementia is a key symptom of Parkinson’s. no one claimed his actions were “appropriate”. as busyparent pointed out, such actions can and do occur in impaired populations, and occurred to her. It is one thing to handle discreetly for the impaired, as in the busyparent situation-by substituting caregivers, etc. It is another to go public with an press announcement of the activity designed to shame him and the family. The victims could have pulled the family aside privately and spoken to them, could they not? Or written a letter to him/his family/his doctor/the secret service? Were there really no alternatives?

right, back to the original victim shaming aspect. Victims can’t really be victims if they didn’t speak up against the actions when they happened. They must only be speaking out for attention.
Rinse, lather, repeat.

On Slate, Christina Baker Kline writes about her Cop A Feel encounter in 2014. She was asked to be “discreet” afterwards.

You know, if his arm doesn’t work as well as in the past he could just keep it by his side.

edited to add:

Women are conditioned to “not make a scene.” I am coming to realize that this phrase/thought is most often deployed to prevent us from sticking up for ourselves.

Totally disagree in this case… The man is 93 years old and in a wheelchair for crying out loud… he’s not some 40 year old dude who knows better. Lecturing a 93 year old man on what’s socially acceptable in 2017 is beyond ridiculous…

This actress made the situation more awkward by bringing media attention to it. And for what? What does she hope to gain out of all of this? To educate 93 year old men with dementia (?) not to grope women? Give me a freaking break

No, more likely she did it for selfish reasons, to promote herself… to show that she is part of the “in” crowd in Hollywood… to win nods from her fans and supporters that she “gets it”. It’s total phoniness…

I do not doubt they were victims, or that the actions occurred. I do doubt much good can come of speaking up 4 years after the fact, when he has declined even further, or after his death, I suppose.

Most of the Bush kerfuffle could have been defused with a proper apology. Or it could have been avoided, but maybe not so easily if he is very willful as well as grabby.

But when you read the official statements - holy cow! He’s in a wheelchair so his arm is lower if he puts it around someone - making it sound as if the ass grabbing was an accident. We’re supposed to swallow that one?

He tells a joke at these events to make everyone at ease - no, he tells a bad and smarmy joke, and apparently does it a lot, and it makes for uncomfortable group laughter where the woman who is grabbed is then less likely to complain.

The joke - “guess who my favorite magician is - David Cop a Feel”, is just so obviously inappropriate.

People around him make jokes or excuses about it - Barbara Bush, “he’s going to end up in jail”, his security guard, “well, you shouldn’t have stood next to him”.

What it all adds up to is tolerance for the grabby old man and astonishment that anyone would feel differently. They are enabling his bad behavior and I doubt that even he would approve of that, if he was thinking more clearly. When you joke about something that negatively affected someone else, you are really not helping the situation. Why did no one apologize back then? Or even now? ( a proper apology without the layers of BS)

Yes, we all understand that this is part of him getting older and less restrained. No, no one thinks it is equivalent to the years of predatory harassment by Weinstein, et al.

But yes, technically it is sexual assault. A mild form, if you will, but exactly the same thing that put Taylor Swift on the witness stand. (and remember, she didn’t bring that trial, the ass-grabber did).

I can’t believe folks are advocating she shouldn’t have spoken up, are you kidding me??? No one is advocating Bush be charged with a crime , but his behavior is totally inappropriate, I don’t care the reasons.

I’m even more mad at his family/handlers as clearly knew this was an issue and they tried to make light of the situation. They are even more responsible than he is. They could have easily said no pictures or made sure he kept his hands in his lap, but the didn’t. It’s expected that the women think it’s cute that he grabs their ass.

Yes, the demented are difficult to be around. There is no “enabling”, his behavior is likely not able to be controlled by himself or those around him, and that can happen to any of us, given dementia’s progress. The most surprising things can occur with the demented, often totally out of character and unpredictable. Very sad, but not really worth of the public condemnation occurring here.

MODERATOR’S NOTE: There’s too much debating going on in this thread, so I’m closing it (another mod agrees with me).