I don’t buy that all schools are the same in terms of alcohol and drug use. Some schools have a lot more deliberate programming and scaffolding to help kids manage stress, take “healthy” risks, and feel connected to each other in ways that reduce the need, desire, or opportunity.
There was a mom on CC years ago with 3 or 4 kids at different BS. She provided details about her kids’ schools. Some had more of a pot culture vs alcohol. Her child at St Andrews reported no drinking or drugs on campus but LOTS of dip tobacco among the boys. Thacher’s anonymous student surveys report that around 3 percent of students have used drugs or alcohol at school. I have no reason to believe one school’s anonymous survey and not another’s.
@CaliMex Agree. Some schools are going to have more or less healthy actions depending on a number of factors including the school’s stance/support etc. Small schools might have a closer eye on students as well or those with various ways of doing advisory. So many variations.
I also think that schools with a zero-tolerance policy are going to have different outcomes. When my kid was a Freshman, three kids were kicked out for various infractions. One of them seemed pretty minor to me. But it could have harmed others so the kid was gone. Honestly, I don’t know if the school has a zero tolerance policy but I do think the threshold is pretty low.
They also have students on the disciplinary board who decide what happens. My kid said it was fine as long as kids understand what’s a stake. I’m sure all schools make the kids sign the student handbook ( ours does) which spells out very clearly what is not allowed. It was VERY explicit in every way (sex, drugs, cheating etc). That being said, I cannot imagine what it feels like to be the parent of a kid who gets kicked out of school. It must be really rough. We have a close friend whose kid had to leave prior to Senior year. The kid never really recovered from the situation.
The last time I was surprised to learn that there was less sex/drugs/alcohol use than expected, observed, or reported, was: never.
Intuitively, it might seem that smaller, more isolated schools could exert greater control over things. But, I’d say that the more restrictive/confined the environment, the more likely a child is likely to act out if/as/when they’re able, not less.
Happy to agree to disagree, especially as apparently debate is not allowed according to the T&C’s here 
BTW @confusedaboutFA thanks for posting that. As expected, the responses are far more similar from school to school than they are different.
While there is almost certainly some variability from school to school. my intuition says that at a school with a small student body and/or a very harsh policy on infractions, current students may not answer honestly because they fear that they won’t be truly anonymous. I always appreciate Andover’s transparency on this.
Harsh penalties are generally an effective deterrent. They are also a great reason to find loopholes. Not allowed on campus? Spend the weekend at a classmate’s home, preferably one with no parents. 3% on campus? Quite possible. But that’s one heck of a qualifier - on campus. (We have gone around on this before. )
Most of the hair-raising stories I have heard were from graduates, not current students. They no longer fear reprisals!
I agree that school cultures differ. Some are more “wholesome”. And I also think some surveys may feel safer for students to answer honestly.
Fundamentally, if you have a kid who has lots of ways to be busy and who has no interest in this, odds are they won’t engage and will know few who do. That’s really what matters. It’s not the situation my mother imagined- pushers injecting you while you watched the movie in your aisle seat, only to read the credits as an addict!
It is something to discuss with your kids. They should not only understand your expectations, they should be comforted declining and withdrawing from the situation.
@calimex - I just thought of a new motto for Thacher. They can have it for free:
“Thacher: why horse around when you can literally horse around?” ?
Sorry- I am feeling a little frisky today. ???
^^ better than a pun about doing horse!
@gardenstategal you said quite eloquently exactly what my feelings are on the matter. Thank you!
To clarify, the Thacher survey asks kids to estimate the percentage of students using alcohol or drugs on campus, not to divulge whether they themselves indulge. I see no reason why kids would lie. There’s zero risk to them.
@CaliMex Then we are comparing apples to oranges. Asking Thacher kids to estimate the usage of other Thacher kids is obviously and fundamentally different (and not all that insightful) than polling students on whether they themselves actually engaged in the behaviour.
@confusedaboutFA Since around 70% of the respondents to the ESA poll were from PA and PEA, we can’t really infer that other ESA schools would have similar survey results to the 2019 Andover survey. My gut tells me PEA results would be very similar, and perhaps even more concerning in some areas.
While PA is to be applauded for doing these periodic surveys, will the school actually address some of the areas of concern? Past SOTAs had some worrying results as well.
@Mumof3Boyz I would probably infer the opposite. Since the survey was not mandatory, and comes from another school, I think it’s reasonable to assume that the students at schools other than PA and PEA who did not respond are more likely to be the kids who’d answer affirmatively to any of the behavioral questions. In other words, I think the “non PA/PEA kids who did respond” are likely to skew toward ‘better behaved.’
Relatedly, I would also disagree with @CaliMex that there is zero risk. Typically, when asked why they don’t respond to anonymous surveys, by far the biggest answer people respond with is that they don’t believe the surveys are actually anonymous. That may or may not be an accurate perception, but perception is reality…
I have not read all of the posts in this thread. Recently, for several years, a hot topic about Andover revolved around academic pressure & self-harm counseling.
@DroidsLookingFor The participation rate for Thacher student surveys is really high. The low risk I was referring to is the difference between “Have you used alcohol or drugs on campus?” (high risk) vs. “What percentage of Thacher students do you estimate use alcohol or drugs on campus?”(little to no risk) or “How would you rate the peer pressure to use alcohol or drugs?” (low risk)
Just because it is an apple to oranges comparison does NOT mean it isn’t useful. It speaks to the culture of the school, especially since it is common for teens to OVERestimate how much their peers are engaging in risky behaviors. (Think about sexual activity. Most high schoolers assume everyone is doing it in high school … and yet a significant percentage of people lose their virginity after graduation.)
My guess is that if you asked the same question at Andover (“What percentage of students do you think are using drugs and alcohol on campus?”) , you’d probably get a larger number based on the percentage of students who were actually willing to admit to usage on campus.
Hello @DroidsLookingFor - you said "I would probably infer the opposite. Since the survey was not mandatory, and comes from another school, I think it’s reasonable to assume that the students at schools other than PA and PEA who did not respond are more likely to be the kids who’d answer affirmatively to any of the behavioral questions. In other words, I think the “non PA/PEA kids who did respond” are likely to skew toward ‘better behaved.’
The participation rate from Deerfield was about the same as Andover, and Exeter not that far off, so I don’t see why this would infer, for example, that non-responding Deerfield kids are “more likely to…answer affirmatively to any of the behavioural questions”.
NMH had a low response rate. Who knows why, but just because 63% didn’t respond, again, I’m not sure it gives us much in the way of statistical inferences.
Anyway, it’s an interesting topic to discuss and analyze. I would like to see more transparency on this from the other ESA schools and BSs in general. Cheers.
Also, in point of fact, this is part of the decision. Do you know your kid? Is your kid mature enough to live on their own and make generally good decisions? Has you child ever had an experience with self harm, other issues? Does addiction run in your family? How does you child handle stress? I think most involved parents know the answers to these questions. Most kids will make a couple of mistakes along the way. That is pretty different from a kid who has a known issue where BS is not going to help. And some kids are more likely to go along with the crowd than others.
Part of our decision making as a family was what is the emotional cost of pushing too much in high school? For us, it wasn’t about getting into certain schools. It was about what is the experience going to be like and will that help in the long run? IE, Will they leave the school a better person ready for the world? More like what is the best path forward given this particular child ( strength and weaknesses). A lot of info from that Andover survey would make me turn and run. Some others might think it’s the norm.
I would love to see a standardized survey from all BS’s. The Andover and other one posted were different. Frankly, the Andover one asked hard and tough questions really getting to the bottom of what kids are/aren’t doing. That’s great as it gives a clear picture. Kudos to them for being open and honest. I hope they are working on the issues.
Lots of information that I found interesting/distressing when I first read this report back when we were starting our BS research. Much of which is already being covered by comments.
But one thing I will add is the willingness for a school to dig right in, ask the hard questions, publish the hard answers and go from there – well that speaks volumes to me. We are not a family of “brushing it under the rug” types, so this willingness to ask hard questions, even at the risk of not looking good, resonated with me deeply. I’d rather join a community where leaders, faculty and parents have heads that are fiercely out of the sand than join one where things are glossed over, assumed to be “worse elsewhere,” or poor choices are a rare exception.
Also, I am encouraged by the willingness of kids to own up to their own behavior. Kids are answering questions that are, frankly, uncomfortable to ask and answer. Asking hard questions is a tremendous life skill.
The question for me then does become: how much is the behavior caused/encouraged by a particular community or culture? Truth is: I don’t know.
But I do think I’ll know more after my daughter is there for her first year. (And believe me, I’d be keeping an eye on her no matter where she went away at 14!). I would MUCH rather crash and burn in a place that will tell me that is happening than have her slowly slip into something dark and deep with a faculty who thinks none of their students are possibly behaving like “problem kiddos.” As a parent, I fully accept the real possibility that my own kids could be the problem kiddo. So far, they haven’t been. But they are fully capable of it because they are human. We all are. Any school that uses the language or posturing of “they” when speaking about some of these behaviors instead of “us” is likely in at least some level of denial, in my opinion.
Last thought about Andover: one thing I really liked reading their strategic plan from a few years ago (available by googling) is that one of the priorities listed was improving the mental and emotional health of the students. I asked about this during our interview. I learned about a variety of initiatives that showed real commitment, not just random lip service. For example, the mental health and physical health departments were merged into one building – a brand new health center at the center of campus, which removes stigma, and makes health literally the center of campus life. Another example: changing the schedule so classes start later, and having classes not all meet every day to allow for more homework planning flexibility.
Anyway – I proceeded to have a mental and emotional health conversation as part of my interview questions, and I definitely saw different responses from different schools. The school that picked right up on the thread and engaged in that topic in the most meaningful way with concrete examples was Andover.
So yes the survey makes me nervous. But it makes me nervous because I’m about to have 4 teenagers, and holy cow, growing up is hard. We’ll have to see what the Andover community’s impact is on my daughter’s well-being next year.
@Calimex - why are you opining so much on this thread? My understanding is that you have no direct connections to PA. Yet you are going on and on with opinions. Way more than people who actually attend or have children at PA.
For example, you state …
“My guess is that if you asked the same question at Andover (“What percentage of students do you think are using drugs and alcohol on campus?”) , you’d probably get a larger number based on the percentage of students who were actually willing to admit to usage on campus.”
Why should we hear about your opinion on this when you have no connection to PA?
You generally like to paint Thacher as a utopia and often cavalierly throw shade at some schools you don’t have a direct connection with. Thacher seems like a great school. But pause before going out into territory with schools you really don’t know about.
Thacher is no utopia. For the wrong kind of kid, it would be an absolutely miserable place to spend 4 years. It is all about fit, isn’t it?
I chimed in on this thread only because people were reacting to the State of the Academy student surveys saying that the information wasn’t useful because all boarding schools are the same when it comes to drugs, alcohol, etc. They aren’t.
But for most families, that’s not a reason to choose a school or to rule it out.
Didn’t mean to offend or anger you.
Re: Andover starting classes later and not having every class meet every day: but other schools did those things a decade plus ago . . .
I think all schools are focusing on the mental health of their students, because they have to.