I have to hand it to Andover that they’re willing to publish this info! All of these problems likely exist to some degree or other in all schools but any school willing to publish this information, gets my nod of approval. Schools investigating and seeking answers on how to fix issues seem better equipped to address any negative numbers vs. schools that don’t. Sunlight is the best disinfectant as they say.
I have no direct experience With Andover, as kiddo didn’t even apply. Just by reputation, though, I understand it to be quite the pressure cooker. I am heartened to hear they are focusing on mental health.
Fwiw, Cate did an internal survey of the parents and kids last year about stress and satisfaction with various aspects of the school. They do it every few years. The results were stark. The parents’ responses were the same high level of satisfaction as years before, but the students reported a lot more stress and dissatisfaction. I respected how they presented it to the parents at fall family weekend instead of sweeping it under the rug. They didn’t understand what was different, but they committed to finding out and particularly as to the mental health component. They have definitely done some good work on that front. So @Calliemomofgirls, I totally get where you are coming from and think your (and Andover’s) approach is admirable. And important.
Teens are teens no matter where they go to school or how smart or mature they are. Their frontal lobes are works in progress. Their lives are way more stressful than my teenage life was. Sending a kid off to boarding school in the middle of that pubescent turmoil is a leap of faith and profound trust - of the students and adults alike. You have to believe your kid will reach out and that the adults are paying attention.
@CMKDad - the thrust of the OP’s question was regret about attending Andover; you’re right about that. (In my case, two nephews attended - one loved it, one seemed lukewarm - parents were happy) However, the OP’s question also called out the dilemma of making a big school (PA) vs small school decision. To that end, some non-PA parents chimed in, like me, to express an opinion on the pros and cons of making that choice.
Just like their college counterparts, PA and any other elite BS are only good (and maybe great) fits for some, but not all, of their students. For a few, it could even be a very poor choice. Each family needs to objectively look at the school and their kid to see if the school is a good match, academically, socially, etc.
@CaliMex you wrote “I chimed in on this thread only because people were reacting to the State of the Academy student surveys saying that the information wasn’t useful because all boarding schools are the same when it comes to drugs, alcohol, etc. They aren’t.”
That’s a straw man - I don’t recall any comment saying that the information wasn’t useful. To the contrary, it’s incredibly useful, particularly when it’s presented openly and honestly and - as @Calliemomofgirls pointed out - continues to result in tangible efforts by a school to address the issues at hand.
As for whether or not sex/drugs/alcohol use at BS are more similar than different, I’ll continue to go with “more similar” until/unless other schools do the same types of surveys and publish them openly. Interesting to note that Cate did a survey and presented the results to parents (bravo). Is that publicly available?
I do applaud Andover for conducting these SOTAs, but are they addressing some of the underlying issues despite having all these survey results?
I for one will be pressing our own kids’ schools for some of this kind of survey information, and until then will assign some applicability to our own schools and BSs in general.
As an FYI, a look at past Andover SOTAs since 2014 suggest there hasn’t been a lot of improvement in key areas of mental health, sex, drugs and alcohol, major offences, academic integrity, and in terms of hook-up culture, things have really deteriorated (unless one actually is an advocate of hook-up culture). There’s a lot to digest, but here are some links if people want to read the yearly SOTAs and compare/contrast.
2019 Andover SOTA: http://pdf.phillipian.net/2019/05102019.pdf
2018 Andover SOTA: http://pdf.phillipian.net/2018/05112018.pdf
2017 Andover SOTA: http://pdf.phillipian.net/2017/05122017.pdf
2016 Andover SOTA: http://pdf.phillipian.net/2016/05132016.pdf
2015 Andover SOTA: http://pdf.phillipian.net/2015/05082015.pdf
2014 Andover SOTA: http://pdf.phillipian.net/2014/05162014.pdf
It may be a while before all schools conduct and publish the exact same survey with Qs worded exactly the same way so that all comparisons are apples-to-apples. I’m not holding my breath.
If you believe alcohol and drug use are the same everywhere regardless of school size, location, disciplinary policies, overall school culture, approach to advising, mental health supports and programming, etc, there is no need to read further.
Scroll along.
No need to get into a debate.
But for those of you who suspect all schools might not be the same in terms of alcohol and drug usage, you might want to consider reaching out directly to parents who have had multiple children attend different boarding schools.
@quenn used to post about differences in alcohol, drug, and tobacco use at different schools (kids attended SAS, Exeter, and Choate, if I recall?) Might be worth looking up her old posts. @SevenDad had daughters attend SAS, George, Masters. I believe @Garandman also had experience with multiple schools, including Andover. I personally think it is worth digging around to understand some of the differences in what may be happening on campus… and in how issues and incidents are managed.
Hi everyone,
Just wanted to add a small clarification to the discussion. SOTAs (the surveys) are conducted by The Phillipian, our (uncensored) student-run school newspaper–not by the school itself. This might change some of your thoughts, particularly the ones concerning why the administration seems to not be addressing the underlying issues, as these surveys were never their initiative to begin with.
Hope this helps.
@DroidsLookingFor - I don’t recall seeing the results anywhere other than the PowerPoint presentation that weekend, so probably not publicly available as in posted on a website. But if a stakeholder wanted the info, they probably would provide it. I didn’t get the sense it was secret.
I posted about it back in the fall in more detail, in a thread about stress at schools. My theory is that (a) all teens are more depressed and stressed in this country than they used to be, especially over-achieving college-bound kids, (b) overall it more acceptable to talk about being stressed and depressed, (c) youth feel more empowered to state their dissatisfaction and demands. It isn’t a Cate phenomenon. It is a cultural one. The pressure to get into “the best” colleges is on full display on this board, and has only intensified in the past 5 years. The part that might be more uniquely Cate is that the students perceive there is an archetypal Cate student (super academics, super involved, well-rounded, gunning for leadership opportunities, etc), and in reality few kids measure up to that perceived perfection they think they see in others. Because it is such a small school, feeling like you are different/lesser than can be especially hard.
To be clear, the survey did not address sex and drugs. From what I can gather from kiddo, there’s very little drinking on campus, but there is some weed. If caught with it, kids get suspended. There are probably a couple per year (not sure about that). He also thought there was less performance-enhancing drug use than in other schools.
Sex? Yeah, of course it happens, although it is difficult to find privacy.
I do agree with @Calimex and @Happytimes2001 that the school cultures can vary a lot around these issues, just as our own families and children vary. But it is naive to think that there are any schools out there that have miraculously neutralized all teen impulsivity.
^^^ I have to believe that fact also provides the students with a little (or a lot) more comfort regarding anonymity.
@CateCAParent I would agree with you that the stress on kids is enormous in this culture. I would also add that I think in addition to not measuring up to expected norms, many kids talk openly about their struggles with mental health. I do not remember anyone talking about seeing a therapist when I was growing up. A few kids did hit some real bumps and had issues with mental illness and addiction in my town/school. It was mainly swept under the rug.
But my kids had kids in grade school talking about their issues and mental struggles. By Middle school it was suicide and self-harm. Some kids were very open about their issues. Some talked repeatedly about their struggles and their therapists.
This tells me that society has changed a lot in some respects. Discussion about mental health and personal challenges seem to be more open.
I hope that any school which has these solid results looks at them carefully. Even if every BS had a class that addresses all of these topics. My kids’ school spends an entire semester on this stuff. It’s great. And anonymous. I bet that teacher has heard everything over the years.
PA parent of a “freshman” here and while there is a lot going on in this thread I will provide a few thoughts based on one experience while being at the school for part of 1 year.
No regrets…for kiddo it has been everything he expected it to be. He struggled to decide where to go out of his top three and I have asked him if he wishes he made a different choice and so far the answer is no. As a parent, I could not be too much happier with his experience. He likes being away almost too much but we do get more hugs and “I love yous” now.
In my n=1, what’s helped my son do well is he is totally self-driven and independent. There are TONS of resources at PA but the school expects you to do what needs to be done and if you need help, go get it. Part of the BS experience is about teaching independence but I think at PA, you are served well if you go into with a good amount of it. There are adults there to guide and help, my son has mandatory meetings with advisors. However, based on stories from him, I think independence is important. Tangentially, while on tour at PEA, one parent asked a student about class attendance and homework, the student’s response was “no one is going to make you go to class or do your homework. You can play Xbox all day. You just have to face the consequences.” I imagine most BS are that way but some besides PA may come save you from yourself (getting a bad grade? stress? isolation? ) sooner. That said, my son’s advisor knows him and speaks with him in a significant way daily. She has said, “I don’t need to worry about him” which leads me to believe that she worries about (and hopefully supports) others who need it more.
Regarding the SOTA, I think it is great the students and school provide transparency. One story re alcohol/drugs…Apparently there is a dorm or two where it is believed that seniors pass along the “contact” to the juniors. I asked my son about this. He said yes he heard that some places have a reputation for that type of stuff. I think bigger schools with more than a handful of day students and near civilization (liquor stores, decent sized towns, etc.) probably have more prevalent alcohol/drug access. That was my guess going into this. My hope is that I raised my kid well enough to not engage in the activity and the school dishes out enough of a penalty to keep things manageable. From what I can tell, I think PA manages it but teens will do this stuff and if you want it you can find it at PA…I think but don’t know. That said, it’s the independence thing again. My son’s view was yeah I guess it’s around but you just don’t hang out with those people. To be clear, I think the issue is relatively small and somewhat expected for a school of PA’s profile.
In short, from my n of 1, it’s an amazing place with serious kids, doing serious work, engaged in serious activity, and bonding seriously. At times it can be intense. I did for the first time hear my son use the phrase “burning out” near the end of a tough run in the second term. He made a mistake in his planning and spent too much time socializing. That’s OK but possibly not when one wants the grades he wants. He paid the price that week and it was tough to see him on FaceTime say, “I just need to get to the weekend and I will be OK.” Generally, it all seems relatively normal to me. One thing my son thinks is interesting and is OK with but has mentioned a couple of times is a couple (not all) of his friends are pretty exceptional (world class/best in the country) or notable at one of their activities. While this is not true of a huge portion of the population, I sense that you are reminded weekly that someone on campus is doing something amazing or is amazing in some way. I don’t know if this is a “thing” at PA or other schools but for the wrong kid, it could be a problem and make them feel “less than.”
FWIW, my son does not know one kid who has expressed unhappiness or he senses is unhappy. I have said to him, “really?, it cannot be true.” I’ve asked him twice and he says, “seriously, everyone I know seems pretty happy.” I’m taking the win and I’m done with happiness checks for a while.
@TheSwami Good synopsis. Sounds like it’s a great fit for him.
@Calliemomofgirls @ffsophiar S23 will be entering UNCSA in the fall as a 10th grader majoring in ballet. He also applied to SPS (at my insistence) and was waitlisted, which was probably a blessing.
@AndOffWeGo S23 is transferring out of his current private school because of a lack of fit. It’s a great school, but like ffsophiar, academics are not where his passion lies. Even so, he got a great education for one year. No regrets.