Puzzagirl wrote:
[quote]
Where on earth would khakis and a shirt be inappropriate **in an office where most are wearing jeans and polo shirts?**It’s still casual. It’s not like a tuxedo.
[quote]
I vote for the dress up on the first day and order clothes option. There are places where business casual means a bit nicer than khakis (or he will be technically following the dress code but won’t feel like he fits in) and there are places where they’ll be business casual but relax their dress code to jeans all summer. It’s nice to get a feel for what that culture’s variation of business casual means before you have a whole wardrobe.
You know, it occurs to me that there’s a lot of instances on this thread where people are assuming that their own experience is absolutely normative, and that anybody who’s claiming something different must be either mistaken or deluded.
Or, in other words, an absolutely typical CC discussion.
And yes, if you think this doesn’t apply to you, then you might want to think a bit harder about that. 
Oops sorry about that Pizzagirl!
Dfb, so where would khakis and a collared shirt be inappropriate if most wear polo shirts and jeans? Being a little too dressed up is still better than the alternative.
@pizzagirl- There are some startups where someone wearing business casual might get made a bit of fun of, you get some of the hipster crowd in there and it can get tense lol. Seriously, there are some places, generally startups full of very young people, where they might consider khakis and a polo shirt ‘dressed up’…rare, but they do exist.
In reality, though, prob 99.98% of places that are business casual or casual, I don’t think anyone would object to a dress shirt and khakis or a polo shirt and khakis, etc. As to why there are bans on jeans, or places that are not business casual, that generally reflects an organization run by people who always dressed up and believe that somehow it changes the quality of the work or the way people act in the workplace. There are some studies that supposedly show that wearing more formal wear to work (like shirt and ties/jackets for guys, skirts and dresses for women) induces more productive behavior, better attitudes, but personally I suspect those were supported by Men’s Wearhouse, Brooks Brothers and so forth, having worked in more formal environments and where i work now (kind of come as you are), the only thing I found in more formal wear kind of places was people complaining about the cost of keeping the stuff clean, and as a negative, I found more group think with people wearing suits then people dressing less formally, but nothing scientific about that.
“There are some startups where someone wearing business casual might get made a bit of fun of, you get some of the hipster crowd in there and it can get tense lol. Seriously, there are some places, generally startups full of very young people, where they might consider khakis and a polo shirt ‘dressed up’…rare, but they do exist.”
Oh honestly, gag. This is the same pathetic mentality that considers a polo shirt too “dressy” for going to a place like Disneyworld. Some people just don’t know how to dress. If wearing khakis is “too dressy” compared to jeans, you’re probably pretty much a slob. Khakis can go anyplace jeans can go but jeans can’t go anyplace khakis can go. Ditto for collared shirt vs polo. Ditto for polo vs t-shirt.
FWIW, @Pizzagirl, you weren’t the only one my post was directed toward—but yes, just because you have trouble imagining a case where dressing up would be considered culturally wrong in a particular workplace does not mean that it is necessarily impossible that such cases exist, nor does the existence of such cases reflect some sort of “not knowing how” on the part of those with such attitudes.
I know a LOT of places with business casual dress codes where a 23 year old guy in, say, a pair of pleated, comfort fit khakis and a button-down, tucked in Oxford-cloth shirt or a tucked-in traditional fit golf-style polo shirt would stick out like a sore thumb in a bad way. Such a kid might come across as a Ned Flanders type. So, I personally disagree that “khakis and an Oxford cloth shirt or polo shirt are always safe.” That is the default in some places in the country, but not others.
And the alternative is not necessarily more dressy or more casual; it is just a different style.
I work in a place with no dress code, and I absolutely love the fact that there is no judginess around clothing. I can go into work in a sweatshirt or go into work in a nice dress and heels and either way feel completely comfortable and not out of place. Otherwise, I’ve worked in casual and formal offices that really did not have that, and it was easy to feel like you stuck out like a sore thumb, particularly as an intern. And I agree that it can just be a different style - if he buys a lot of khakis and nobody else is wearing them, for example. In my last office, I technically could have worn khakis and a polo shirt and fit within the dress code, but I would have felt awkward. There is an element here of fitting into the culture of the company as well as following the letter of the dress code.
Didn’t the OP say this was an engineering firm on the east coast?
I agree with PG. I can’t think of any place where khakis and an Oxford cloth shirt would be inappropriate. Pack in a tie in case you need to dress it up…roll up your sleeves if you want to dress it down.
That may very well be the case at an engineering firm on the East Coast. My only point is that standards that seem like a neutral choice in some places – say, a Brooks Brothers casual look – are very definitely not a neutral choice in other places. I’m just reacting to the “anyone who can’t see that is an idiot” sentiment.
To be honest, in a business situation on the east coast, I can see more situations where jeans would not be appropriate.
I asked my engineering husband…we live in the east coast. He says…the ONLY time the engineers in his office wear jeans is when they are going on a site visit and will be in basements, crawl spaces, building sites, etc.
They never wear jeans in his engineering office.
I asked about interns. He says they tell the interns their office dress guidelines at the interview.
I agree pleated front comfort-fit khakis could signal “stuffy old man,” but that’s not the only kind of khakis out there.
Look, this just isn’t as hard as people make it to be. I could walk into any decent store and easily identify a “starter uniform” for men’s business casual that could be dressed up with a sport coat and dressier shoes and dressed down by rolling up the sleeves and wearing more casual shoes for a more casual setting. Same way I, as a woman, can find a little black dress that I can wear with sandals and a straw bag to the movies, with a cardigan and kitten heels to a nice dinner out, and with pearls and slingbacks to a wedding. This just isn’t all that difficult to figure out if you have a good eye.
I work in a place with a casual dress code. I wear jeans 95% of the time, and usually flats and a sweater of some sort. It so happens today I’m wearing black pants instead of jeans. That still “goes” even though it’s a scotch dressier than jeans. Just like khakis still “go” even though they are a scotch dressier than jeans.
And all jeans are not the same either. I will suggest that jeans worn to the office should fit you well, and should not have holes in them.
Now we will hear about jeans without holes being uppity and dressy, lol.
OP checking back in with an update. We completed our shopping today with a combination of Brooks Brothers and Nordstrom’s. Son went with flat front dress slacks (more fitted than his Dad would wear but, not tight) and slim no-iron shirts. (Conservative solids and stripes) We took care of the belts and shoes/socks too. He went with brown suede bucks and black monkstraps. Thanks for all the help! He looks fabulous and ready to work!
Sounds great. In my opinion, it’s easier to dress down if needed…than to dress up. He has a good basic wardrobe!
And no matter where he is…there are stores!
That sounds absolutely perfect! Good luck to your son!
I’m going to have to do something similar once my son gets clarification on whether his new job is business casual or business-business!