Has "Speech & Debate" become an overdone, "tired" college EC?

Applying to College
1

Before i ask this question, i’ll note that my kid loves debate, gets a lot out of debate, and is not going to stop participating in the fullest possible fashion. it doesn’t matter how colleges react to it.

But I am curious…

D1 is a senior and well on her way with admissions…with a 'yes" from 6 of the first 7 colleges she’s heard from. She has solid stats but I also believe that her unusual ECs have contributed to her admissions.

S1 is a sophomore and just started debate this year. He has done really well at it…but he’s starting to think about colleges and I’m wondering if this EC (which is going to be the bulk of his activities) is going to be “enough.”

Thoughts?

2

I think speech & debate is like a lot of other EC’s in that it depends what you do with it. Lots of kids list “debate club” as an EC when all they do is attend meetings and hardly ever compete. My D is a senior who was accepted ED1 to Pomona, so she withdrew her other apps and we don’t know what would’ve happened with them. But she was able to list a lot of accomplishments, including being a finalist at many competitions, qualifying for Nationals twice, qualifying for TOC, reaching the highest level of the NSDA honor society, getting the NSDA Academic All American Award, etc. So there is an opportunity to demonstrate achievements at the state, regional and national level. Also these accomplishments are easy to objectively verify if an adcom were inclined to check. On the other hand, I certainly wouldn’t recommend it for a kid who doesn’t enjoy it. For my D, she has enjoyed every minute of it (and will be competing all through Spring semester even though she was accepted to college in December) and has learned a tremendous amount from it.

Is it “enough” by itself to get someone into a highly selective college? I’m sure the answer to that is no. The rest of the package, GPA, test scores, essays, rec letters, etc are obviously critical. My D also had two other EC’s that together with speech & debate made up most of her EC’s, but speech & debate was the big one. I’ve also seen kids who spend so much energy on speech & debate that they let their GPA suffer, and I would definitely not recommend that!

Here’s a link to info on the value of debate: http://hwdebate.org/the-value-of-debate/. That particular site emphasizes debate but speech is also a great activity. A lot of kids love theater but don’t have the opportunity to win awards that they can list on their college applications. Doing speech events like dramatic interp, humorous interp, duo acting, etc is a great way to express oneself theatrically while also getting awards.

Our school’s speech & debate team has a pretty good track record of kids getting into great schools in the last 3 years (the ones I know about), including Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Duke, Pomona, Claremont McKenna, Wellesley, Tufts, West Point, Vanderbilt, GW, American, etc. And this is at a public high school.

3

I would say it’s relevant if the school actually wins competitions. If not, here is what my son heard during the scholarship week end that he just attended…and won. “I feel like debate is something that all the private schools do for the resume”. SO, if his team is really good, and he has a leadership role it is definitely something to pursue, otherwise…

4

thanks @Corinthian and @ZBD5421 very good insights. The debate world is new to me…truthfully, I think S1 joined because D1 did not do well in it and he wanted to outperform her. LOL. But it’s succeeded beyond his wildest dreams…as a 1st year, he’s already won 3 state championships…including 1st place at a varsity tournament in November…it’s been nuts. But what that has meant is dropping everything from the tennis team to the newspaper staff…he’s young still and i rarely discuss anything college with him…i want him to enjoy the now…but I knew my CC colleagues would have good insights. :slight_smile:

5

Remember to keep the idea that “colleges want a student that is exceptional at one thing, not good at many things.” Don’t make S1’s EC resume a science. If he’s doing well, allow him to excel.

6

I think the reason many kids are drawn toward speech and debate is in its team structure; although you get individual awards in things and success ultimately depends on individual preparation and work, some kids, who do not excel in any other area, want to grub for awards, especially if the school has a history of getting prestigious awards.

In my school, Model United Nations is a really big thing as my school almost always wins in local and regional conferences. With a really talented speaker who just graduated last year (to UPenn), he led the team to earn awards on the national level. With that track record, a lot of students join the club, and now there’s like 50-80 people in MUN when it used to be a much smaller group. However, those “joiners”, despite my school still going on a hot streak in winning conferences, do not get a boost in their resume simply because they’re not leaders, but just joiners.

So, my conclusion for this is that speech and debate, like 100% other ECs, depend on your level of depth; there’s a difference in playing the clarinet in your school orchestra and playing clarinet in an all-national orchestra; same for debate. Colleges can ALWAYS distinguish the devoted and accomplished from the joiner status club grubber. This is how they pick who to accept and who to reject. For debate, this just means that a student has to really excel in it for the EC to actually weigh anything. And heck, the president of another school in my area (who always places 2nd, lol) who is really passionate about the club, just got into Yale SCEA. I’m sure the joiners, who would also have the 2nd place in conferences, did not get into Yale.

7

It sounds like a very good EC for him given his high level of performance. He won’t be sorry later in life, either (whereas sometimes I would like all of those hours spent practicing my clarinet back to put my ‘10,000’ hours into something else!). I probably would encourage him to do a couple of other things – maybe a consistent volunteer activity/area through the next couple of years, and SOMETHING in the summers besides debate camp. :slight_smile: Model UN, speech, etc. could be good additions, and sort of related but not exactly the same.

8

I think it is a great EC. It will also help him with writing his essays and interviewing.

9

My S is on his school’s debate team. I think it is a worthwhile EC. It has given him tons of self-confidence for public speaking and organizing arguments. He has bonded with his team and enjoys going to other HS’s to compete. It is by no means his only EC. He is also in Science Olympiad, among other things this year. I say if he enjoys it, let him participate. If not, he can drop it and find something else to do.

10

Some things never go out of style. But he really needs to do things for his own benefit. You might like this article.
http://www.pbs.org/accidentalhero/parents/college.html

11

I think speech has been the best activity that my daughter has been involved in. She competes in original oratory which means she writes and presents a persuasive speech. She has done very well with it and is having her best season her senior year. She has learned all sorts of skills that will help her in her college classes. She’s done a few interviews with colleges and we knew she’d handle them well. She’s helped other kids write and present speeches when they were running for offices. I’m not concerned with how colleges view speech as an EC. I know it’s been very good for my daughter.

12

@fourthmom, I totally agree. Being on the Speech Team has been such a wonderful experience for my daughter. It has been her big EC in high school and requires lots of preparation and all day Saturday tournaments. And she has been extremely successful in both her invitational and state series. The time commitment is huge. She competes in Oratorical Declamation, Original Oratory and Radio Speaking and this past weekend placed third in Radio Speaking at the state tournament.

13

“Enough” depends on what your son is interested in and how much academic work/EC time he can manage without becoming over-stressed. Debate was an ideal EC for our son; it honed his critical thinking skills, taught him to analyze both sides of issues, and made him a very comfortable, articulate presenter which has served him well in college. I can’t imagine any other EC that would have been better for him. The time commitment, combined with a rigorous academic load, was significant. He had little time for other EC’s beyond a school play. Ultimately, your son’s interests should guide his choices…don’t try to push him into a particular EC based on what you think colleges may want.

14

I think speech and debate are great ECs. The ability to frame arguments and speak clearly and intelligently on a wide range of topics is going to be important long after soccer, or student government are of utility in someone’s work life

15

Debate team is the only “Sports Team” available to nerds hahah

All jokes aside, I think people like debate because it’s the team effort that gets you far.

16

Haven’t you heard of Quiz Bowl, Speech Team, Robotics, Math teams, Science Olympiad teams, and Academic Decathlon? I am sure I am forgetting a few, too…