Thare are countless threads and numerous articles detailing how the landscape of college admissions has changed over the years. Clearly, students are presenting with accomplishments and academic achievements nearly unheard of a few decades ago. Many of us, parents, remember a time when almost no one started college with college credits under their belts. Now it is expected that most of their high school classes will be college level - AP, IB, CC etc. With kids starting college so much more credentialed, I wonder how this has actually changed the experience at college. Do you think classes are being taught differently? At a higher level? Are students achieving more in college since they come in with so much more experience? Perhaps there is no real way to measure this. I’m just curious.
I don’t think classes are taught differently – but I do think the college experience as a whole is different. For one, there’s no such thing anymore as a fun summer off, going to Europe with a backpack or getting a fun job in some shake shack on the beach. (At least not for the majority of students. Obviously, there will always be wealthy students or those lucky enough to attend rich schools which can offer “fun” summer programs.)
Kids are much more career-oriented, many of them looking for paid internships or decent jobs over the summer. There is a greater emphasis on college as preparation for a career and less for a “life of the mind.” As result, colleges are cutting back on majors and classes that were once popular: foreign languages, for example, or giving once popular majors some “economic teeth” (for example “communications” classes now part of many English literature degrees.)
I think a lot of it has to do with the enormous cost of college, which forces more students to look at it as a purely practical undertaking which needs to pay off with a good job with benefits.
And I also think that it has to do with the general impoverishment of the middle/working class. We just can’t afford a lot of the fun that we could even during the 80s.
I agree that (with the exception of after frosh year maybe), students need to be using summers to get internship or research experience as much as possible. My nephew didn’t do this — graduated a couple years ago and struggled in the job market because he was competing against kids with better resumes.
But even though students are taking more APs, etc, a lot of the top colleges don’t give credit for them. They may give placement, though. Or kids retake the intro classes and have a lot better chance of getting an A because they’ve seen a lot of the material again.
The flip side is that it seems to me that schools offer more tutoring than I remember. And the internet gives you more ways to get homework help on complex topics.
There’s far more research at the undergrad level than there ever used to be (at least at most schools). I’d have loved going to college now vs just “classes” back then. I think schools have learned to tap into the younger minds. Many really can grasp things pretty easily and are rather willing to think outside the box. They just need the chance.
Far more tutoring is available and trying to see that students graduate. I still recall one prof, on the first day, writing an A on the board and telling us students. “That took me three strokes of the chalk.” Then he wrote an F right next to it and said, “That also took me three strokes of the chalk. I don’t care which grade you get. It’s the same work for me. What you get is up to you.” I wonder if a prof could openly do that without fear of complaints today.
And quite honestly? The food is a ton better now too (again, at most places).
I suspect the competitiveness with resumes comes because college used to more or less guarantee a job (barring poor people skills, of course). Now there are fewer (desirable) jobs per graduate in many fields so it makes sense to try to be on the “got one” side.
I am not entirely sure that I agree that college today is more focused on career prep rather than “life of the mind.” Of course I have nothing to base this on other than my own observations. When we took D to orientation we sat in a meeting where students were specifically told not to focus on careers… and to focus instead on taking classes that seem interesting. My D did not want a preprofessional environment so this worked out for her. This, of course, comes with pros and cons… it’s important to have time to get in all of the prerequisites.
However… that being said… I do believe that students today are expected to hit the ground running and begin to build a resume right away. Internships… research… etc. This seems to go against what we were told… which was not to focus on careers right away.
It’s definitely not expected that students take AP/IB classes. Only about a third of all high school graduates take a single AP exam, and then you have to take into account everyone that doesn’t graduate. I think a lot of times it’s about perspective. If you grow up in a lower middle class area, but raise your kids in an upper middle class area, then it can seem like high school has become more competitive, but really you’re just in a different environment.
AP/IB classes have replaced many honors versions of classes in HS. In college- kids still take classes for the same credits/hours, live in dorms and apartments and do similar activities.
The major difference I see is the widespread use of computer technology. Not just the personal computer but the use of laptops instead of desktops. Everything has gone electronic- no more printed timetables et al. Access to lectures, et al online. Smart phones with instant communication instead of the old fashioned telephone. The internet and all of its uses- research, social media… Programs for complex calculations, word processing, tables et al make the dreary work so much easier.
I agree that undergrad research opportunities seem much more available to more students. Seems to be more emphasis on knowing your major and students looking for getting a job with their classes instead of an education.
I think parents are paying more attention to their college students now. Constant connectivity through texting & cell phones, and parents checking more often on grades & graduation requirements. Given the high cost of college, many parents are very concerned about whether their money is being wasted or there is a risk of taking more than 4 years.
Instant communication/information is probably the biggest difference. Although, as far as son was concerned, parents did not exist (unanswered emails/phone calls most of the time).
I remember when I was in high school in the 80’s the biggest decision I had to make was did I want wood working, cooking or typing. Boy have things changed. I do not remember that as one of my kids choices in HS. The pressure all these kids are under these past few years as the competition is fierce. I sure will be glad when my kids are done with college and have good stable jobs. I think then I will breath with relief
The biggest change to me is the emphasis on research. More students are seeking out research opportunities than when I was in college. More students also seem to be pursuing double majors, dual degrees, minors, and certificates than I remember. Otherwise, I don’t see any other major academic differences. There does seem to be better amenities, food, and a broader variety of ECs, however.
CC forums often are not a good representation of typical students. Most students do not take any AB, IB, CC, … classes. Among the minority who do take AP classes, 74% take 3 or fewer across their full 4 years of high school.
If you mean students attending highly selective colleges, it may be expected to take some advanced classes if they are offered, but it is still not required that most HS classes be college level. Instead many HYPSM… type colleges make statements like “It’s crazy for students to think in lockstep they must take four or five or six advanced-placement courses because colleges demand it.” (Harvard) or “One thing we are trying to do is dispel the myth that a curriculum loaded to the brim with Advanced Placement courses—with no regard to a student’s happiness or personal interests—is a prerequisite for admission to Stanford. Such a course load is not required, nor is it always healthy…” (Stanford).
One difference is colleges with a large number of students who took AP classes in HS often have different starting points in intro sequences for HS backgrounds. For example, before starting using an advisory placement diagnostic test in 2016, Stanford used to offer the following suggested starting points, which vary based on AP/IB classes and scores.
No HS Calculus – Math 19 (slow version of single variable calc) or Math 41 (fast version of single variable calc)
Calc AB with score of 4 or BC with score of 3 – Math 20 (2nd third of slow version) or Math 42 (2nd half of fast version)
Calc AB with score of 5 or BC with score of 4+ – Math 51 (multi-variable calc), or Math 51H/ 61M/61DM (more advanced versions of 51)
I think when we recall our own high school experiences (as parents) we need to remember that schools varied then just as they do now. AP tests go back to at least the 70s. My public high school had them and all the “top” kids in my school took them, though only in senior year at that time. Several routinely went to top colleges too.
I know I took three, and also had Astronomy as one of my science elective courses. I grew up in a small city in a very rural county, but our high school was awesome - even if I didn’t appreciate it at the time. I know my transition to college was super easy academically. I had college peers who struggled due to an inferior academic foundation.
I don’t think anything there has changed. High schools vary now (the one I work at has never offered Astronomy in the 19 years I’ve been there) and they varied then.
I placed out of some intro college courses roughly 35 years ago. My son will do the same. Even back in the day colleges expected to see a certain amount of course rigor.
I think the main thing that has really changed is that colleges now offer a much wider array of intramural sports, state of the art gyms, service organizations, internship opportunities and other ways to get involved on campus. Back in the day, we (or at least many of us) mostly partied in our spare time. I’m sure that kids still party but now I think that many are choosing more constructive hobbies which, as a parent, is a nice thing to see.
I recall many students in my generation being able to “pre-req” out of preliminary courses, but I don’t recall kids entering college as sophomores based on credits earned in HS. I would be curious to learn how prevalent that is now. Many colleges, albeit not the same tippy tops, offer that - students are incentivized to do it as it offers class registration benefits.
Yes, because the pedagogy of teaching itself has changed. The internet/tech has quite literary rewired the brains of students, and so professors (and all teachers) have had to adjust. Chances are your student finds fewer and fewer classes with only 2-3 grades (midterm, final, maybe a paper). They are likely to have more assessments and more due dates. Projects, like a paper, may be broken down into more graded steps. I also think we demand less reading, but that’s just personal observation.
“Chances are your student finds fewer and fewer classes with only 2-3 grades (midterm, final, maybe a paper).”
I’m sure it varies by school but courses at both my kids’ LACs still operate that way more often than not, plus a small percentage for active participation.
One big difference I see is the emphasis on research at the undergraduate level. I went to a research university that is included in the CC Top University list. Maybe I had my head under a rock while I there, but I don’t remember anyone doing research except for the one time I dated a grad student. As far as I was aware, undergrad research did not exist. I was very surprised when I first started coming to this site and it seemed that so many were looking for schools that offered opportunities for research.
The changes due to technology advances goes without saying. Back when I was in college, there was no internet, and no PCs. I typed papers on a typewriter and used white-out. It was a very different world.
