Have HS teachers hit a new low?

Parent Cafe
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<p>I also don’t see anything wrong with the first two instances. Assuming the “interim” marking period is just that, “interim,” it has no impact on final grades. So the student was out for a few days (the reason does not matter, as long as its excused), and the interim report shows a B. Student returns, catches up with HW, and grade is back to an A.</p>

<p>In the second case, it could be as simple as an honest mistake. So, the grade is back to an A.</p>

<p>Cut, the educators some slack. :)</p>

<p>We, too, have a horrible AP Chem teacher (perhaps she’s bicoastal bcos ours has the same symptoms), which is why both kids did not take that class.</p>

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<p>Opie, I’m in the very laid back west and had some eye-popping things come up with high school teachers & administrators. </p>

<p>But in general, I don’t think teachers as a whole have reached a new low. </p>

<p>I think the stakes are higher, the administration is tougher, the classes are bigger, and as result, the teachers are often overwhelmed. </p>

<p>Leaving us parents often frustrated & angry. My sympathies, OP.</p>

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<p>“Opie, your kids got their papers etc back to put in a file. My D’s teachers claim it is school policy to retain everything (in fact, it is NOT). Yes, the teachers do turn every question into a confrontation unfortunately. The administration likewise”</p>

<p>A consistent friendly request made to the teacher first, then principal, then school board Along with the district or school handbook tends to solve the problem. Most school district’s in America have good legal advice. No action or ignoring a requirement opens the district up to a very winable lawsuit from a parent. At some point up the food chain, somebody will realize that. The question would be, how do you express yourself in getting your message across. Is it a confrontation? Maybe you are getting tuned out because your approach creates that situation? Honey and vinegar? </p>

<p>“Nothing comes home, ever” That’s not always the teacher… Stuff never gets home because it is dumped off. </p>

<p>Do you folks in Jersey have parent teacher confrences or open houses? Couldn’t you request when you meet these teachers to send the information home or at least a copy. Hell, tell em you need it for scholarship requirement … samples of their work… You want all so you can pick their best work…a white lie…</p>

<p>If you’re a parent who stopped going to open houses or parent confrences how can you be sure of what’s actually going on? </p>

<p>Not trying to be confrontational about this, but I honestly can’t see if you have your information straight, you losing… no principal is going to put their job at risk by not following procedures outlined in district policy, not for a teacher. Never met any that foolish.</p>

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<p>"But in general, I don’t think teachers as a whole have reached a new low. </p>

<p>I think the stakes are higher, the administration is tougher, the classes are bigger, and as result, the teachers are often overwhelmed. "</p>

<p>Do you see your two sentences here in conflict? Teachers are low because?.. they are overworked and overwhelmed? That would make them low? That’s a funny way to look at it. </p>

<p>Go back and read my first post advice… how is keeping records and being friendly, until being friendly is proven wrong… bad advice? Do you feel every error made is on purpose? Should you treat every error as if it was on purpose out of the gate? Are teachers low because they’re overworked in overcrowed classrooms? I do not follow your logic. </p>

<p>sorry.</p>

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<p>I’m confused here… was it a matter an ongoing grade calculation during the term, or did her zeroes actually bring down her grade that was an official part of her report card. If it’s a matter of filling in zeroes until work is handed in, then the report card reflects the grade earned after all the work was turned in, I don’t see a problem. I really don’t care what the teacher’s policy is during the grading term as long as the report card reflects the correct grade. I do know that many schools are using computer programs (i.e. Power School) that have little flexibility in what the teacher can enter, but they have to enter something or the program won’t work.</p>

<p>I know a couple of times when my kids missed school due to grandparent’s funerals and returned, they had make-up work to do. In the meantime the whole class is two grading assignments/tests ahead of my kid, and the teacher has to put something in because it’s inflexible software. When I’d see zeroes, I’d ask my kids, and they’d usually reply, yea I turned it in - the teacher just hadn’t entered it yet. All I cared was that it was entered by the end of the term so that her official report card was accurate.</p>

<p>i.e. the chair throwing - for many years, our kids and their friends have retold the story of a middle school PE teacher who threw a chair in anger. She had been with the district for many, many years (and prior to the chair throwing, many people had said she needed to retire) and although I don’t know how it was handled with the school administration, or what the consequences were (it’s a matter of private personnel files), she remained at the school until she did retire several years later.</p>

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<p>I have an appontment at school tomorrow.</p>

<p>S#3 is a soccer player, got nailed during a game, major bloody nose. He also has a bad cold, but that doesn’t ever stop him from playing.</p>

<p>Day after game, second period he sneezed hard a couple of times and his nose started bleeding heavily again.</p>

<p>Son goes to nurse who didn’t release him until the bleeding was pretty much over, at the beginning of fourth period.</p>

<p>Son missed a quiz 3rd period. At end of 4th period, he went to the 3rd period teacher to see when he could make it up, either at lunch or after school.</p>

<p>Teacher wants to give him a zero because of his policy that if a student is in school but does not come to class for any reason it is interpreted as an attempt to evade taking the test or an attempt to find out what is on it before taking it. Son has a 95 going in this class.</p>

<p>Son had a written note from the school nurse but the teacher doesn’t believe in granting exceptions.</p>

<p>This should be interesting.</p>

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<p>I always thought of the interim reports as a way to give students and parents a “heads up” on how their child is doing in class. In a sense, it’s a courtesy on the part of the school/teacher, so that action can be taken in the event that student isn’t aware of how poorly he’s doing, before things go too far and the grade becomes permanent. </p>

<p>Therefore, it would have been far more useful and accurate for the teacher to have simply stated on the interim “no grade available at this time due to make up work not being graded yet”. Putting zero’s down and then telling the student/parent he is earning a D in the class is misleading, misleading, misleading! It seems almost passive-aggressive to me. I think it is “telling” behavior on the part of the teacher. No, it isn’t a capital felony; the teacher shouldn’t be fired; cooler heads should prevail. But in my book, that teacher’s credibility, maturity, and common sense scores would all have fallen considerably after sending home this kind of misinformation.</p>

<p>I take reports (whatever kind of reports- interim, semester, finals, etc…)seriously; I want them to be reliable. Putting some erroneous information out there, and then saying in essense, “not really…” is something that would annoy me. If the reports are not going to be reliable, don’t send me the reports! I have better things to do with my time than read inaccurate evaluations.</p>

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<p>I don’t know. I don’t have a problem with interim grades based on the work that has been handed in, though, as you said, it can be misleading. My kids have told me a few times, oh, BTW, the interim grades aren’t right – I handed something in late, so the grade will change. And, yes, the grade changed. But then again, unless the kids are on the verge of failing, I don’t get that worked up about grades anymore, which probably makes me a bit of an oddball among CC’ers.</p>

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<p>mstee, you’re looking at interims as a mathematical score-based formula. That’s fine, but if a student’s performance is going to be evaluated using a mathematical formula, and the numbers aren’t <em>right</em>, then at the very least an explanation should be given (an * with a comment at the bottom of the page with a blurb explaining the poor grade). Put it this way- I wouldn’t appreciate being handed an interim balance sheet with erroneous numbers and then find out later, only after I ask the <em>right</em> questions, that the numbers aren’t correct, but were intentionally posted anyway.</p>

<p>Put another way- let’s say the interim was narrative based rather than a number. Let’s say the teacher wrote something like, “Karina does not complete work in a timely way. She does not hand in assignments. Therefore she is dangerously close to failing my class.” Then later, at the inevitable parent/teacher conference, he says “Oh, that isn’t altogether correct. I just wrote that down because she was absent and I haven’t graded her makeup work yet.” I’d be ****ed! I made an appointment, came down to the school, inconvenienced myself, only to find out that his statement was WRONG? </p>

<p>It comes down to the inconvenience and overall disruptive effect of someone distributing wrong information; and he knows it’s wrong…</p>

<p>Next time this teacher tries to make an investment decision, someone should give him a financial prospectus which intentionally leaves out pertinent information.</p>

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<p>Well sure, when you put it that way! – Actually, I agree with you – an asterisk or a note such as, grade does not reflect pending makeup work would be nice.</p>

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<p>We had an issue with S2’s IBWorld History teacher in 8th grade (9th grade class). Well, we actually had numerous issues. But he kept complaining about his low quiz, homework, test grades from her. This is a straight A student who never before complained about a teacher. When I asked to review these, he told me he was required to turn everything back in. So, I wrote a note. No luck. More communication back and forth. She finally sent home his tests and quizzes. Not the test questions, mind you, just the one word, fill in the blank answers on his loose leaf sheet. Very helpful. Teacher conference still produced no test copy - she explained that she uses the same tests year after year in order to “save trees” and if she let these out of her sight, the kids could cheat. I guess this also accounted for the absence of any handouts or maps. Finally went to GC and Asst Principal and was allowed to sit in the guidance office, under watch, and look at the tests along with his answer sheets. I felt like I was doing something criminal.</p>

<p>Midterm “study guide” was a two page sheet with a list of one-words:
Persia
Alexander the Great
etc.
Luckily S1 had a fabulous teacher and had kept all of his notes, quizzes, tests, study guides, etc so we were able to use his stuff.</p>

<p>Homework was another story. Son swore she randomly put a check+ (entered as an A) or check- (entered as a D) on HW sheets. There was never anything else written by her except this one notation at the top of the page. So several times he wrote pure gibberish just to prove his point, and sure enough, check +!</p>

<p>Into 4th quarter we were still having issues, and actually calling other parents to see if they had problems (they did). When we called to say we wanted a group parent/administration meeting, our request to have him switched to the other teacher finally was granted. But we weren’t allowed to tell anyone or else “everyone else will want to switch also”. </p>

<p>She’s still teaching, only she was moved to the nonIB classses the following year.</p>

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<p>I am a little confused about one thing: The Jewish holiday that would have caused the OP’s daughter to miss school was more than a month ago: September 13-14. If the student took more than a couple weeks to make up whatever labs she missed on those days, I can understand the teacher getting annoyed.</p>

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<p>mstee, I didn’t mean to pick on you. It’s just a peeve of mine- when someone in authority, who wants respect for themselves and their profession, acts irresponsibly in fulfilling a cornerstone of their profession (i.e. teachers are charged with educating; providing meaningful feedback is a cornerstone of the educational process).</p>

<p>And I don’t know anything about the holidays, when they are, etc. But if the teacher expected something to be done within a certain reasonable period of time and it wasn’t, then I could see him assigning a “zero” grade until it was done.</p>

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<p>boysx3, what was the outcome? Seems to me the teacher will have to make an “exception” for a note from the nurse. If not, perhaps a friendly conversation with the principal is in order. Surely your son couldn’t take a quiz with blood pouring from his nose.</p>

<p>Our district (MA) is working on switching to an online grading system; students and parents will be able to see all their grades all the time. Should cut down on errors (yes, teachers are human) and encourage the slower teachers to enter grades more quickly. </p>

<p>Opie, your suggestion to keep all papers in a file until the end of the year is an excellent one. If a teacher claims it is district policy to keep everything, I’d go to the administration and then to the school board.</p>

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<p>As a teacher I see no problem with a putting a zero in for a missing assignment. It helps to serve as a reminder to the student that the assignment needs to be made up. It also ensures that everyone is informed as to the grade that will result in the event that it does not get turned in. What difference does it make as long as the teacher is willing to change the grade once the assignment is turned in?</p>

<p>I cannot excuse a teacher lying to cover their own rear end on the other hand. Too many teachers, especially young ones I think, don’t appreciate the tremendous benefit that can be gained from simply being honest. If you make a mistake, say you made a mistake, fix it, then move on. That’s a whole lot better than trying to lie your way out of the situation.</p>

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<p>Go Parents!!! Lol Pwnd</p>

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<p>lolll3rzzzzzzzzzzz</p>

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<p>There were two occasions that I can remember with my sons that were similar to this. On one, the physics teacher simply did not report any grade at all at the interim and made the comment that he needed son to take a make up test before he could give him a grade. On another, the teacher reported a low grade, but made a comment that the grade is low because there is was zero averaged in for an assignment that he was in the process of making up; and without the zero his grade was thus and such. In both cases, I felt an effort was made to communicate how my son was actually performing in the class. The information was accurate and useful. If I had anymore questions, I could make an appointment for a conference (which I didn’t; I had the information I needed).</p>

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<p>OPIE: Huh? </p>

<p>"But in general, I don’t think teachers as a whole have reached a new low. </p>

<p>I think the stakes are higher, the administration is tougher, the classes are bigger, and as result, the teachers are often overwhelmed. "</p>

<p>Do you see your two sentences here in conflict? Teachers are low because?.. they are overworked and overwhelmed? That would make them low? That’s a funny way to look at it. </p>

<p>Go back and read my first post advice… how is keeping records and being friendly, until being friendly is proven wrong… bad advice? Do you feel every error made is on purpose? Should you treat every error as if it was on purpose out of the gate? Are teachers low because they’re overworked in overcrowed classrooms? I do not follow your logic. </p>

<p>sorry.</p>

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<p>Rabbi’s spouse here (some already know this about me but it’s relevant to my posting) and certified NYS teacher as well. (What a pain I must be…) </p>

<p>The public school system excuses us for many days of religious observance. If you do them all, from the first and last days of every fall festival (Sukkot, Simchat Torah…) AND the High Holy Days, it’s a lot of days. It’s a trust and responsibility to be as forthcoming as possible with the latitude provided. </p>

<p>I feel she was right to take her days, AND to tell all her teachers in advance. </p>

<p>But, from the teacher’s viewpoint, the learning gained from each lab is part of the flow of the learning of the course. To hand them in many weeks, rather than days later, was not the best possible approach to Learning the Physics. Even then she handed all in only after it was brought up to him re: interim grades. How was he supposed to know she’d be forthcoming ever?</p>

<p>I always advised my kids to not only tell teachers about missed days for religious observance, but be willing to take tests and hand in assignments a day EARLIER if the teacher wished it, especially if there was any question of finding out the direction of a quiz questions. Some schools have policies to give no major tests on HHD. We get a lot of leeway, really. </p>

<p>We have every constitutional right to observe our holidays and we should, IMHO. Keep up the other side of the bargain, however, and turn in missed work VERY soon afterward, if not before, the missed day. I’m really a bear on this particular subject with kids in our congregation as well as my own biokids. </p>

<p>I think you were lucky to end up with A’s once she turned them in that late. I didn’t even follow the “honesty” issue because I began being on the teacher’s side as soon as your story unfolded. </p>

<p>We only got as far as we got by busting our educational chops in this country. I teach my own kids to do the same (no real impact on the congregation’s kids on these points, hwoever, that’s up to their parents, LOL)</p>