Have these teachers lost their minds?

emeraldkity4 · May 16, 2007, 4:31pm

I was responding to #77 ( sorry)

The italics were Opies words and influenced my frustration with his responses to posters who have found issue with teachers.

they weren’t all from one response- but were his responses to others frustration with unions/teachers/districts.

I obviously didn’t go back over every post- and I admit I am trying to make him look bad to back up my earlier question of " how far will you go".
But as I am one of the frustrated parents, who has had my concerns about the education my daughter was receiving, ignored/belittled/dismissed, by some not all- teachers- principals, district, I am really critical of parents not being heard.

I hope that makes more sense?

Ill try to get back on subject now.

Opie_ofMaybery2 · May 16, 2007, 5:40pm

Gee emerald, I didn’t know you cared so much. :)

You’ve thrown a bunch of quotes from different situations that REALLY have no meaning with this situation. I am more than willing to go into more detail if you need it to understand where I am coming from.

“What transpired was somewhere inbetween.”

This meant between the school’s web posting and the newspaper’s account. It was probably not nearly as innocent as the school district played it off to be, nor as sinister as the paper described it. News has become entertainment, they compete for your attiention. How do you get someone’s attiention?? SHOUT! worry about the facts later. This was not an endoursement of the school’s position, but it also wasn’t a blind acceptence of the news accounts either. Somewhere in between means just that. It could be 99% in one direction or the other… You certainly can assume where my position lies on that scale… you have a 1 in 98 chance to get it right. I was about 85% towards the news account. Is that what you had for me?
(no, I didn’t think so)

" It wasn’t smart, I agree."

How do you see this as an endorsement? I’m agreeing that it’s a dumb idea aren’t I? Not very smart also can mean pretty dumb, can’t it?

You know, sometimes I swear, sometimes I don’t. It doesn’t mean one situation is more important than the other, it just means I didn’t feel like swearing that time.

“Some traditions (camping pranks) should be allowed to slip into the sunset.”

Now this, do really not understand my point? The whole thing was a last night at camp prank. It was just a dumb one, that’s all. This wasn’t thought up as a spur of the momment “we’re bored” let’s terrorise these kids. This was thought out along the lines of good ole boy camping pranks. MY POINT quite simply is camping pranks should fade away and NOT be a part of camping. Just because someone was a horse’s ass when you were in 6th grade overnight camping, does not mean you have to do the same 30 years later. Do you understand that point? Think along the lines of hazing with a campfire. Or sports hazing.

Really though you shouldn’t try and cruicfy me here for supporting teachers on other posts. Pulling stuff without the comments before and after make them hard to understand and do little to villify me, which seems to be what you’re attempting… WHY?

We don’t share the same opinion on some issues, why do you feel the need to try and gather the troops against me? Can’t people decide on their own one way or another OR even in between?

I honestly didn’t realize you have such a dislike for me or even that matter a concern about me that you would attempt what you’ve done.

Me? I just thought you were a mom whose kids went to a huge ineffective school district and have worked to overcome some special needs issues with both co-operative and unco-operative educators and administrators. I know your kids play soccer and even one is trying rugby. You seem to have left those quotes out of your posting… that’s a shame.

Opie_ofMaybery2 · May 16, 2007, 5:52pm

"It kinda reminds me of a white middle class male arguing that racism doesn’t exist because he has never “seen " it.”

Hey em,

I grew up on the government cheese… I know what it’s like to be evicted as an elementary school kid. I know what it is like to have to share housing and beds with another family. I don’t think there’s much you can do to out poor me. I was a kid whose other people’s donations sent to camp. Where stupid pranks were played even way back then.

And to imply I’m a racist (or even sexist) is just a bit silly isn’t it? Should I write this off to a bad day or what?

Princedog · May 16, 2007, 6:28pm

They are certainly heroic, some of the best people I have ever had the privilege to know about under unfortunately terrible circumstances, and I fail to see any connection whatsoever with the people associated in the prank in the original post. I have no vendetta against teachers themselves. Librescu was a wonderful individual who I am fairly sure never allowed a group of sixth graders to lay crying on the floor as he told them their lives were in danger and led them on to believe they might die. Just because many, many, teachers are wonderful, does not make these particular teacher’s actions acceptable for me. There are a lot of people who act appropriately in life, but that does mean that every single human action should be dismissed. Certainly I have noticed anti-teacher sentiment where I consider it inappropriate, which is really a shame because apparently now I could spend my whole life defending teachers, but when some individuals display a shocking lack of judgement, somehow it is inappropriate to suggest that we should widely discredit their actions and they should make amends.

I understand that you are not endorsing this, just not calling for these teachers to be fired. Neither am I. If anything, I think that sets a poor example for the children, who are really my only concern as I couldn’t care less about the adults involved here beyond what they’ve done to children, because to them these adults will just be fading away. To us, firing is the pinnacle of adult accountability but I think these children deserve to see people apologize, admit they were wrong, say what would have been the right thing to do, and make an effort to FIX the situation. This would probably be more of a valuable experience than just saying well these horrible people are gone, we can rest safe now. Unfortunately in life we often have to tolerate foolishness in some way or another but it is not wrong IMO to call people out on it and expect them to make a good faith effort in apology and EARN respect back, rather than just be suspended for two weeks. However these children (and the adults, because they clearly have no idea what the heck they’re doing) need to be able to develop some sense of human empathy out of this incident.

The worst thing I think we can do is to tell them to get over it because that implies you can play with people’s emotions and they just get over it. There is a surprisingly lack of human empathy in our society unfortunately IMO which causes many problems such as this. Somewhere along the way with the “class campfire hazings” these adults did not develop adequate human empathy if they could watch 11 yr olds lay on the floor crying. It breaks my heart to even think of a child so confused and in a situation so out of their control, and so heartbroken, thinking they may never see their mother again. The children themselves said they were very upset. I don’t care what they “should” feel, they feel what they feel. Period, end of story for me, if the hurt is there an apology is in order, which is something most people don’t understand. Qualifying something offensive with “no offense” is not enough. It does not make it hurt less. Hurting someone unintentionally does not make the hurt less. I do not believe that children cannot be disturbed or affected by incidents like this, I think that is a very callous view, maybe because I am particularly sensitive but I certainly would not have taken this well and I am very sorry to say that I am not the only one. When my sixth grade class was supposed to go on a trip I did not even want to go because I did not want to leave home for several days. Luckily, the teachers and administrators acted with the utmost professionalism. Had they staged a disturbing incident for no reason, I likely would not have been very eager to leave my parents the next time, which is indeed an effect, that is affecting a child’s development for no good reason.

Come on now. Is the “southern” really necessary? Painting with a broad brush isn’t the best - after all the teachers you reference from VT are (were, unfortunately, in some cases) in the south. There are plenty of exceedingly good southern teachers.

momof2inca · May 16, 2007, 6:48pm

Kluge, what I mean my “classic,” is that it’s a “camping out in the wilderness, middle of the night, lights-out, ghost/bear/wildman outside the tent prank.” Everyone’s heard of this kind of thing.

The difference between it and the teachers’ prank, IMO, is twofold. One, on a Scout trip, the kids are in a club and it’s a voluntary thing, led by volunteer adults, usually either parents or with parents in attendance. Teachers on a field trip are acting as professionals, not volunteers. They are being paid to exercise appropriate judgement, just as they are at school, where NO TEACHER IN THEIR RIGHT MIND, would ever jest about a gunman running around campus. It’s not funny, and similar to yelling “fire” in a crowded theater for fun, it can be dangerous. There aren’t (or weren’t in this case, it seems) parents around, which is probably why it was allowed to occur. I can’t imagine a parent of a 6th grader thinking this was a cool idea. Plus, the kids are generally required to attend because the trip counts as time in school. It’s still school, even at a camp, even at night, even in your PJs.

Two, public school teachers are, for want of a more dignified term, arms (and legs, ears, mouth) of the state. We serve the government and represent the government and its wishes for the public good. The Supreme Court even recently ruled against our first-ammendment rights to free speech in the classroom because we “trade” this precious right for a paycheck. A teacher was fired for saying she “honks for peace” three years ago when one of her students asked if she agreed with the war in Iraq. The case is being appealed to the Supreme Court, but most people think it won’t even be heard. The government has a right to demand its teachers not speak their minds on the job. I’m okay with this because, while I think my ideas are rational and wonderfully thought, who knows what my colleague next door would be spouting off! Anway, there is a very practical reason for the court to rule this way, one that non-teachers probably can’t grasp fully: Kids are extremely gullible to teacher authority.

They will believe what we say, even if it seems ridiculous. And they will most often do what we say, even if it seems wrong to them.

I experienced this first-hand this year, my 7th year of teaching, in a small but meaningful way.

One day, during my 8th grade gifted English/History class, one of the students pointed to the classroom clock and blurted out that it had stopped at 2 p.m. Of course, it does this everyday, and you probably remember it from your school days. Old analog school clocks often run fast (or slow) and every once in a while they stop, and the minute hands shake, quiver or jump ahead, to “catch up” to real time.

I was sort of amazed that by 8th grade, this student had never noticed such a thing and I was a little annoyed that he had interrupted the lesson to point it out, so I quickly said “yes, time always stops at 2 p.m. so the clocks around the world can catch up. All the clocks are inaccurate to the atomic clock, so everywhere around the world, they adjust. I’m astonished that you never saw your clocks at home or on your cell phones or wrist watches do that. Next time you’re home at 2 p.m., watch your clock and see for yourself.”

The kids at first looked doubtful, but after a couple more moments of this, with me acting very serious but enthusiastic, they bought it. I will never forget the looks on their faces, total trust and astonishment at this new “fact.” I had never lied to them before, had worked all year to build their respect, and so they believed me. I waited about 5 seconds, then I laughed and told them it was a joke, and they all laughed and said “good one” but I could tell they were the teeniest bit rattled (and actually relieved). And it reinforced to me the power of my own authority in the classroom, and how much responsibility this gives me and how prudent I should be. My 8th graders often beg to know what political party I’m in, but I will never tell them until after school on the last day of the year, if they even remember to ask then. I do this because I don’t want to influence their thinking. I don’t want them to approach history through a certain prism of politics, mine. It’s not egotistical to think that they would do this; my experience tells me they are all too eager to grasp at my viewpoint rather than formulate their own judgements. It’s much easier, for one thing.

All of this is to say that, because of the mandatory nature of school and the teacher-student relationship developed over the course of a year on a daily basis and the public trust, teachers have great authority and influence over their students – more so than camp counselors or Scout leaders or other parents. It’s inherent in the nature of this institution. You will find the same kind of power “imbalance” in doctor’s offices, attorneys offices, your boss’s office. Poor judgement, or breaking of the public trust, in the context of this particular insitution is magnified, and the consequences are (and should be) more costly.

That’s why you can google the TN teachers’ story and get 550 news stories from around the world.

garland · May 16, 2007, 7:01pm

Opie said that about New Jerseyans? Wow, missed that one. Nice prejudice, Ope. Sit in my Freshman Comp class, and we’ll see who knows grammar.

Opie_ofMaybery2 · May 16, 2007, 7:48pm

“I understand that you are not endorsing this, just not calling for these teachers to be fired. Neither am I. If anything, I think that sets a poor example for the children, who are really my only concern as I couldn’t care less about the adults involved here beyond what they’ve done to children, because to them these adults will just be fading away. To us, firing is the pinnacle of adult accountability but I think these children deserve to see people apologize, admit they were wrong, say what would have been the right thing to do, and make an effort to FIX the situation. This would probably be more of a valuable experience than just saying well these horrible people are gone, we can rest safe now. Unfortunately in life we often have to tolerate foolishness in some way or another but it is not wrong IMO to call people out on it and expect them to make a good faith effort in apology and EARN respect back, rather than just be suspended for two weeks. However these children (and the adults, because they clearly have no idea what the heck they’re doing) need to be able to develop some sense of human empathy out of this incident”

That’s a great answer. Firing doesn’t fix the problem, it just slides it under the cover.

“Come on now. Is the “southern” really necessary?”

You’re absolutely correct. However, when pressed about my first thoughts on this, my first reaction was why does this stuff always happen in the south?
Just being honest. Doesn’t mean I’m right to think that does it?

Opie_ofMaybery2 · May 16, 2007, 7:54pm

“Opie said that about New Jerseyans? Wow, missed that one. Nice prejudice, Ope. Sit in my Freshman Comp class, and we’ll see who knows grammar.”

I don’t even know if I said that, how is your grammar any way? Is she ok?

Who says I’m applicant for stainthood anyway? Why would anyone really care about anything I have to add to begin with? Good luck with your freshman comp class.

Princedog · May 16, 2007, 8:51pm

I think there is a perception that things like this always happen in the south, but that’s probably rather confirmation bias-esque. I just found it odd you would mention the incredible heroism and self sacrafice, not to mention the personal accomplishment, of a teacher who gave his life at a southern school, and then imply this is only a problem in the south, like all teachers are wonderful everywhere else or something. I know you didn’t really mean it that way but it did kind of jump out.

In truth, such disturbing things happen all over. I do not think of say, New York City as a bastion of human empathy, charm, and compassion. This does not mean, of course, that all of New York City has a problem or is inherently inferior in some way. I think there is really no distinction of the problem of people feeling they are above the general terms of society and that anything they do is just a “joke” to which we should take “no offense.” These were probably just another bunch of people who thought they were so clever to be thwarting political correctness, luckily the whole scheme was exposed for what it is, which is completely unacceptable and highly disturbing. Everyone always has to be the “special” person who jumps out with the October surprise, why follow the conventional methods that have been widely accepted for centuries of allowing children comfort and stability, why not just invent a new way that is much more amusing? Although I really still can’t honestly comprehend the level of delusion required to think you can just get away with something like this and people will congratulate you or something. But that isn’t unique to these teachers, or the south. Exhibit A: Imus. Exhibit B: all the college kids who are “trying to spark discussion” with their “satire.” I can go on but I think we get the picture here. Some people apparently were never taught what is consider in good taste and what is acceptable in society, which is really unfortunate because you can seriously limit your potential with that nonsense. Another good reason for these children to clearly see this is not acceptable and be told what is acceptable and shown there are consequences such as loss of respect.

Opie_ofMaybery2 · May 16, 2007, 9:39pm

“I think there is a perception that things like this always happen in the south, but that’s probably rather confirmation bias-esque. I just found it odd you would mention the incredible heroism and self sacrafice, not to mention the personal accomplishment, of a teacher who gave his life at a southern school”

Ok I consider myself well chastized, thanks. And the incredible heroism actually was by an Israeli professor.

I just expressed what I thought, but didn’t write the first time. If you go back to the begining you’ll see a different track. Jumping in at this point of the match, doesn’t do it justice.

Princedog · May 16, 2007, 11:09pm

Indeed, he was Romanian IIRC, immigrated to Israel in the 70’s after surviving the Holocaust, and then immigrated to America. I am unfortunately well aware of his background at this point, I wish it were not under the current circumstances.

I have no idea where these people involved in the incident are from, for all I know they are from anywhere.

I have read the entire thread, not sure what you mean. Just addressing the idea that this always happens in the south. Not really the case IMO.

Opie_ofMaybery2 · May 17, 2007, 12:35am

“Not really the case IMO.”

Absolutely, stuff happens all over. I was expressing an internal thought outloud. Was it a serious thought? nope. Just a goof. Done basically to attempt to defuse someone’s outrage at my level of outrage. I guess I wasn’t viewed to have sufficent outrage by the outrageo meter or something. I must have measured low because I was waiting a bit to see how things play out.

hereshoping · May 17, 2007, 8:36am

Opie: I’m curious: Do you think you’d want to wait to see how things played out if two male employees pulled this “prank” at a major company headquarters? How about a post office?

Or would you just think they were nuts?

Do you think the men would/should be suspended for two weeks for staging the “prank,” apologize and then return to work in the same environment despite their bizarre, immature behavior?

Do you think such a “prank” is more or less harmful when it is done with 6th graders?

emeraldkity4 · May 17, 2007, 10:52am

Opie- Im not going back to address all your post- but I didn’t call you racist- but you are looking at teacher behavior from another perspective from me and from some others on CC.

I am coming from a district where the lack of accountability goes from the teachers all the way to the superintendent. I quit my job midway through my daughters elementary career in an attempt to get her an appropriate education by volunteering in the building everyday so the school didn’t see me just as someone who wanted * more* but as someone who was working alongside of them for the school community.
Didn’t work until she changed schools.

I know that you have heard all this and more from myself and other parents- but somehow your take on it comes off as “our fault”

I realize that parents in Marysville may be quite angry with teachers even now, a few years after the longest strike in state history ( which was illegal), this could be where your defensiveness of the teacher union and teacher responsibilty comes from.

However-if you can acknowledge that teachers can make a positive long lasting impact- why is it so difficult to see that the impact can also be negative and long lasting?

Anxiety is one of the most common disorders in children- with some kids it is quite severe. Exposure to even one traumatizing event, may have repercussions that are lifelong.
If you haven’t had that occur to you, it may be difficult to have empathy that others may have that response to something that you barely paid attention to.

One of the things that we learn as we mature, is to be less egocentric and more empathetic to others perspective. Professionals are expected to be * professional*. Professionals dealing with individuals that have placed their trust in them, like therapist/client or doctor/patient are held to a standard of ethics. If a therapist holding a group session, led the group to believe they were in mortal danger- for $%#'s & giggles as the saying goes, they would lose their liscence.
A teacher- not only has authority over children because of position, they have influence over them because of the age disparity.
This case isn’t teachers making a casual mistake, like taking too much time to talk about baseball when they are supposed to be teaching the times tables,its about more than one teacher- planning an elaborate hoax on children they are responsible for- for their own amusement.
The fact that they couldn’t see ahead to the probable repercussions, leads me to believe that they don’t “get it”

Ive come across teachers taking advantage of the classroom environment before, but threats by teachers to students are disturbing.
<a href=“http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/07/05/17/100loc_a1teacher001.cfm[/url]”>http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/07/05/17/100loc_a1teacher001.cfm</a>

Opie_ofMaybery2 · May 17, 2007, 12:22pm

"Opie: I’m curious: Do you think you’d want to wait to see how things played out if two male employees pulled this “prank” at a major company headquarters? How about a post office?

Or would you just think they were nuts?

Do you think the men would/should be suspended for two weeks for staging the “prank,” apologize and then return to work in the same environment despite their bizarre, immature behavior?

Do you think such a “prank” is more or less harmful when it is done with 6th graders? “”

You know you’re absolutely correct! we should draw and quarter them immediately. We’ll show them!

Is that high enough on your outrageo meter???

Your not curious about anything now are you?

PLEASSSEEEEE, quit trying to make something about me that simply isn’t there. We could play the what if game as long as you like, if it makes you feel better, I just start to find it commical as you drift away from the issue at hand to attempt to flog me in public.

Next you’ll be accusing me of not supporting the troops…

Hit me again, I kinda like it.

kryptonsa36 · May 17, 2007, 12:29pm

What a ridiculous lapse in judgement.

Strangely enough, one of the essay prompts on the recent AP Lit test asked students to analyze a poem about a history teacher who probably deserves to lose his job as much as the teachers at this school involved in the drill do.

The first thing I thought of when I read the article was the AP poem… it’s kind of bizarre to see the parallels between them happen so soon together.

Opie_ofMaybery2 · May 17, 2007, 1:13pm

“Opie- Im not going back to address all your post- but I didn’t call you racist- but you are looking at teacher behavior from another perspective from me and from some others on CC.”

Actually em, you did at the very end of your last post. Or at least you implied it in a backhanded manner. I didn’t catch it the first time, but the second time I did. Kinda a low blow don’t cha think?

“I am coming from a district where the lack of accountability goes from the teachers all the way to the superintendent. I quit my job midway through my daughters elementary career in an attempt to get her an appropriate education by volunteering in the building everyday so the school didn’t see me just as someone who wanted more but as someone who was working alongside of them for the school community.
Didn’t work until she changed schools.”

Have I not shared empathy for your situation in Seattle? I could go back and find an awful lot of comments in your favor about the situation in Seattle. It is a terrible school district and will be as long as it is soo large and has such a large board. The Seattle school district should be broken into at least 4 parts as it is unmanageble in it’s current form. the fix starts at the top. The people who make up the school population in Seattle should demand smaller districts to allow for more local control. Would it cost more? To start, yes. But losing that disconnect between parent and SB would be worth it.

This has been my position about seattle for some time, can you find where I have said anything different?

“I know that you have heard all this and more from myself and other parents- but somehow your take on it comes off as “our fault””

I’m sorry often times it is…I can’t change that aspect.

“I realize that parents in Marysville may be quite angry with teachers even now, a few years after the longest strike in state history ( which was illegal), this could be where your defensiveness of the teacher union and teacher responsibilty comes from.”

Actually you couldn’t be further from the truth about that aspect. The community is pretty happy overall. The super that replaced the bad one was a finalist for super of the year… nationally. One of four. So things are pretty good. I’ve worked with him and find him exceptional in that he’s a listener, not a talker. Big improvement. Parents,teachers, fellow administrators enjoy that aspect. Two way communication… what a novel idea.

As far as how the community felt about the strike, well within a year of it’s end…ALL the school board members were gone. Either voted out in landslide votes (85-15) or declined to run again. The super was fired and several high paid cronies were sent packing. I think the community spoke. You may not like your teachers, but our community does like ours. Are there a few people who don’t like things the way they are? Yup, but only a few. If you knew the history of their kids behavor within the district you might understand why they feel the way they do. It is far easier to blame someone else for a lack of parenting skills. (now before you undie bunch, that ain’t about you, your kids haven’t committed acts of violence against other students or teachers, but these have. A teacher should not have to teach in fear of harm.)

“However-if you can acknowledge that teachers can make a positive long lasting impact- why is it so difficult to see that the impact can also be negative and long lasting?”

I guess because my personal pov is if you let negative people in your life control your emotions they win. EVERY second you dwell on a bad person you’ve come across in your life is lost, they took it from you. Did we run across a few bad teachers, yes, we did. If you want I’ll explain how we dealt. But I would never give those few ANY time in my head. I would rather think of the many who helped my kids along the way. I am sorry if that makes you upset, maybe you should apply this concept to me. Nothing I write should ever bother you enough to do what you did. I shouldn’t matter that much.

"Anxiety is one of the most common disorders in children- with some kids it is quite severe. Exposure to even one traumatizing event, may have repercussions that are lifelong. "

Like being beaten by a gang? like going hungry cause their’s no food in the house? Having to hide under the bed, with an older brother pointing a rifle at the door because a bunch of guys are prowling the neighborhood? Wondering if your teenage brother is going to have to shoot the guys trying to get in?

There’s lots about me, you don’t know.

“If you haven’t had that occur to you, it may be difficult to have empathy that others may have that response to something that you barely paid attention to.”

Em, I am far from the lilly white tower you seem to want me to be from. But part of the problem is I tend to have empathy for both sides, which for you apparently and some others, is just too much. It’s easy to tell other people what’s wrong with them, it’s a bit harder to apply to yourself.

Sometimes you have to start with what did I do to create the situation? We demand understanding of OUR situation, but give no quarter for someone else’s situation. How dare that teacher’s be out of sorts! Her mother has cancer, she shouldn’t bring those emotions to the classroom, she should be professional damit. Yes, there are bad teachers, but there are also teachers who mommentarily are bad because somethings happening in their world that “we” would want some sympathy for. Where I am confused on the bad teacher debate, is what makes a bad teacher? One family, two families? How can a family worship a teacher for all the help they’ve provided and another hate the same teacher? Sometimes IT AINT the teacher with the problem. Is it?

I tend to speak up here for educators because of the one sided attacks that happen so often on an education thread. Often it’s like talking to someone whose been married 3-4 times…is it always the other person’s fault??

“One of the things that we learn as we mature, is to be less egocentric and more empathetic to others perspective.”

Couldn’t agree with you more, yet I am attacked for doing just that. Maturity means accepting someone else’s opinion as theirs. It doesn’t have to be the same.

"Ive come across teachers taking advantage of the classroom environment before, but threats by teachers to students are disturbing.
<a href="http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/07/...teacher001.cfm">http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/07/...teacher001.cfm</a>"

The lake stevens HS teacher. Came from private sector and has taught for 11 years. He was dumb, but for the wrong reason. He gave a girl who wasn’t paying attiention an out. He lost his cool, he shouldn’t have. In doing so, the attiention shifted from a kid who wasn’t paying attiention in class into making her a victim. I guess you might not see it that way.

She’s getting attiention for not paying attiention in all the wrong ways. He hurt my feelings.whaa whaa… I wasn’t paying attiention so he called on me and I couldn’t answer the question, so he became upset with me. I turned on my tears (they always work with daddy) and they still didn’t work, my friends bought my tears and spoke up. Then he made the mistake, I’ve got him, I’ll tell mom, she’ll get em.

I guess it’s different parenting skills or something. If my kid came home from something like this, as soon as he/she spit out the I wasn’t paying attiention part, It would be over. Why weren’t you paying attiention? He made you cry? He told you weren’t working to your best abilities? GEE, was he wrong? I mean after all you weren’t paying attiention.

I guess I would be more outraged that my kid wasn’t paying attiention, than they got caught and chewed out for it. I would actually make them apologize to the teacher and I would ask every day about that class and what happened in it.

I guess we have different outrage meters, no?

hereshoping · May 17, 2007, 1:19pm

It has nothing to do with an outrage meter–whatever that is.

I think the teachers should be let go i.e. fired. Lose their license; just as a therapist would have to in that great analogy ek used.

If my kid had been in that situation, I would demand no less. Of course, I would get absolutely nowhere, because as ek has said over and over-- for some reason teachers and administrators are more often than not exempted from being held accountable.

They would not get away with this in the private sector, imo.

P.S. I’ve worked in both.

Opie_ofMaybery2 · May 17, 2007, 1:42pm

See and I prefer the suspension and the idea of a public apology to the students. Firing sweeps the thing under the rug.

To have to stand up and apologise to all those kids and the rest of the school might be a bit more comeuppance for the situation. With a firing they don’t have to face anybody for their actions. Which would be more painful? Getting a pink slip and finding another job next fall or having to stand up in front of the school and apologize and then return to work everyday?

hereshoping · May 17, 2007, 2:18pm

Of course they should apologize before they clean out their desks.

Have these teachers lost their minds?

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