<p>I agree with Prince dog, also.</p>
<p>I’m an elementary teacher, and often defensive of colleagues since there’s a lot of easy shots taken. I sometimes excuse what others wouldn’t.</p>
<p>But this one is absolutely horrible, inexcusable, disgusting.</p>
<p>It didn’t teach the kids how to act in an emergency. It sprung it on them, and then counted on their fear to cow-tow. That’s not even good emergency training. </p>
<p>I didn’t read about any teachers comforting the children afterwards.</p>
<p>It showed NO understanding of children and how they tick. </p>
<p>I have a hunch it could have been hatched to amuse the teachers, which indicates their terrible judgment and irresponsibility. The “group-think” that would allow that many teachers not object to it before it happened also bothers me, a LOT.</p>
<p>When their stupidity came back to bite them with crying children, then I believe the teachers tried to rename it a “prank” which shows their contempt for the children’s intelligence extends to the families as well.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t be able to continue to work in such a school; the teachers have lost faith with every student there. I’d request transfer out of that school, even if I weren’t on that field trip. And had I been there, I HOPE I’d be the one trying to stop it from happening when it was in the “planning” stages.</p>
<p>“The “group-think” that would allow that many teachers not object to it before it happened also bothers me, a LOT”</p>
<p>Yes paying3tuitions, this is one of the largest issues I have with this. Not ONE stood up and said this is wrong?</p>
<p>How many parents of sixth graders watched the news about Columbine and wondered how much or what to say to their kids? I know that I did (although I don’t remember how old d was at the time). How many parents of sixth graders watched the news about VT and wondered how much or what to say to their kids? And then to have teachers, to whom you trusted your child’s welfare, pull this kind of a stunt? Inexcusable.</p>
<p>“How many parents of sixth graders watched the news about Columbine and wondered how much or what to say to their kids? I know that I did (although I don’t remember how old d was at the time). How many parents of sixth graders watched the news about VT and wondered how much or what to say to their kids? And then to have teachers, to whom you trusted your child’s welfare, pull this kind of a stunt? Inexcusable”</p>
<p>How many teachers put their lives at risk at columbine and VT? How bout the professor who stood in the doorway and was shot to death to give his students time to escape?</p>
<p>In no way do I endorse the stupidity of these few southern teachers. However, remember painting with a broad brush isn’t the best either. </p>
<p>It just proves teachers are people too, subject to stupid choices. It was a stupid prank to pull. Just as stupid as the ones I dealth with 40 years ago in camp myself. For some people, teachers or not, they just don’t get that it’s not funny. Some people can’t help but repeat the mistakes played upon them in their youth. They find themselves doing the same thing to kids that were done to them growing up. This is not a justification for their actions, I understand why it happens. It isn’t that easy to break the mold for some. </p>
<p>When I was directing youth coaches in class, I had to stress the point not to be the coach they had back in the day. The no water, run for punishment, hard ass yeller that most of us really hated playing for. You try to get people to realize they don’t have to continue traditions, especially stupid ones (pranks). </p>
<p>Should these teachers and vp be held accountable, Yes. Should they be fired? no. The loss of pay and noted repremand is enough.</p>
<p>No question that teachers at Columbine and VT put themselves on the line. But would they have reacted as quickly if they had previously been subject to a “prank”, or would it have taken them longer to figure out that the shootings were in fact real? Remember the “boy who cried Wolf”?</p>
<p>Yes, teachers are human. But I do expect them to act like adults, not teenagers, when they are in charge of children. And this is a mistake that I believe should remove them from their positions of authority. Adults suffer the consequences of their mistakes, and some are, as I noted above, inexcusable.</p>
<p>(We can agree to disagree, Opie.)</p>
<p>It is one thing to pull a prank. Some pranks are within a realm of appropriate “funny business.” But this so called “prank” doesn’t fit within that range. This one caused harm. Feeling that you might be killed is not a light hearted prank but instills huge fear. As well, being told something of this sort is “not a drill” causes great problems in the future when something real does happen and kids don’t believe it and think it might be a drill or prank because the last time they were told it was real, it wasn’t. I don’t expect adults to pull this sort of thing. Short sheeting a bed? Yeah, that is a prank. Simulating a terrorist or killer on the loose / school shooting scenario? NOT a prank. Certainly not one I would think teachers would pull. On top of that, many of those sixth graders likely hadn’t even been away from home before. I imagine some were greatly affected and will be on future excursions.</p>
<p>There is that thing about “crying wolf”…</p>
<p>(We can agree to disagree, Opie.)</p>
<p>Oh absolutely. It wasn’t intended to be a personal attack. I just didn’t want to pull quote after quote from the section. </p>
<p>As far as col and vt, as people we have no idea how we’ll react, no matter how much practice we have. I don’t think the prank aspect applies to either of these.</p>
<p>I too expect teachers to act as adults. However, adults act just as illrational as children in some cases. This was one of them. The question becomes what is appropriate disipline for the situation? When we’re on the internet (nameless and faceless) it is easy to demand somebody’s head to the point of being kinda flip about it.</p>
<p>I really don’t know what the culture of this particular school is like.</p>
<p>Schools and communities obviously vary.</p>
<p>My daughters previous school was K-12 and “alternative”- a less formal environment between adults and students than in some schools ( virtually all adults, inc. volunteers went by first names for example),and while there was some inappropriate behavior by teachers
(* after my D had moved on, I recently worked with a young man, who had told me that while he was in high school , one of the teachers, who has since moved to a suburban district, smoked pot with the kids- which I think was really stupid- but I believe the student- knowing this teacher- he was big on being perceived as “cool”*)- there wasn’t a general attitude of allowing that sort of behavior, and it was not during a school event although I think anytime a teacher is with kids it is school related.</p>
<p>The way I understand it- teachers either knew about or took part in this prank. After the fact when people stood up and said- * this isn’t funny, this is harmful,* the teachers/school labeled it as a “teaching moment” ( my words).</p>
<p>One teacher doing something really stupid- is bad enough. But I can’t quite grasp the mindset, that would enable more than one adult, to not only conceive of this idea, but to act on it, with several classes of children.</p>
<p>I think the district should take a closer look at the principal and his leadership as well as require the other teachers involved, including those who did not actively participate but who did not stop it, to take a course on responsibilty/sensitivity training, whatever, in order to keep their jobs.</p>
<p>( this also would never have happened at my Ds school- on every field trip there were lots of parents involved- as drivers, chaperones etc )</p>
<p>"Feeling that you might be killed is not a light hearted prank but instills huge fear. " </p>
<p>That fear can last a lifetime, too. These are just kids after all; even adults can have difficulty dealing with the threat of death. My dad was a POW in WW II. Toward the end of the war, during the Death March, the men were put into what they believed to be gas chambers. They turned out to be de-lousing stations and showers, but my father had nightmares about his experience for decades. </p>
<p>In my opinion, the adults who made this awful decision should be fired. Counseling should be made available for the students, and funds should be set aside to pay for private counseling for those who need it in the years to come.</p>
<p>Opie–I didn’t see anyone painting with a broad brush here–the discussion seems to be entirely about these particular teachers and what they did.</p>
<p>Yes, teachers at Co and Va were tremendous. I adore teachers–I’m a college instructor and my H is a HS teacher, as was his mom before hand.</p>
<p>But we can both recognize idiotically bad judgment when we see it, and not feel personally defensive about it.</p>
<p>Elementary teachers have training and state certification, not only to teach curriculum but also in: reporting child abuse to higher authorities, dealing with fire drills in orderly fashion, civil service emergencies. These are all part of the regular school year. Since 9/11 many schools have also instituted various protocols to increase security, create teams and systems to respond in threats within and from without the school. Our Professional Development days (when parents must scramble for childcare) include this now. Memos circulate. It’s part of school culture now to anticipate one’s role in many kinds of emergencies.
So it’s not just “any” adult. A teacher is a trained professional, responsible for kids’ lives. For example, it’s now almost l0 years years after Thornton, Oregon and Paducah Kentucky, and more recently Columbine, 9/11, now VT.
There’s such a thing as “school culture” and it has changed in response to emergency needs. Teachers KNOW this; it’s spoken of all the time.</p>
<p>On 9/11 individual teachers with no one to advise them walked their kids home through the streets of New York City to apartments because bus routes were disrupted. At our school in rural upstate New York, nothing fancy, but simplyI SENSIBLE, I happened to be reading a book to my class when 9/11 occurred (amused later to learn I was doing just like our president at that moment…). A teacher’s aide interrupted, circulating a clipboard-page principal memo for us to read with the “silent” finger to her lips. It advised us on many points: first a sentence that there “appears to be a plane crash into the Pentagon and WTC,” then our instructions: no adult discussion for kids to overhear and misinterpret; no radios or TV’s in school that day; not to question any parent who came to withdraw her child from school that day, etc. I actually had to leave the building on my lunch half-hour, drive one block away to call my H on cell to ask what was happening, at which point he desribed what he was seeing on CNN. Then I returned to school and stayed “mum” as instructed. The understanding was that we were to send children home in-tact and not upset to their homes, and let them learn from families first what was occurring. Understand that there were teachers whose own families lived and worked in the WTC and nearby, and yet they kept their heads on straight and took care of small children, all day, until after 4 they could tend to their own worries. That is not remarkable, it’s professional. </p>
<p>The following day, there were more instructions on how to discuss what had occurred, in an age-appropriate manner, to help. This is simple, normal, sensitive professionalism. Our school was poor, but everyone acted right. Our school probably has a budget like the one in Tennessee (and I don’t think the OP who threw in “southern school” was very nice there). </p>
<p>It is absolutely appropriate to expect professionalism from teachers regarding children’s mental health and safety. Even if parents are “a bit much” sometimes demanding individual accounting of “their” child’s day when there are 25 others to consider, I think it’s fair to demand professionalism for managing groups.</p>
<p>"But we can both recognize idiotically bad judgment when we see it, and not feel personally defensive about it. "</p>
<p>I agree and don’t feel the least be defensive. </p>
<p>Check that, I’m little defensive because a few posters have come at me for not being sufficently “outraged” enough. What’s sufficent? Where ever their level of outrage is. </p>
<p>I guess until I demand we sweep through their village, run off their horses, burn their crops and listen to the wails of lament from their children and wives… I lack real sensitivity to the situation.</p>
<p>^See, tht’s what I was talking about earlier. Kluge used the same over the top charicaturing to dismiss concerns.</p>
<p>I haven’t seen anyone here ask for punishment. Rather, what they want is consequences. In other words, if you are not capable of understanding what is appropriate judment in dealing with kids, you shouldn’t be in charge of them. Very simple, to me.</p>
<p>Yeah, I don’t get this line of reasoning. Nobody said this is the worst thing imaginable or that the teachers should go to jail or something. Nobody said all teachers are bad, either. Even these teachers might be good teachers in other respects. </p>
<p>People are just commenting on why this was wrong and that the reaction of the school should be firm and they should also revisit what is or is not appropriate in these types of things. </p>
<p>By the way, I am a former elementary school teacher and someone who has worked in training teachers…both those in training on the undergraduate and graduate level and in conducting professional inservice training for schools in my state (but not on this exact issue). I surely am not putting down teachers as a whole whatsoever. </p>
<p>Also, I surely do not think this is the very worst thing ever to happen or deserves the worst punishment available. I think actions should be taken that demonstrate how wrong this was and to make sure anything like this doesn’t happen there again. I also believe they now need to deal with the fallout and fears of children and their families who have been put through this.</p>
<p>People can be concerned about this incident without thinking it is the worst thing of all or that the teachers are scum or whatever. It is still worthy of discussion, concern and action to avoid this in the future and to repair any harm that was done by this miscarriage of judgement.</p>
<p>“And really Opie- how far will you go to defend any behavior by teachers”</p>
<p>I guess that isn’t a personal comment about my lack of “correct outrage” over the situation? Because I said the truth is probably somewhere inbetween and I’m withholding judgement till more information comes out? </p>
<p>:) </p>
<p>cheers.</p>
<p>I’m trying to envision two co-workers setting up a prank of this sort (“fooling” about a “gunman on the loose”) at my husband’s place of business. I’m trying to envision that they would be returning to work in two weeks. I’m having a really hard time envisioning that.</p>
<p>Even after this teacher and vice principal were caught out, they’re still not being treated as adults.</p>
<p>This was your post that I was responding to<br>
*
What transpired was somewhere inbetween. It wasn’t smart, I agree.</p>
<p>Some traditions (camping pranks) should be allowed to slip into the sunset.
*</p>
<p>I didn’t agree that the event should be ignored-without addressing the harm done to the students.</p>
<p>my next post *I can see that the district would prefer that students being frightened by teachers telling them there was a gunman loose & " this is NOT drill", to be forgotten- but if you allow this sort of manipulative distressing behavior by adults that children are expected to trust, to go unpunished, what are they going to think of next?</p>
<p>And really Opie- how far will you go to defend any behavior by teachers?
- </p>
<p>I was asking ( to me) a relevant question, not TIC
I have read many posts from parents and students discussing problems in their schools- sometimes just venting and sometimes asking for help.</p>
<p>The attitude that no criticism is allowed of the public education machine, or needs to be looked at always in context of the whole- rather than the situation that your child or community is struggling with is not helpful.</p>
<p>Sanctioning these particular teachers- isn’t going to harm the profession as much as dismissing the incident as a “camping prank” which should be “forgotten”, leaving the school community feeling as though they are much less important than the teachers.</p>
<p>My ^ question came from reading these and other similar posts from OFM in response to other parents/students that have concerns about classroom behaviors.</p>
<p>*Animal farm comes to mind here. We’re all equal but some are more equal than others.</p>
<p>Certainly dump it all on one side of the issue with the assumption of those doing the evaluation are free from any “background noise” (re:agendas) that would or could cause distortion. I often find with the anti teacher crowd a blind obedience to administrators and their judgement. One side is incompedent and the other are wise and rightous. please.*</p>
<p>Really, I find that hard to believe or you would know more about the subject rather than throw a blanket statement out that teachers are unaccountable for their work. NO MORE or LESS than you are. my dear. Actually teachers are accountable in many way more than you are. You don’t think testing results are not without names?</p>
<p>And without knowing your friends personalities we must assume all teachers across the land treat any new educator that way? Or were your friends put off by nobody bowing and throwing praise in their general direction? How would anybody know or care where your buddies recieved their teaching certificates?</p>
<p>*Please, they FEARED? Why would they care what another teacher does in Their classroom? Who cares? Who has time? C’mon you really don’t understand how it works do you?</p>
<p>Youre very comical in your dramatic presentation of a teacher.
Why you’re attempting to villify a group of dedicated people who work hard everyday to help kids get somewhere just amazes me. Such Drama.</p>
<p>More than politics this is what makes my blood boil, these know nothings who throw out these blanket statements of how bad it is in education when they have absolutely and I mean absolutely no idea of what goes on today. Go spend some days in a classroom, sit by the kid who hasn’t bathed in a week because their water was shut off. Or another whose main meal is the school lunch. Or by another who has no jacket and it’s freezing out. Or another who can’t read and parents never show up for anything. We buy shoes, jackets, mittens and what not every year. I know what it is like to be a teacher these days. I have nothing but respect for the profession. It’s too bad some others don’t.</p>
<p>To them I simply say…
Make a difference. Till then shut up already about those who do.</p>
<p>How would someone from NJ know what quality grammactical english is?</p>
<p>And gee, What if it’s a chemistry teacher? or a math teacher? or a science teacher?</p>
<p>You go dog.</p>
<p>blah blah blah… Ok you win let’s kill all the teachers then we can start on the nurses… My best grades in college were in statistics I know you never survey without getting the answer you want in the first place. I’m sure your children’s success can only be traced to you and if it weren’t for those darn union teachers your kids would be kings.</p>
<p>Da ever think how screwed up this country’d be if you or I completely got our way.</p>
<p>So what??? this statement is going to ruin a child’s life PLEASE. Your outrage is unfounded. Is this teacher totally uncapable of performing math calculations or did she when she took math “hate it”? GEE I guess that would put her with the majority of people in the world wouldn’t it? If she can’t teach the subject is one thing, her statement (I hate math) is more or less innocent and harmless and felt by millions of people every day.</p>
<p>As I’ve said when talking about mine, sometimes the best teacher isn’t the nicest one. I seen this story before and I probably know more about how everything comes about to get to this point than you do.</p>
<p>You’ve convicted the teacher ahead of time. She’s abusive??? How do you really know? Did she strike the child?</p>
<p>Or simply trying something after other means hadn’t worked? Were you there everyday Why was his desk stuffed with papers? Maybe the kid wasn’t doing any work? Why should he have a party if he’s not doing his expected classwork?</p>
<p>It’s not a daycare it’s a classroom.</p>
<p>You’ve tried to spin this story in such a way as to make unexperienced readers think this woman is some sort of demon when in reality she’s Dr Philing this kid cause maybe nothing else worked to that point. OR should she just give up and let the kid slide? Why does a teacher only have to be nice to be helpful?</p>
<p>My god, you must have wonderful to be around. Your a gossip, a tattletale. What’s really wrong in these situations? Could it be you? your outrage is unwarranted. again.</p>
<p>It might not mean juniors lying, it might mean junior is taking something the wrong way. But I guess if dumping out a desk can only be interupted as an act of violence… well. That’s your parenting skills not mine.</p>
<p>Then your writing style and your realife are completely separate things. How much honey have you spread here? You’ve attempted more stings for sure.</p>
<p>You know if it helps you feel better about the expense to paint with such a broad brush by all means do so. However, it certainly doesn’t mean your anywhere close to reality.</p>
<p>In my own life and my children’s I have found no one cares for me and mine than the teachers we’ve had 99.9% of the time. I am truly sorry it doesn’t work that way for you, educators have brought so much to my kids. It’s a shame some of their best teachers were also officers in their union. How my kids suffered from this. :)</p>
<p>I’m sorry I just can’t believe your position on teachers, maybe I do live in the best school district in the united states, but I kinda doubt it.*</p>
<p>I don’t really get the badgering of people who have real issues in their schools and districts.</p>
<p>It kinda reminds me of a white middle class male arguing that racism doesn’t exist because he has never "seen " it.</p>
<p>ek: I’d like to read your post, b/c I enjoy and usually agree with your insights into public education, but I can’t make heads or tails of that one. Do you need quotes or something?</p>