Haverford College or Yale-NUS for Physics/CS

College is about economic and social mobility. It’s also about the long term for your life.

Yes. There’s an important social aspect and time for unique experiences and growth.

I wouldn’t suggest college and/or consequential financial decision making based on romantic visions. Life rarely meets this bar in reality.

Haverford would be a unique and wonderful experience. The Yale program sounds spectacular as well. But we all tend to discount the known local options for the distant and exotic.

Go to Yale/NUS. Leverage the savings to travel and explore. Take some pressure off yourself and your parents. They have a life to live as well. And if this strains on them at all -no way.

Best of both worlds. Imho.

This is such a tough one. As @Coloradomama has noted - you will need to acquire an H1-B visa in order to work in the US. Have you done any research into how the new Administration under President Trump has affected/will affect those visas? As much as I admire Haverford college, it seems like a bit of a risky proposition to me.

I agree with @privatebanker, who always gives very sage advice.

“But we all tend to discount the known local options for the distant and exotic.”

This is very true.

“Studying in your home country and going for a year abroad is still fundamentally different from studying abroad for all 4 years . . However, sometimes it’s the intangibles which are invaluable. And I can’t seem to figure out how much I value these intangibles.”

Actually, we don’t even know what these intangibles are. At least I don’t. Can you state what those intangibles and fundamental differences are? And have you ever been to the US? How do you know that you wouldn’t dislike living 4 years here?

“After OPT (we’re talking 2026) your company would apply for an H1B and hopefully by then the system will be fixed.”

By that time, who knows what the US immigration system would look like. We’re in a period of massive flux politically in the US now. Immigration could be more open or it could be completely halted by then.

Right now, after OPT, international students get into Master’s programs that lead to more OPT… if by 2026 the H1B issue isn’t fixed hopefully by 2030?.. Let’s be optimistic :slight_smile:

I’m not clear whether OP’s parents can or can’t afford the costs. It sounded like they can but op didn’t want to bother them and took it upon himself to try and get a loan - what are the parents saying? What can they afford? If I had the money I would totally invest in my hard working, smart child. If I don’t then the point is moot because I wouldn’t cosign a 60k loan.

Just leaving Singapore and living in another culture would be life changing. This can be done by a one-year study abroad at Yale but it’s not the same impact as graduating from a college such as Haverford. So the whole issue is, is the impact within budget or unaffordable?

@privatebanker I totally agree with you! In fact, I have always felt that Yale-NUS would be the more rational choice both for the present and the future. I would be able to study without the pressurizing thought of having to return loans in the future, allowing me to take courses which I would truly enjoy instead of worrying about the practicality of some of these modules.

I just wanted to hear a convincing case for Haverford because right now, other than the differences in experience and the potentially different way which my future could pan out, I don’t see how Haverford would be a better choice. Even though Haverford would bring me closer to the exciting tech/academia scene in the US, I don’t think these opportunities are unavailable at Yale-NUS (albeit less abundant).

At the end of the day, I don’t think I will ever regret the decision which I will eventually take. Sometimes, I ask myself whether it is wise to make decisions which I think the 40-year-old me wouldn’t regret. It seems to make sense to strive to make sure that I will eventually be happy/satisfied with the choices which I had made. But then again, I also ask myself if it is fair for the 20-year-old me to always give in to the 40-year-old me. Also, do I really know what the 40-year-old me want? What if all that the 40-year-old me ever wanted was to lead a life filled with passion, risk, and uncertainty? At this point, I am probably sounding as though as I am blabbering nonsense (the grass is always greener on the other side…). In fact, sometimes I kinda feel that it is pointless to think about it so much since it’s almost impossible to know what you really want. I am quite certain I won’t regret my final decision (since I am a rather firm subscriber of the “No what-ifs, no regrets” thinking haha).

Sorry for wasting your time on a poor boy with poor self-awareness… XP

@Trixy34 As volatile as his policies might seem, Singapore is usually insulated from negative immigration/visa policies because of how neutral we are on the global stage. While there is a chance that things can turn out for the worst, visa policies have been very Singaporean-friendly at the moment.

I agree that privatebanker has made some very salient points. I should be committing to Yale-NUS if nothing goes wrong (unless some dude comes over with a hella compelling argument on why Haverford haha)

@PurpleTitan Sorry for throwing ambiguities in my previous comments. I think choosing Haverford would be analogous to diving into the unknown whereas Yale-NUS would be akin to swimming in the children’s’ pool with my parents not too far from me. A year abroad would be a great experience living independently, travelling around, experiencing a foreign culture, etc. While I might struggle once in a while, if things fail, I can always terminate the programme and choose to continue my studies back in Yale-NUS. But at Haverford, the sense of fear would be real. It is less easy to turn back, and the sense of solitude will be real. I would be pressured by the loans and the need to convince employers why they should employ a foreigner. While people would usually deem these cons as bad things, they can be viewed as challenges where one can learn and grow from them. I think the whole mindset, psychology, and experience would be very different. The depth of the immersion cannot really be compared.

I have actually been to the US, and I have many friends from the US as well. I don’t intend to go to the US to enjoy myself and I don’t expect it to be fun and enjoyable. For me, going abroad to study for 4 years and then work there for another 3 years is a dive. People don’t dive rationally. It is not a rational decision. There is always that thrill from the uncertainty and risks which one craves. You can’t really put a price tag on it.

Unfortunately, I am by-and-large a rational person who struggles with his idealistic nature. If you refer to what I had replied to @privatebanker , you should be able to tell how undecided yet decided I am… Sorry for the rant… Sometimes, I just don’t know what I want :frowning: I really hope I can get some clarity

@MYOS1634 The short answer would be no. We cannot afford it because it would take away all of my savings and a sizeable amount of my parents’ savings.

Even if they were willing to pay for my education or even lend me the sum of money required for my education, I wouldn’t accept it. It would disrupt their life plans and strain my relationship with my brothers (I have taken too much from my parents in the past already).

Sigh.

" have always felt that Yale-NUS would be the more rational choice both for the present and the future. I would be able to study without the pressurizing thought of having to return loans in the future, allowing me to take courses which I would truly enjoy instead of worrying about the practicality of some of these modules."

"The short answer would be no. We cannot afford it because it would take away all of my savings and a sizeable amount of my parents’ savings.

Even if they were willing to pay for my education or even lend me the sum of money required for my education, I wouldn’t accept it. It would disrupt their life plans and strain my relationship with my brothers"

Your decision is made. Stop with the (over)analyzing, go enjoy life and make the most out of your time at Yale-NUS. Best wishes for your bright future!

Then there’s only one decision: Yale-NUS.
It’s a very good choice and you can spend a year in the US. Make the most of your time at Yale NUS :slight_smile:

“But then again, I also ask myself if it is fair for the 20-year-old me to always give in to the 40-year-old me.”

That depends on the type of environment you are in. In a stable one, those with a long-term orientation do much better.

In an unstable/chaotic one where massive regime shifts happen, it is the opposite.

Have you seen the list of the US partner colleges and universities you can study abroad if you were to attend Yale-NUS? There are a total of 11 US partner colleges you can attend - Yale University, Amherst, Swarthmore, Pomona, Oberlin, Vassar, Barnard, Wellesley… These are absolutely the best of the best universities and liberal arts colleges in the USA. Why not attend Yale-NUS and have the best of both worlds by combining it with study abroad?

And grad school (MA/MS) would be even more debt.

@doschicos @MYOS1634 @PurpleTitan @StJohnny @bluebayou Thank you guys for your help and valuable advice!!! I have gotten favorable news from Haverford’s financial aid office that I can stay off-campus from Sophomore Year onwards. Also, staying off-campus would not affect the value of my financial aid package. I have taken a look at the rooms available for rent as well as their prices and it appears that staying off-campus would save 5-7k per year, allowing me to save up to 20k. This would bring my loan amount down to 30-40k. In addition, my parents have told me that they would be willing to give me an interest-free loan of 20k so I would only have to take up 10-20k worth of bank loans.

While I understand that this doesn’t change things in their entirety (I am still paying 30-40k more for Haverford), I think it warrants a reexamination since 30-40k loan is a lot more “sustainable” than 50-60k. I just want to hear your thoughts again!

Once again, thank you so much and I really appreciate the invaluable advice which you guys have given!

Sounds like your parents want to support your dream of going to Haverford.
The costs, as described, are within the realm of possibility.
SO the issue remains, whether it’ll cause problems in your family, for your parents financially especially.

Part of your college experience is living together with other students. I am not sure what kind of off-campus housing you are talking, but if it’s just a room at a local residential area close to the campus, it’s not the same as living in the dorm with classmates. There are so many activities students engage in after hours, sometimes partying through the wee hours of the morning. These are bonding times. I am afraid you’ll be isolated.

On the other hand, I have also heard of a group of 2-4 sophomores renting an off-campus apartment together to create a regular college life.

I agree you will be missing out on campus life which is very much a part of the LAC experience.

I’m honestly surprised they gave you the answer you could move off so soon. Something like 96-98% of Haverford students live on campus. It is very much the full residential college experience. College at a LAC is about much more than just the classroom experience, IMO.

What kind of housing are you looking at and where to arrive at your anticipated savings?

Haverford isn’t the type of place where sophomores live off campus in group apartments.

Living off campus is also unlikely to be cheaper due to Haverford’s location on the main line (= “super rich for centuries” families).

@StJohnny @doschicos @MYOS1634 I agree that staying on-campus is a big part of college life. In fact, that’s why I am still thinking hard about giving up on Yale-NUS. I have taken a look at Craigslist and it seems that I should be able to find a room within 5 miles (half an hour of cycling) of Haverford College for around 500-600 per month. To mitigate the problem of poorer social life, I was thinking of putting an air mattress in a friend’s room for me to crash if there were any night social activities. I am not sure how much it helps but (at the very least) it gives me the option to crash there if necessary.

Nonetheless, social life and college experience will definitely be affected so I need to think hard about what I really value

@MakeMyLastShot21 I would be wary of craigslist for rooms- that seems way too cheap for the area. You’re also not going to want to bicycle through the rain, snow, and ice of the winter months.