Haverford vs Case Western Reserve? (and potentially Vanderbilt/WashU) [biochemistry, pre-med]

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I am a current senior of the class of 2025 and I am currently trying to choose between Haverford or Case Western Reserve. Any thoughts, tips, opinions, personal experiences would be greatly appreciated!!
Some quick background information about me: I am wanting to major in biochemistry on a pre-med track. Thus, having the ability to have resources to hospitals, have access to internships, clinical experiences, etc, are really important to me. I am already a certified phlebotomist, emt, and am working on my CNA certification (which I will have before I enter college), which I am hoping will be helpful in gaining clinical experience, no matter where I end up going. Also something pretty important to me is having a non-competitive environment; that’s not to say that I don’t want to be pushed academically, but one of my huge stressors is constantly being in a cutthroat competition with my peers.

I was able to visit both campuses a few weeks ago over spring break, and this is my current dilemma: I really enjoy the Haverford campus, the vibes, the surrounding city with the cute cafes and shopping spots, and its a place that I think I would really enjoy. On the other hand, I don’t super love Case Western. This is definitely not the right word to describe it, but everything seems super “messy” in terms of the campus setup and the things they have there.
However, I also know that Case Western is pretty well known for its resources that they have, as they are located right next to some huge clinics that are extremely well known (Cleveland Clinic). Thus, I presume (and please correct me if I’m wrong), that getting those internships and research positions will be relatively easy at Case Western. For Haverford, I know that they emphasize the fact that Philadelphia is only a 20 minute train ride away, giving students access to the hospital system there. But would the opportunities be as easily accessible for Haverford students in Philadelphia, then Case Western students in Cleveland?
I also know that the vibe of each school would be quite different, as Haverford is an extremely small LAC, while Case Western is just a normal school in terms of size and probably curriculum. I’m not too sure yet whether or not I have a preference for the LAC curriculum and vibe, but I would be lying if I said that I don’t feel a greater connection with Haverford because of that intimate feeling I felt while on campus.
Additionally, Haverford being a smaller LAC means that they probably won’t have as many resources and connections compared to larger normal schools like Case Western, and that is something that concerns me in terms of my ability to access those resources.
And just in general with pre-med help, I’m not sure which one would be more beneficial for me and help me get into medical school. I’ve talked with my parents about this (and again please correct if this is wrong thinking), and my parents believe that the LAC curriculum and mindset will better shape my story, and the journey of who I am when applying to medical schools, while Case Western, as a school extremely well known for its pre-med, would have an advantage in terms of the resources available to them, but also, may end up putting me at a disadvantage, as everyone from Case Western applying to medical school may appear as the exact cookie cutter expectation of a pre-med student applying to medical school.

And then I’m currently waitlisted at Vanderbilt and washu which if I got off the waitlist in May, I would probably go to. But should I? I know that these schools have better prestige, but will they be too competitive, or is there pre-med help just going to produce more cookie cutter pre-med students during medical school, application??

Again, any thoughts and opinions would be extremely appreciated!! Again, my main thought process now is between Haverford and Case Western, but some additional thoughts on Vanderbilt and WashU would be appreciated as well, thank you!!

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Are there any cost differentials?

I’d choose Haverford if all else equal. You’ll be happier there based on what you described. That matters most as you want to do well.

And if you don’t like Case, and you like the size of Haverford and I don’t know how you felt visiting either Vandy or WUSTL, but it’s likely Haverford is better for you.

Anyway, you’ve been wait listed. That means they rejected you. However, you are an insurance policy for them in case not enough attend. So they really don’t deserve your consideration - similarly as they are not considering you unless desperate. That’s a reality. Love the one that loves you. So I would not consider them at all.

Just for info, Vandy estimates they accept 160 or so a year but don’t list how many are offered. Last year WUSTL doesn’t show how many they offered but 2713 accepted the offer and 200 got in. So it’s not impossible - but it’s best to put it out of mind.

Haverford and CWRU love you - love one back. Get so giddy about it by the time they come to you, you’ll tell them no. They had their chance - but messed up.

Good luck.

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Haverford has a very good record placing students in med schools. I would not worry about enough opportunities for relevant experiences.

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If cost is not an issue, go to the school you prefer. Sounds like Haverford to me!

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You have two fine acceptances. At this point, choose one of those. You might get off one of your waitlists…and if you do :crossed_fingers:t2:you can re-evaluate your choices at that time.

We know students who were offered acceptances off the waitlist in August! It happens.

At this point, it sounds like you really like Haverford more. Many premeds do their shadowing, etc during school vacations or summers, or during a glide year following undergrad graduation.

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Congratulations!!

To be completely clear you have not been rejected! At this time the school has deferred their decision. Only once they close the WL and or inform you of a final decision will you either be accepted or rejected.

Unfortunately your current status is ambiguous so you have to prepare under the assumption it won’t lead to an acceptance but no reason to loose hope or get down.

These are emotional times and if you were rejected frankly you would have gotten an email that said you were rejected. Instead you were given an option to express continued interest.

Here is how the experts describe wait lists…

“Some students face gray areas like waitlists and deferrals. So, what does waitlisted mean for college?

These responses typically mean a college is still considering your application but, for some reason, decided to put it on hold. For example, the school could be waiting to see how many spots it’ll have in its incoming first-year class.

It could also mean the school wants to assess your application in a larger pool of applicants.”

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Thank you for your reply!
Yes there is a cost differential. Case is about 2x the cost of Haverford … which I know is kind of insane.
My current situation is quite interesting thought, in the sense that, I have been extremely fortunate to be in a situation where my parents are willing to pay for my undergraduate education. And, my father has already expressed that he prefers Case over Haverford as he sees these colleges things in a more traditional manner: bigger schools = more opportunities = more success. AND he’s already expressed how even if Case is 2x more than Haverford, that would be a cost he would be willing to pay for.
Again, I know that I am super fortunate in my financial situation, but I’m just torn between the two.

Thank you for your thoughts!! I’m going to keep on exploring both and try to find an answer soon. I will be attending the Fly-in Squirrels program for Haverford next weekend to experience a weekend as a Ford student, so hopefully I will find some answers there as well. Thank you again!

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Thank you for your reply! Yes I was looking through some statistics and it doesn’t seem that there acceptance rate into med schools is any less competitive than other places. I will keep this in mind as I continue to explore these two options, thank you again!

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Thank you for your reply! Yes I know the waitlist situation is definitely not the best and it’s been a huge stress factor for me as well :smiling_face_with_tear:.
I will keep this in mind as I continue to explore my options, thank you again!

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It sounds like you may also be having a hard time convincing a parent that Haverford is a good choice. If so, the following study may help. This is far from comprehensive as they only look at a few very competitive MD schools, but the per capita version (second list) is interesting at least:

Per capita, Haverford ended up being #13, with its top two destinations (again among these particular MD schools) being Penn and Harvard. Case was #23, with its top two being Case itself and WashU. The important takeaway here, though, is not that Case is a worse choice, it is just that Haverford is at least as good of a choice, despite Case manifestly benefiting in this study from having its own med school.

By the way, WashU is at #21 (WashU and Northwestern being the top destinations), and Vanderbilt is #25 (Vanderbilt and Emory). Just more examples of colleges Haverford was able to match, indeed beat, in this study despite them having a boost from their own med schools.

And by the way, many LACs are on that per capita list. Amherst is even higher than Haverford, and overall 10 out of the top 30 per capita are LACs. Again, the takeaway here is simply that good LACs help their pre-med students get all the experiences they need to get admitted to arbitrarily competitive med schools, despite not having things like grad programs or associated med schools.

So really, it is your own grades, MCAT, and other individual factors that will determine how you do, not which type of college you choose. And that means you should choose where you think you will be happiest, because happy people tend to do better.

And I know to some parents that sounds a little too convenient, but it truly is your best bet.

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Haverford is an elite school, and center city Philadelphia is an easily accessible commuter train ride away for internships etc. Plus Haverford is a collaborative academic environment with self-scheduled exams during exam period.

If the two schools were the same cost or Case was cheaper, I can imagine having to decide between two very different experiences. But Haverford – which you prefer – for less money? I can’t imagine why Case is even in the conversation.

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CONGRATS!! Haverford is a wonderful school!! And thee is no reason not to stay on WLs if these are schools you prefer, and make financial sense. You never know if a WL will become an acceptance. It can happen! Hang in there!

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Please please give your parents a huge thank you and a huge hug for financially supporting your undergrad studies wherever! Some families won’t do this even if they can. This is a wonderful gift to you.

Either school is a good choice. But you need to discuss these options with your parents, and explain why you can see yourself being mire successful at Haverford, if that is the case. And let your parents discuss why Case is their top choice.

Then you and your parents will need to come to an agreement!

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Thank you for your reply and providing that study! This definitely gives me a more comprehensive understanding of undergrad and medical schools and their relationship with one another. Thank you for providing this resource!

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Thank you for your reply! Of course, my parents are my number one supporters definitely, and I appreciate them so so much. I will definitely talk with them about this, thank you again!

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Haverford has produced many doctors who have excelled in their fields. Among them are the President & CEO of the Weill Cornell Physician Organization; Professor and Chair, Department of Otolaryngology–Head and Neck Surgery at Vanderbilt Medical Center; Chair, Department of Environmental Health Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health and Professor of Medicine, Harvard Medical School; Dr. Joel Selanikio, whose accomplishments are too numerous to list here; the immediate past president of the American Medical Association; a Clinical Associate Professor of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine and the founder and Director of the Penn Program for Mindfulness; and many more. I’m sure CWR has many alumni who are accomplished in medicine, but if your parents are unfamiliar with Haverford, this list might be helpful.

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We considered Case Western, however eliminated it quickly for pre-med based on:

  1. To many pre-med students, resulting in intense competition. We went to a CWRU event and vast majority of people were asking questions related to pre-med.
  2. CWRU is quite strict with their committee letters, they use it to control who is allowed to apply to med school. There are parent threads on FB with horror stories about this. Haverford has no restriction on who gets committee letters (unless your GPA is really low).
  3. Huge classes.

To be fair, CWRU does have a lot positives, like proximity to excellent hospitals and research centers. They also give nice merit scholarships. I am sure if you are super smart and dedicated and thrive at large school setting you could do really well there.

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We also visited CWRU this spring for my junior DD who is beginning the college search for next year and I’m interested to learn more about your second point. People in our session asked the pre-med advisor how to get a committee letter and we wrote down exactly what she said:

  1. Be within 3 years of graduation
  2. Have a 3.25 GPA
  3. Don’t miss the deadlines
  4. “That’s it. You do those things, you get it. Period. We don’t deny committee letter applications when those three criteria are met.”

What we wrote down seems to be reflected on their website going over the committee letter application (it’s called a composite letter on their website if you Google it).

That minimum GPA is super low - lower than other schools we’ve looked at who do committee letters. It also says that it is optional and anyone who doesn’t get it should still work with a pre-med advisor for support. Maybe “don’t miss the deadlines” could be “strict” but I also think that’s understandable that they would enforce the deadline?

I just have to wonder how many of those horror stories you’re referring to are really the premed advisors “controlling” who applies (again, not what their website indicates at all) and how many of them are actually students dropping the ball on something like missing the deadline and not taking accountability for it with their parents and blaming the advisors? (I’m a high school chemistry teacher so I’m wildly familiar with this… parents calling and complaining over something that they think has been done to their student only to learn that they don’t have anything close to the full story…)

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The OP would have made a decision by now.

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It’s been a while and I don’t remember all details of that parents discussions, however I recall the GPA cutoff being higher than 3.25.

You have to keep in mind that in the admissions game colleges compete for the best applicants and sometimes tell you what you want to hear. During our college visits we had multiple occasions when people from the same school provided conflicting information about the same facts. Some of them were clearly twisting the truth or presenting in a certain favorable light. Take admissions rate to med schools as an example - you can slice and dice this data in so many ways…

There’s not much you can do about this, I mean are you really going to chase admission officers years down the road and confront them about something they said long ago?

What you can do from a practical standpoint, is to take everything colleges say with a grain of salt, do you own research using multiple sources and form your own conclusions. Even with this much effort, you will not be able to investigate everything to the fullest, there always will be surprises (bad and good ones), but that’s what makes college experience fun!