Haverford vs Vanderbilt for pre-med?

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Hi! I’m a senior who is committed to Haverford and got off the Vanderbilt waitlist yesterday. Since I have only two more days to decide, any personal experiences, thoughts, or comments would be super helpful and appreciated!!!

Both are amazing schools that are very different from each other.

I’m interested in neuroscience on the pre-med track, so Haverford’s 95% acceptance rate to med school, access to professors, and the close pre-med advising sound appealing. I feel like opportunities to do research are easier to obtain due to the invested faculty and not having to compete so much than at Vanderbilt (please correct me if I’m wrong). I also went to the fly-in program there, and I really liked the cozy, friendly, non-stress environment as a low-income student who doesn’t plan to participate in Greek life or drinking. It is such a unique school with the Honor Code too. Although I’m not so sure if I want to be in such a small setting, I feel like I can genuinely be happy at Haverford, feel supported, and find my people. Haverford seems really inclusive and welcome to diversity (I’m Asian and from the northeast). That said, Haverford is less well-known and a bit more expensive than Vanderbilt by a few thousand for me.

On the other hand, Vanderbilt has great resources and more opportunities for research and experience, vibrant social life, and urban location that I wouldn’t want to miss out on. As a pre-med student, I’d really benefit from the close proximity to VUMC and name recognition from med schools. Vanderbilt also doesn’t expect me to take loans or do work study. I heard it’s really hard there, especially with the weed-out courses. Vanderbilt is probably a bit more stressful/competitive and has less pre-med advising/support than Haverford as the undergrad medical school acceptance rate was 68%, and I don’t know if I would find my place at Vanderbilt.

Can Haverford students get as much resources and opportunities from Philadelphia and other surrounding areas as Vanderbilt students from Nashville and VUMC? Would attending Vanderbilt give me a better chance at gaining admission to top 20 medical schools?

I hope I’m not settling down to safety or limiting myself from valuable resources if I end up choosing Haverford. I’m thinking I might grow more and become more independent by attending Vanderbilt.

Again, I’d greatly appreciate any opinions or experiences!! I was also waitlisted from Case Western, so any opinion on that would be tremendously helpful as well even though I’m not really considering it. Thanks so much for your time!

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Perhaps @WayOutWestMom can chime in, as I don’t think one can say these acceptance rates are apples to apples comparisons

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One of DS’ best friends went to Haverford asa pre-med and found it very supportive of his goals. I unfortunately don’t know all the details.

My own opinion, reading your post, is that you would be happier at Haverford. Yes, Vanderbilt offers a more vibrant social scene, but it doesn’t sound like that’s what you’re looking for. So does it matter?

Yes, Haverford is a pretty cooperative, accepting, and “community-minded”.

If you were applying to med school or to a research position from Haverford, it’s a known quantity. At a cocktail party in Kansas, yes, Vanderbilt will have significantly better name recognition. But for your goals, I don’t see that Haverford is disadvantaged.

I’ll let others with more med school knowledge opine, but honestly, it sounds like Haverford is a better fit for you.

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Thank you for your input!

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Haverford appears to use a committee letter so they pick and choose who will apply. Hence perhaps the 95%.

Based on what you write, the day to day doesn’t say Vandy - but both will be great choices. It is true some undergrads do get opportunities at VUMC but Haverford may have that too.

Greek life is definitely sizable at Vandy. It doesn’t mean you can’t excel there.

Congrats and good luck.

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They are equally wonderful schools with very different environments – assuming affordability, go where you feel you will thrive. ETA: Haverford is nobody’s “safety”. Congrats.

As an aside I would not hang my hat on Haverford’s 95% acceptance rate to med school without knowing things like:

-How many students drop pre-med after the weed-out type classes?

–Do the stats only include students who get Committee letters and, if so,what is the standard for getting a letter?

-What med schools are included as acceptances (ex. just MD programs or also DO, podiatry, chiropractic, overseas schools, etc.).

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Thank you!

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I’ll definitely look into those. Thank you

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I would focus on choosing the school that is the best fit for you. This is a case where two reasonable people could make two different choices.

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With respect to medical school, you could reach this goal from any of Haverford, Case Western Reserve, or Vanderbilt. If you would like statistical support with which to consider your choices, this analysis may be of interest:

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Pre-med advising, particularly at colleges that use committee letters, will discourage low-chance pre-meds from applying (which is time consuming and expensive; overall success in getting into even one MD school is about 40%, and overall success in getting into even one DO school is under 40%). Of course, the threshold for “low chance” may vary from one college to another. Both Haverford and Vanderbilt use committee letters, but it looks like Vanderbilt does not discourage low chance pre-meds from applying as much as Haverford. The apparently more aggressive weeding out at Haverford may be a blessing in disguise, since weeded-out low chance pre-meds know early that they need to find some other path, instead of spending a lot of time and money in futile applications to medical schools. On the other hand, if you would be willing to take your chances as a low chance applicant (knowing the likelihood of futility), you may prefer a school like Vanderbilt whose pre-med committee weeds less aggressively.

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2 things.

Most schools include everything in their percentage of accepted students (including the ones that took several gap years and even Masters). Premed classes and getting good letter will be a challenge in all places. I would choose Vanderbilt because cost is extremely important for premed (especially from low income) How would you pay for medical school with loans from undergraduate? What if you will decide on different major or research?

P.S. there is no school with 95% acceptance rate for premed. Not even Harvard. I would be very skeptical of 50% rate. Think how many students dropped premed. We once attended premed orientation at UMD for future students. We were told that 1/3 of all freshman (all majors) state that they are premed…

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Maybe. There are certainly doctors out there who never report that they are doctors to their undergrad schools. This is a self reported statistic. And 100% just don’t respond. If you would like to know how I know this, you can message me and I’ll explain.

You can reach your goals at either Vandy or Haverford. Choose the college where you can see yourself being happiest for all four years.

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As everyone has told you, DOn’t trust that 95% acceptance rate.

You have no idea how it’s calculated, how much weeding out the committee does, What they consider a “medical school” (MD; MD &DO; MD, DO and any advanced medical practitioner program like APRN, DDS/DMD, PA, DPM, DPT, DOT, OD, DAud, etc) or where those “medical schools” may be located (US only or US + overseas med schools)

I would choose the one that gives you the best day-to-day life (fit) and costs less.

Depressing statistic: a national study of pre-meds at over 104 different US colleges & universities found that only 17% of freshmen pre-meds actually finished this med school pre-reqs.

That means 80% change their career path for a whole variety of reasons, including, academic difficulties, discovered they didn’t like the job after doing deeper clinical exposures, found another career that was a better with interests and talents, decided they didn’t want to spend the next 11-15+ years of their lives in training, and other reasons.

Being a physician is no longer a guarantee of a high income and community respect it once was.

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Thank you so much

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I appreciate it

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I’ll just add, please think about your individual spending at both schools plus travel costs to and from to visit your family.

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So a couple specific things first.

For sure Haverford students can easily get into Philly. And also over to Bryn Mawr, and vice versa. The “BiCo” I think definitely expands out the perceived size of the school. Not obviously to Vanderbilt size, but more than Haverford alone would if it was off in an isolated location.

I also agree these self-reported and uncontrolled med school admissions stats don’t really matter, but that said . . . I do think it is possible Vanderbilt’s premed community would feel a bit more stressed, particularly in the early “weeder” terms. You could try talking directly to some Vandy premeds to see what they think, but my sense talking to kids recently at universities like Vanderbilt is this can be a bit of a thing.

Generally, based on most of your description, I would say Haverford sounds like the somewhat better fit. So really my only hesitation is what you reported about cost. I don’t think absolutely minimizing cost is always necessary, but it is true the less debt and more resources you can save for possible med school (or other further education, or a future house downpayment, or so on), the better.

So that is a difficult and ultimately very personal tradeoff. Still, I wouldn’t entirely discount the value of a community where you feel most welcomed, supported, and generally happy. A lot of other good things can come from that. And this is four years of your life, not just a transient stop. So you do want to enjoy them.

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Thank you very much for your advice being so considerate about my concerns!

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I didn’t think the travel cost would be a dealbreaker even though I am low-income (other things matter to me more and Vanderbilt is a bit cheaper), but maybe I just don’t know the realities of traveling. Thank you

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