I think Wes is an excellent fit for me, but my parents have some reservations about the school.
They feel that there's too big of a drug scene and that the administration is too lenient about it.
They're worried that Wes doesn't have that solid of a reputation with employers because of Wes's non-traditionalist approach to academics.
They're concerned that Wes students don't have good outcomes in general, be it employment, grad school, or internships.
A lot of this comes from how Wes compares to other schools, particularly Middlebury. They think that Middlebury is more respected because it has a more traditional approach to everything. They feel that Wes students change their majors all over the place while Midd students are more focused.
My thoughts are this: I think Wes’s non-traditionalist flexibility is its greatest strength. Just because Middlebury students don’t change their majors as much doesn’t mean that Wes students aren’t as focused as them. I think that it’s Midd’s higher amount of GenEd requirements that end up boxing students into majors earlier on, whereas Wes students are allowed to explore their options more, so they do.
I would greatly appreciate any info people have that could support or counter my parents’ reservations as listed above. I am going to visit Middlebury and give it a chance, but I still believe Wes is the best for me. However, if there are reasons to think otherwise, I’d rather know now than later on down the road.
why don’t you ask both schools for some detailed info on post grad outcomes from the past couple of years?
The two schools attract slightly different student bodies. Both provide a good education and prepare students for careers/grad school. If some students take a less traditional approach, IMO, that says more about the students than the school.
@doschicos I am working on finding out post-grad outcomes (and so far they’re roughly equal).
My areas of academic interest are Government/Political Science, Sociology, and English/Writing. I don’t know for sure what jobs I’d be interested in after graduation, but I might want to work for an interest group like the ACLU or something.
1 has some validity— but if you aren’t the type to partake, then it shouldn’t have much impact on you. I think for your career goals, points 2 & 3 are mistaken.
Wesleyan is strong in all the departments you are interested in. I even know Republicans who have attended Gov/PoliSci at Wes and got great summer internships and went straight to work after graduation in DC. Their outcomes are comparable to other colleges in their category (Williams, Amherst, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Bates, etc.) And if you don’t do drugs, drugs won’t do you. Wes is the kind of place no one cares whether you consume or not. That was true back in the day (and that was me!) and it’s still true now. There was a phrase back when I was a kid from a TV show/song album: “Free to be you and me.” That sums up Wes. Be you and you will thrive. That’s the kind of place it is.
Wesleyan is a good school academically. There are great opportunities, and I am guessing most people who go there turn out fine.
That said, I have to agree with your parents. Hopefully I don’t offend anyone here, but I am a former drug addict. Abstaining from drugs is not as easy as simply not being a drug-user. Weed, alcohol, cocaine, LSD, uppers, downers, and finally, my descent into heroin – I’ve done them all. I am from New England and actually used to drive down to Wesleyan as well as another college in CT with my junkie friends to get the good stuff. This was nearly a decade ago, so things may have changed.
The problem with any school, town, or area with a large drug scene is that it becomes normalized. Don’t get me wrong – nearly every school has a drug scene. However, if very few people do drugs/users are in the clear minority, then it’s easy to avoid. When many people around you do drugs – you may have the best of intentions to abstain, but the normalization of any drug is a dangerous thing. When the attitude is “it’s not big deal” or “everyone does it” – it’s fine if you’re a really strong person, but many of us are not. You have to figure out whether you’re the kind of person who needs to fit in or who, in a weak moment, would do something regrettable in order to be liked by your peers.
For me – a teenager who was very susceptible to peer pressure and needed to fit in, it took literally moving across the country, cutting off all my former friends, changing my name, and moving into the boring suburbs (where ANY sort of drugs are frowned upon) that got me sober (and helped me stay sober). I work a bland suburban job these days; most of my new friends and fiance don’t even drink alcohol. I needed the norm of “DRUGS ARE BAD.” Some (strong) people don’t; I did and a lot of people do. I would do some soul-searching and figure out where you fall on that spectrum.
@grahamcracker123 - Two things that may well have changed in the ten years since you last scored horse at Wesleyan are the face of the average user and the delivery system of choice. People prefer pills: https://heroin.net/help/vermont/middlebury/
Compared to Middlebury, your parents first point is basically correct. The other two points are completely false – not even sort of correct.
My son was accepted at both schools (a couple years ago) and ended up attended neither, but we went to a lot of events and tours and talked to a lot of people and I am a research junkie.
First, about the two false ideas. Wes’ reputation with industry and graduate and professional programs is great and certainly at least on par with Midd. I would challenge your parents to find any objective measure that suggests it’s worse on those counts or that the student “outcomes” are materially different on average. Anecdotally, I’ll tell you that among my colleagues in NYC (in finance, banking, investment, VC and legal), they mostly recommended Wes when I chatted about where my son should accept when he was, at the time, focused on these two schools. The truth is any of these top-tier LAC’s are effectively on similar footing when it comes to industry and continuing education reputation and success. It’s a non-issue. Some do better in certain fields than others, but overall a wash.
As for academics, there’s nothing “non-traditional” about Wes’s approach, nor materially different than Midd’s. In fact, the opposite is true – Wes is a classic liberal arts education which has a tradition going back hundreds of years. So is Midd. Some people get confused that liberal arts is somehow not traditional when in fact most of the top universities have liberal arts curriculum approaches. I went to UCLA and it called itself a liberal arts school. Liberal arts doesn’t mean politically liberal and it doesn’t mean non-STEM. And even Wes’s claim to have no core requirements is mostly not true because most people want to pursue Honors in their majors as as soon as you do the college introduces a range of requirements that are the equivalent of distribution requirements like most other schools. If you want a truly no-requirement school, Brown is your best bet.
As for the drug scene and Wes’s tolerant approach, yeah that’s most true. Wes has had a few high profile incidents that shine a spotlight on their drug issue more than their peers. All their peers have drug scenes, including Midd. But there’s no question that Wes is far more hands-off about it than Midd. Heck, Midd even banned the sale of perfectly legal caffeine drinks on campus because they felt they encouraged irresponsible behavior. In Midd’s parent orientation they talked at length about the ways they intervene and keep parents in the loop. Wes didn’t say a word. On that front, Wes has a different cultural mindset, for better or worse. They are fiercely proud of their student independence history and students sometimes defend it even when it’s at odds with their other belief systems.
Well, there’s a reason Wesleyan might not want to highlight the lengths to which it goes to monitor student life: it’s fairly intrusive and not the kind of upbeat message you want to impart during an orientation. Nevertheless, there are frequent dorm inspections by so-called Fire Safety officers who have the power to knock and enter unannounced. This holds true for all university-owned residences, including theme houses. They have the power to confiscate contraband, including illegal substances (which would include alcohol if the student is under the age of 18.)
More importantly, it is Fire Safety’s official policy to notify the Middletown Police Department in those instances where illegal drugs and/or alcohol are found in the open. True, they have not been given authority to rifle through closed drawers and closets (it’s debatable whether such seizures would stand up in court - that’s a subject for a different thread), but, the number of referrals to MPD in any given year are often enough to give Wes one of the highest Clery Act statistics for the category “drug arrests” of any of its peers. FWIW, in the nearly fifteen years that this policy has been enforced, I could not find any references to heroin. The most common drug paraphernalia confiscated are bongs, and pipes.
The students don’t like the inspections; they are the subject of frequent memes and commentary in the student-run blogs. But, they are, in fact, among the few instances in student life where Wesleyan is not afraid to appear “uncool”.
@mild_insomniac its your life, not your parents. Both schools will give you a great education and both schools will likely give you a strong push into your chosen future path after graduation. Midd is more rural and outdoorsy, Wes is more hipp and artsy. Wes has better science, Midd better languages. There are many comparisons you can make, but by and large they are very similar. The students are slightly weirder at Wes and probably more diverse with a pull more toward NYC vs. Midd’s pull to Boston. As others have said drug use is a personal choice. If you choose to get high at Midd you can, if you choose to get pills at Midd you can too. Is it easier at Wes to get drugs? maybe, maybe not… depends on your friend group. But ultimately, nobody is going to force you to experiment with drugs if you dont want to so realistically the first objection your parents have is not particularly relevant. There is drug use all over higher education, but there is even more alcohol consumption and the latter is more responsible for deaths and tragedy by a long shot than drug use. Its like airplanes, statistically they are the safest way to travel, but when a tragedy strikes we all hear about it, meanwhile the countless deaths everyday in driving accidents go mostly unreported… ditto for college drug use.
I applied to all the New England LACS and only got into Wesleyan. I’m sloppy preppy, somewhat conservative and sporty /outdoorsy. I’m also musical and love to think outside of the box as well. I’m nervous that Wes is going to be too artsy/hip? Am I going to fit in?
I had found that Middlebury piece in post #12 before and intentionally didn’t post it because I found it pretty unhelpful, fluffy, and lacking in substance and detail. It definitely gives a cherry picked representation.
Thank you so so much to all of you guys - everybody had something extraordinarily helpful to say and now I have a lot to take into consideration/to have my parents take into consideration.
@nextstep1 I think being musical and loving to think outside the box would fit into the Wes environment but, from what I know, Wes is really liberal. However, since Wes is an accepting place I feel that lots of different people from lots of different backgrounds manage to fit in.
@nextstep, maybe you should take a gap year to do something focused and interesting then reapply to the schools that seemed a better fit. Wesleyan shouldn’t be a consolation prize.
U.S. News includes early career salary data now. Wesleyan, tied for sixth with one other school, and Middlebury, fifth, place adjacent to each other in the rarefied company that comprise the nine NESCAC LACs for which this information has been published.
Their outcomes are comparable to other colleges in their category (Williams, Amherst, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Bates, etc.) And if you don’t do drugs, drugs won’t do you. Wes is the kind of place no one cares whether you consume or not. That was true back in the day (and that was me!) and it’s still true now. There was a phrase back when I was a kid from a TV show/song album: “Free to be you and me.” That sums up Wes. Be you and you will thrive. That’s the kind of place it is.