My son is in a fraternity at W&L and also didn’t have hazing (did have “dumb stuff” like clean up after parties). Because there is so much oversight at W&L, and because a wide variety of boys join frats, I feel the scene is much better than at other schools where the fraternities and parties are driven off campus with zero oversight.
That is not to say that all fraternities are the same, they are not.
I don’t think people in a protected cocoon matters.
Pi Beta Phi placed on probation until 2024 – The Ring-tum Phi (ringtumphi.net)
A bit older but
Washington and Lee University Suspends Phi Kappa Psi Over Taser Hazing (nbcnews.com)
Yes, it is wise to be careful anywhere, but Greek systems unquestionably have a very specific sexual assault problem.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/education/fraternities-rape-sexual-assault.html
Cough, cough, when I said “Not all fraternities are the same” that is what I meant.
It is assault (just technically, you asked if legally it was criminal- it is assault)
This always puzzled me too. Why don’t the national organizations crack down on the fraternities more? My older daughter wasn’t allowed to have boys anywhere in the sorority house, other than the “parlor” (she went to a southern school, where they had a house mom). They had to take turns being “risk managers” at every sorority event, checking every girl in (and out), making sure only those who were 21 had bracelets in order to drink, and making sure that any member who looked like they had too much to drink, was escorted home.
My younger daughter isn’t allowed to wear any sorority gear on football gamedays, if she’s going to be tailgating (the national doesn’t want to promote underage drinking). I’m not arguing with any of these rules but fraternities at both of their universities seem to have ZERO rules.
When I mentioned this news item to my son-in-law, who was in a fraternity and my younger daughter’s boyfriend, who pledged but dropped because it wasn’t for him, they both shrugged and said, it sounds like pledging. My husband was also in a national fraternity and said the same thing “sounds like pledging”. I was in a sorority, and while we never forced to drink, we did have to run from campus to our house (probably a mile and a half), sing at the front door and were screamed at. We also had to wear ugly striped jackets all over campus.
It’s not for everyone and I would never want a child of mine to be physically harmed or humiliated doing it, nor would I want them to be mentally damaged by the experience.
My son was in a frat. They aren’t supposed to have hazing, but I think it’s still hazing with a different name. Maybe just called “tasks” these days? He wouldn’t tell me the stuff he had to do, and I don’t want to know. He joined the frat without telling us, which is fine because I told him clearly that we would pay zero expenses associated and that we definitely don’t approve of them.
He loved his frat, but he really messed up his grades when he joined. IMO, Greek life is all about excluding others. Yes, I know there are some good things that come from Greek life. I don’t see it going away because it is too enshrined in some campus cultures.
Getting the snot kicked out of you sounds like pledging? Wow - these former greeks have high tolerance!!
I’ve heard the sorority stories of “blow” or “blow” - and honestly, it’s not believable - I hope.
But I’ve read plenty of cocaine stories from various schools unfortunately - and both my daughter and her bf (different school) have mentioned it’s prevalent.
My son would be ambivalent…wouldn’t know it if he saw it.
When I was in school (30 years ago), I saw it a few times - but never often. Apparently it’s out there more today.
Even with all the education out there…sad.
There seem to be Sigma Chi chapters all over the place that have had issues like this. At least from what I can remember over the past few years, invariably, it’s a Sigma Chi chapter that’s under probation for nonsense like this. Heck, even in the olden days of the stone age when I was in college, the Sigma Chi frat at my college was widely known as the party frat where all the wildest stuff happened.
I must admit…I’m not into Greek life. I don’t understand the appeal of it. With sororities, at least from an outsider’s point of view, it seems to be full of a lot of mean girl stuff, focusing on superficial things, and kind of represents everything that’s the opposite of my own personal values. And I’m totally not into the whole “bro culture” thing that’s so common in fraternities.
Are there good ones out there? Of course. I’m glad and relieved that my kids aren’t enamored into that whole scene.
I have to say, I don’t think my daughters experienced any mean girl issues in sororities, they both have a lot of good friends in a bunch of different ones, had roommates in a bunch of different ones. However my niece was pledging a business fraternity and her roommate got her black balled, she was devastated. I don’t think it’s fair to paint it with such a broad brush.
Mine didn’t report any mean girl issues either. That can and does happen in a variety of environments and certainly isn’t limited to sororities.
I mentioned the business fraternity to my younger daughter and she said she wouldn’t go near it with a 10-foot pole after hearing how mean and cut-throat it is.
My daughter refused as well, and she’s a joiner who is always busy, takes 18 credits a semester, sorority officer, spends a lot of time bugging her advisors, I was so surprised she said no.
At public colleges, which host most Greek chapters, students have a First Amendment right to free association. The colleges can’t ban Greek groups or punish students for joining. Private schools can do what they want, but don’t look for public schools to abolish Greek life unless there’s a radical change in the law.
Sigma Chi has 244 chapters in the US and Canada. That’s a really broad brush with which to paint the entire organization.
Yes, and even in schools where frats are “banned” many sports teams act just like frats with all the requisite hazing, drinking, and respect for women.
I didn’t say that all of Sigma Chi’s 244 chapters were problematic.
Yes, and the banned chapters often continue to operate independently, with financial support from alumni, and rush prospective students outside of the college-sanctioned rush program.
There’s going to be a huge bias toward the larger fraternities if you’re just tracking who’s in the news for misbehavior most often. Sigma Chi and Kappa Sigma are both among the largest Greek-letter groups. It doesn’t tell you they’re any more dangerous than a tiny group like Kappa Delta Phi.