Hazing- what is it

Parent Cafe
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<p><a href=“http://www.stophazing.org/[/url]”>http://www.stophazing.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>this website is really good</p>

<p>There are several threads going on hazing, this is for parents and college students to see and be aware of and not fall into the trap…it is very easy to jusitfy hazing behaviors as tradition, but often it is cruel, and what you may think is okay, is actually hazing and is much more insidious:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.stophazing.org/definition.html[/url]”>http://www.stophazing.org/definition.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>n the Alfred/NCAA survey of college athletes, hazing was defined as:</p>

<p>“any activity expected of someone joining a group that
humiliates, degrades, abuses or endangers, regardless of the person’s willingness to participate. This does not include activities such as rookies carrying the balls, team parties with community games, or going out with your teammates, unless an atmosphere of humiliation, degradation, abuse or danger arises.”</p>

<p>“Hazing is an activity that a high-status member orders other members to engage in or suggests that they engage in that in some way humbles a newcomer who lacks the power to resist, because he or she want to gain admission to a group. Hazing can be noncriminal, but it is nearly always against the rules of an institution, team, or Greek group. It can be criminal, which means that a state statute has been violated. This usually occurs when a pledging-related activity results in gross physical injury or death” (from Hank Nuwer’s book Wrongs of Passage , 1999, p. xxv).</p>

<p>Hazing is defined by the FIPG (Fraternal Information Programming Group) as:</p>

<p>“Any action taken or situation created, intentionally, whether on or off fraternity premises, to produce mental or physical discomfort, embarrassment, harassment, or ridicule. Such activities may include but are not limited to the following: use of alcohol; paddling in any form; creation of excessive fatigue; physical and psychological shocks; quests, treasure hunts, scavenger hunts, road trips or any other such activities carried on outside or inside of the confines of the chapter house; wearing of public apparel which is conspicuous and not normally in good taste; engaging in public stunts and buffoonery; morally degrading or humiliating games and activities; and any other activities which are not consistent with fraternal law, ritual or policy or the regulations and policies of the educational institution.”</p>

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<p>I pledged a sorority that didn’t have any physical abuse. We “only” had to run errands, perform for members, answer to pledge names, attend parties & socialize, and other similar things. There was some psychological conditioning as well, as we were frequently scolded for not running the errands fast enough, not performing well enough, not being sufficiently supportive of the other pledges, the whole “evil stepsister/stepmother” routine. All of this intensified during exam week & interfered with my ability to concentrate and study, so I quit and immediately felt MUCH better (not realizing how much it had been affecting me). All in all, I have a very strong anti-hazing bias. </p>

<p>(Footnote: The sorority went on academic probation shortly after I quit & was disbanded thereafter because the members grades went down the tank. 5 of my 6 sibs pledged for frats/sororities, so obviously they found something rewarding in them that I missed.)</p>

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<p>thats a pretty broad brush they are trying to paint with
road trips/scavenger hunts/public stunts/apparel which is not in "good taste
all can be defined as hazing?</p>

<p>uh ok</p>

<p>My daughters high school has hazing
doesn’t bother me
She generally doesn’t like to be singled out in any way- & while she didn’t want the attention of having an upper classman draw on her- I did find it interesting, that she & a friend chose to draw on herself
( although it also might have been a preemptive strike)</p>

<p>I don’t consider that harmful, and although I see that even if students want to participate it is “hazing”, I even don’t consider being thrown into the lake clothed ( if they want to participate) harmful.
I think it sounds like fun
( her high school is also as far as I have heard- does not inflict psychological damage- as I have heard other schools have done- as when cheerleaders were apparently made to stand blindfolded in their underwear, while being viewed by the football team- but this was also hearsay-- students are quite upfront about that they do not target anyone who does not want to particpate, and I see it as a way to bring freshman into the group- it has the most school spirit of any school in Seattle and this is a positive thing- they feel good about being part of the school and it isn’t just a sports thing- it extends to all the groups that are part of Garfield- parents are also on the premises and ready to intervene if things look like they are going to get out of hand )</p>

<p>My D college didn’t throw people into the canyon-, but they did play capture the flag, go trick or treating, paint themselves blue and run through campus at Renn Fayre, go on scavenger hunts, and sleep in the library instead of going back to their room during finals.</p>

<p>Anyone of those things apparently count as hazing.
( the only thing she really complained about was the ethos that you had to kill yourself to prove you were worthy of going to Reed- she isn’t a competitive type & while she loved Reed- I think she would have not minded a little less pressure)</p>

<p>Oh and the eating of Madagascar hissing cockroaches ( and drinking alcohol before hand)
I wonder what the FIPG would say if they found out that profs participated?</p>

<p>I think the danger of painting everything that a group, including a whole campus does, in the spirit of fun and in marking themselves as a “group”, can backfire, much as the warnings ala"Reefer Madness" did for drugs, and " just say no" did for sex.</p>

<p>I think that it is outdated that the way they schedule interns and residents to work hospital hours, just because that is the way it always has been done, I think some of the physical challenges that sports teams and military schools do, before they are adaquately informed just how physical some students can be, are abusive and have resulted in deaths which might have been prevented.
I realize that some of us have been raised or live in environments that others might consider abusive, and so it may be difficult to learn that not everyone lives that way.
Look at the women who are raised in families with one man"marrying" sisters and daughters. Look at some of the rituals that other societies might consider an important part of their culture like clitorectmies. ::shudder:;
( with a broken piece of glass no less)</p>

<p>But I think group identity can be very important.
Would the Marines be so loyal & effective a group if they just sat around knitting?</p>

<p>I think that we will always have “hazing” as some would define it, because we like to be challenged, and some of us like that challenge to come from outside.</p>

<p>I like to go to the gym in the evening for example, because then I compete with the 20 & 30 year olds, rather than earlier in the day with the 50 & 60 year olds.</p>

<p>I have never been in a situation where I was forced to drink either water or alcohol ( except when I was getting an ultrasound in the olden days- that is the closest I have ever come:eek:) & I haven’t heard of my daughters being in that posistion either.</p>

<p>I think something that is harmful should be brought to light- but I don’t think being “forced” to dress silly, to carry an upperclassmans dinner, or encouraged to push your self harder ( as on a sports team), when physically capable is permanently harmful.
BUt I also realize that it could be a slippery slope in some instances- and where the group cant limit themselves- then an outside group has to step in</p>

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<p>This reminded me. Last year my son had an old high school friend call and ask if son could show him where some building was on campus. This boy was from a coastal area school in NC. It turned out that a car load of pledges from this school was having to do a scavenger hunt and bring back certain items from every school in NC—that’s alot of driving to cover the state. These boys missed several days of classes in order to fulfill their pledge assignment. Of course I think they were idiots for doing it, but it shows how badly these kids want to be part of the group.</p>

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<p>MKM
I think when things interfere with why they are there- their academics- that can be harmful
Ds school had a scavenger hunt that was an evening event- it was part of orientation week I think-although when someone actually got a golf cart from the neighboring golf course- it was canceled because it wasn’t clear if it was borrowed or stolen. </p>

<p>Around here- we even have adult teams who rent limos and do a scavenger hunt around the city- they pay for the privledge.
Uchicago also has a well known scavenger hunt & MIT is famous for its puzzles or “hacks”
<a href=“http://hacks.mit.edu/[/url]”>http://hacks.mit.edu/&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://scavhunt1.uchicago.edu/[/url]”>http://scavhunt1.uchicago.edu/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>read the state laws, they are also with a broad brush, and its is because of the abuse of the 'system"</p>

<p>there is a difference between creating a group identity through mutual respect, hard work, etc, and doing through stealing things, missing class, humiliation, etc</p>

<p>and apparently most states feel the same way</p>

<p>the slippery slope is when you degrade another person for your own enjoyment - and it is very easy to go from jokingly asking someone to service you and being a bully</p>

<p>and my guess is that many many many have crossed that line</p>

<p>and why does participation have to involve physically throwing people around?</p>

<p>I just don’t understand the need to potentially hurt others physically in the name of bonding and school spirit</p>

<p>and how many kids actually say, no, don’t want to…</p>

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<p>what is the point of writing all over people…explain to me the purpose…what it accomplishes…maybe I am dense, but if that is a big part of creating school spirit, and you have to draw on people that maynot want it, that says the school needs to see what is missing elsewhere</p>

<p>and the difference between what sports team and military do in regards to training is that it benefits the body, and the team work </p>

<p>hazing purpose is to embarrass, humilate and to bully, and the create school spirit is just hogwash</p>

<p>if bonding with freshman is done through tossing them (and the willing part - not so sure about that - many kids don’t want to look not part of the group so will go along with something) in a lake, how odd is that</p>

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<p>Ok if you say that the point of hazing is to humilate- that is different than what I have observed.</p>

<p>Kids who have been chosen by upperclassmen to be identified as part of the group aren’t humilated- on the contrary, it seems to me, that it is a ritualized way to reach out to new students and bring them in.</p>

<p>Writing “08” on the face or arm of someone who is “010” would only be humilating to someone who is excessively sensitive. If they don’t want to particpate- then they let it be known before hand- it isn’t just done to random people, its people you know, like older sisters-If you really don’t want to get thrown into the lake- then students know not to hang around school after it gets out on purple and white day, and certainly don’t go down the lake and watch.</p>

<p>I would also disagree about sports teams and military- both have been known to have physical rituals that are meant to “break down” in order to reform the individual to the group.
Some are just demeaning, ( like cleaning toilets with your own toothbrush) but some have been physically harmful.
BUt I think in terms of the military - and I speak as a civilian- the ritual is important, because you need to be bonded with the group & know that you can count on them no matter what.</p>

<p>I don’t disagree that some schools have rituals that are harmful-
Ihavent witnessed them-
I haven’t seen my daughter now that she is a junior intend to harm anyone- and like I said to the contrary, its a sign of acceptance not of scorn.</p>

<p>When a much admired member of her rec league soccer team, started at her school last year, my D was excited about “froshing” her, because it brought her into the group and was also “positive” attention.
It isn’t meant to demean or harm students.</p>

<p>Some jobs also have rituals that are meant to test you.
Working on jobsites as a young woman in the 70s, I was exposed to things that were apparently meant to test my mettle.
But that is how I looked at it. They didn’t want to harm me, but they wanted to see if I would fit in. I think that because I “passed” the test, I was accepted faster, than if there weren’t artifical barriers to climb over.</p>

<p>Outside of situations that are flat out dangerous- or harmful, I don’t have a lot of patience for people who freak out over something that isn’t * PC 100% of the time*</p>

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<p>but what is the POINT, and if you have seniors picking and choosing freshman to be part of the “group” isn’t that a way of excluding others</p>

<p>and the school encourages hazing…nice</p>

<p>i just don’t get it and find it stupid</p>

<p>as well, from what you say, not all kids are targeted for acceptance…interesting</p>

<p>and I stand by what I say, if you have yo physically do something to others in order to create school spirit, your school is lacking</p>

<p>my Ds school has amazing spirit, kids are welcomed, bonding goes on, but there is not need to physcially mark others…and its not PC, its just thinking that somethings are just dumb</p>

<p>how does our school welcome freshman- you have a senior buddy, who bring you candy, puts notes in your locker, checks in on you</p>

<p>for spirit days- we have different days- we have rallies, we have all kinds of ways to foster spirit, but none involve phyiscally “accosting” others</p>

<p>if that is what you have to do to get “school spirit” sorry I find it unnessary and potentially harmful, but maybe I have higher standards and expect that spirit can be gotten other ways</p>

<p>the military and sports are a different animal- I think we all know that- and hazing isn’t accepted in the military…</p>

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<p>Students suspended for high school hazing
Last Updated: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 | 9:34 AM AT
CBC News
Two Halifax-area high school students have been suspended for paddling younger students in what many call an annual hazing ritual.</p>

<p>Last Friday at lunch hour, the two senior students escorted four Grade 9 students into a wooded area near Lockview High School in Fall River, north of Halifax.</p>

<p>Principal Ward Duncan and a teacher in the area saw “something was amiss.”</p>

<p>“Since then we’ve been able to determine the names of the two students who were ultimately responsible,” Duncan said.</p>

<p>Duncan, who considers paddling to be an assault, says the two students have been banned from school for five days, the maximum suspension for schools.</p>

<p>The RCMP were called in to investigate, but do not anticipate laying any charges.</p>

<p>Some students at the school say the paddling tradition isn’t meant to hurt anyone.</p>

<p>Alisha MacDougall, a junior student at Lockview, says it’s an initiation for the incoming students.</p>

<p>“They just do it to the Grade 9s,” she said.</p>

<p>“It sounds really violent and stuff,” added Courtney Lively, another junior student. "The people that get it, like, some people ask for it.</p>

<p>"They want to get it over with</p>

<p>(that last line- does that sound “willing”- don’t think so)</p>