Right, UMass and UMaine as well - need to visit one of them still to validate that “jeez, this is really much bigger than I really want”. She’s visited a couple in the 2K-4K and likes the size so just a parents intuition that a 10-15K student school is going to be outside her comfort zone.
2 Likes
I live in Metrowest and D22 is an early childhood education major at one of the MA state schools you are looking at if you want specific pros and cons. Feel free to message me.
5 Likes
I was going to mention Lesley in Cambridge, which is known for psychology, counseling and education. Endicott is across the street from the ocean in Beverly and is another good possibility. For public, Salem State is relatively affordable. One school I really like is Clark U. in Worcester and I believe they run their own school where students get experience, but check out whether that is the case.
4 Likes
Not much to add here but in Illinois where I live from Private schools to public the majority of the teacher’s I have talked to (scientific study of 1 lol), all went to one college known for their teachers certificate programs and licensure. It’s not the sexy named school but if you want to become a teacher it seems this is where you go to even when the flagships have programs. It’s affordable to boot.
So I assume most states have something similar that leads to job offers she might want.
Good luck to her… And you…
2 Likes
It’s generally the same here in MA. Early Childhood Education is prevalent in the non-flagship state schools. Pretty good programs that take care of the student teaching placement - which can often lead to job placement. Someone else mentioned this to me and it’s spot on to remember this as a big consideration - if she has no intention of living in/near the area she goes to school then it could be a loss of opportunity.
4 Likes
Not only is Cortland excellent for education, it also has an automatic discount for out of state students. So does SUNY Oneonta, which also has strong education majors. SUNY Geneseo will also discount for out of state students but the amount varies depending on gpa although your daughter should qualify for a good discount there.
University of Maine has a “tuition match” program which will only charge you your instate cost. As flagship universities go, U Maine is small (8000).
Rhode Island College in Providence has a modest cost of attendance.
Our local school district here in Connecticut loves to hire graduates of Eastern Connecticut State University, enrollment: 4000. It is Connecticut’s public liberal arts college and out of state costs are under $40,000. Keene State in New Hampshire is also very good for early childhood and they have a number of ways to reduce cost.
9 Likes
And ECSU gives the NE Tuition Break discount (150% of in state tuition I believe)
1 Like
Any sense for why the SUNY’s have such a low OOS attendance? Just don’t have insight if there are restrictions on them for OOS student population %'s.
Not very well known outside NYS, far from NYC which most OOS students want, no big D1 football/basketball…
2 Likes
One school I don’t think I’ve seen mentioned here is Westfield State. It’s pretty strong in teaching licensure programs across the board and has an ECE program. If your daughter wants to remain in Massachusetts after college, it simplifies things to go to an in-state licensure program, both because doing so smooths the path to certification and because it could potentially help her establish professional networks that could be useful down the line.
3 Likes
I was even talking about SUNY Albany - Niche shows it with a 4% OOS student population.
SUNY Bing (most selective) and Stony Brook (Science&CS) are more likely to attract OoS applicants than Albany (Business, Economics, Political Science), Buffalo (Engineering &CS), or Geneseo (Honors/Liberal Arts) - to a lesser extent for Buffalo because they’re excellent for Engineering, not too difficult to get into, and offer scholarships, which is an uncommon combination in the Northeast. I would imagine ESF would also attract some OOS applicants interested in its academic offerings.
In addition, each college regardless of ranking has one or two programs of distinction - each of them has something they’re really good at, a sort of flagship for that particular subject.
So, anyone who’s interested in solid academics without much in terms of bells and whistles (spectator sports are there but low-key compared to many flagships, basically no/few “resort camp” amenities…) will find something for them in the SUNY system.
However many OOS applicants tend to come from well-to-do families who expect a certain level of… comfort (not sure it’s the right term) and some may be lured by sports, so it takes a healthy perspective on what college is for to choose a SUNY imho.
@Lindagaf what do you think?
3 Likes
Niche is not accounting for international students, who represent another 3-4%.
For whatever reason the SUNY campuses haven’t developed the reputation to attract out of state students. Binghamton has the highest profile and they have about 9% out of state and another 9% international students.
None of them are located in a great college town either. Burlington, VT is always in the top 10 for great college towns. UVM benefits from that. Amherst/Northamoton, MA is known as a great college town. UMass benefits.
Frankly I think that sports has something to do with it, as crazy as that sounds. No state except the really tiny ones eschews big time college sports the way that NY does. People associate a lively campus life with football and basketball games, you’re not going to fund big time sports on a SUNY campus. Those events give the other schools a high profile. UConn began attracting a ton of out of state students when it started winning national championships in women’s and men’s basketball.
Another factor is that NY did not have a state university system until the 1950s. When everyone else was building big campuses after the Civil War with federal land grant money for colleges, NY gave their land grant money to Cornell. So there really is no flagship campus in NY that is rich in history with historic old gothic buildings. 1960s institutional architecture doesn’t really evok a sense of history and tradition.
To be honest, NY remained wedded to the idea of private colleges meeting the need for higher education for way too long. Much of the state’s population was in NYC and The City developed its own public colleges. CCNY existed for more than a century before the state decided to develop its own research universities. To some extent, New England did the same thing. The state flagship universities were regarded as “cow colleges” while the Ives were regarded as the places where real learning and research took place. Their emergence as places where serious research takes place is a recent phenomenon.
7 Likes
My D just committed to Susquehanna University in Pennsylvania. She was admitted 3 days after applying with a scholarship bringing the COA to $35,000/yr. Her stats are similar to your D’s. She did audition for music and was awarded more money bringing costs down to $31k. It’s a smaller residential school of about 2200 students mostly pulling from PA, NY, NJ and MD. Very robust study abroad program if that’s an interest for your daughter.
6 Likes
Congratulations 
and a great idea! Susquehanna is a “hidden gem” - they do well in a push/nurture environment, especially for students who aren’t super self confident; everyone is very friendly, caring, down to earth, students, faculty, even administration + not of interest here but combination of Business and Liberal Arts.
5 Likes
I will be the voice of dissent about attending college in the state in which one wants to teach. Looking at these two sites from the Massachusetts Dept. of Ed (1 & 2), it appears that so long as your D completes a teacher prep program that is accredited in its state, then MA will honor it for the initial 5-year license. I am someone who went to college in a different state and earned the licensure credential there and then moved to a different state and was able to my license with little difficulty. I believe that MA used to be a state where that was problematic, but according to the sources I linked above, that seems to have changed in 2014. Thus, I don’t think it’s a must to stay within state boundaries to find the best fit school for your D.
I know that your D is interested in living away from home and not attending a community college. I am interpreting that to mean that she is interested in a school with greater residential life and not a commuter school, so please correct me if I’m wrong. The campuses that you mentioned as being dead on weekends have 77%, 71%, and 54% of first year students living on-campus. Thus, I focused on schools where the percentage of first-year students is preferably much higher than that. I will tag @MYOS1634 who may be able to provide additional insight on what life is like at some of the Pennsylvania schools I mention, as local information and context can provide much more insight than just statistics.
I did some preliminary research which I’ll share in a subsequent post (please note the accuracy caveats, particularly about the undergrad population), and added on some schools in NJ and eastern Pennsylvania that were not as far as Buffalo from the MetroWest Economic Research Center. These are some of the schools which I think she may want to investigate more closely, some of which have been mentioned by others upthread.
-
Millersville (PA ): 72, primarily a residential campus, 75% of first year students live on-campus, about 5600 undergrads
-
Kutztown (PA ): 68, primarily a residential campus, 85% of first year students live on-campus, about 6400 undergrads
-
Shippensburg (PA ): 54, primarily a residential campus, 86% of first year students live on-campus, about 5100 undergrads
-
U. of Scranton (PA ): 25, primarily a residential campus, 82% of first year students live on-campus, about 3600 undergrads
-
Susquehanna (PA ): 23, primarily a residential campus, 94% of first year students live on-campus, about 2100 undergrads
-
Widener (PA ): 22, primarily a residential campus, 87% of first year students live on-campus, about 2800 undergrads
-
DeSales (PA ): 21, primarily a residential campus, 76% of first year students live on-campus, about 2100 undergrads.
-
The College of New Jersey: 20, primarily a residential campus, 86% of first year students live on-campus, about 5500 undergrads (really about 7100 undergrads per College Navigator).
-
Salve Regina (RI): 15, primarily a residential campus, 97% of first year students live on-campus, about 2100 undergrads
-
Eastern Connecticut State: 15, primarily a residential campus, 87% of first year students live on-campus, about 3500 undergrads
-
Plymouth State (NH): 10, primarily a residential campus, 93% of first year students live on-campus, about 3300 undergrads
-
Keene State (NH): 10, primarily a residential campus, 94% of first year students live on-campus, about 2700 undergrads
-
Endicott (MA): 8, primarily a residential campus, 97% of first year students live on-campus, about 3400 undergrads
-
U. of Hartford (CT): 6, primarily a residential college, 83% of first year students live on-campus, about 4k undergrads
-
SUNY New Paltz: 6, primarily a residential college, 91% of first year students living on-campus, about 6500 undergrads
-
SUNY Cortland: 5, classified as a residential college, percentage of first year students living on-campus not available, about 5900 undergrads
-
Stonehill (MA): 4, primarily a residential campus, 92% of first year students live on-campus, about 2500 undergrads
-
SUNY Geneseo: Offers a major in early childhood ed, but I suspect that because students become certified in both early childhood and elementary ed, that the IPEDS data is only showing hem as elementary ed. About 3900 undergrads, primarily a residential college with 97% of first-year students living on-campus.
Obviously, there are a couple of schools that went over 5k, and if your D decides that she’s willing to go a little smaller than 2k, there are some other schools that could definitely be worth a closer look as well.
2 Likes
My suggestions were based upon the research included below. I used this source to see which schools were producing the most students earning a degree in early childhood education in 2022 (the first number behind the colon). I then cross-referenced it with the College Board’s college descriptions to see whether a school was classified as commuter or residential along with the percentage of first year students living on-campus. I also used this source to get the undergraduate enrollment, though I did note an error on TCNJ’s enrollment, so please verify any data with the colleges and College Navigator (the feds’ website populated with IPEDS data). I suspect that many of the undergrad populations have been undercounted on the College Board’s site.
NEW ENGLAND SCHOOLS
-
Salem State (MA): 47, primarily a commuter campus, 54% of first year students live on-campus, about 4300 undergrads
-
Rhode Island College: 47, primarily a commuter campus, 37% of first year students live on-campus, about 5100 undergrads
-
Bridgewater State (MA): 47, primarily a commuter campus, 71% of first year students live on-campus, about 7900 undergrads
-
Southern Connecticut State: 45, primarily a commuter campus, 60% of first year students live on-campus, about 6200 undergrads
-
Lesley (MA): 34, primarily a residential campus, 78% of first year students live on-campus, about 1300 undergrads
-
Worcester State (MA): 29, primarily a commuter campus, 54% of first year students live on-campus, about 4k undergrads
-
Cambridge College (MA): 21, primarily a commuter campus, first years on-campus unavailable, about 800 undergrads
-
Vermont State: 21 (in 2023 per College Navigator), primarily a residential campus, 60% of first year students live on-campus, about 4100 undergrads
-
Framingham State (MA): 19, primarily a residential campus, 77% of first year students live on-campus, about 2600 undergrads
-
U. of Maine at Farmington: 18, primarily a residential campus, 91% of first year students live on-campus, about 1100 undergrads (actually about 1600)
-
Salve Regina (RI): 15, primarily a residential campus, 97% of first year students live on-campus, about 2100 undergrads
-
Eastern Connecticut State: 15, primarily a residential campus, 87% of first year students live on-campus, about 3500 undergrads
-
Fitchburg State (MA): 13, primarily a residential campus, 63% of first year students live on-campus, about 2800 undergrads
-
Mitchell (CT): 12, primarily a residential campus, 72% of first year students live on-campus, about 500 undergrads
-
Gordon (MA): 11, primarily a residential campus, 93% of first year students live on-campus, about 1300 undergrads. I believe this school has stronger religious components less other religiously affiliated colleges.
-
Plymouth State (NH): 10, primarily a residential campus, 93% of first year students live on-campus, about 3300 undergrads
-
Keene State (NH): 10, primarily a residential campus, 94% of first year students live on-campus, about 2700 undergrads
-
Fisher (MA): 10, primarily a residential campus, 58% of first year students live on-campus, about 1100 undergrads
-
Central Connecticut State: 10, primarily a commuter campus, 60% of first year students live on-campus, about 7700 undergrads
-
Bay Path (MA): 9, primarily a residential campus, 71% of first year students live on-campus, about 1200 undergrads
-
Endicott (MA): 8, primarily a residential campus, 97% of first year students live on-campus, about 3400 undergrads
-
Dean (MA): 7, primarily a residential college, 91% of first year students live on-campus, about 1100 undergrads
-
U. of Hartford (CT): 6, primarily a residential college, 83% of first year students live on-campus, about 4k undergrads
-
Curry (MA): 6, primarily a residential college, 79% of first year students live on-campus, about 1800 undergrads
-
Lasell (MA): 5, primarily a residential campus, 88% of first year students live on-campus, about 1200 undergrads
-
Wheaton (MA): 4, primarily a residential campus, I think the % of first year students listed as living on-campus is wrong (I doubt it’s 0%); about 1700 undergrads
-
Thomas (ME): 4, primarily a residential campus, 80% of first year students live on-campus, about 700 undergrads
-
Stonehill (MA): 4, primarily a residential campus, 92% of first year students live on-campus, about 2500 undergrads
-
Rivier (NH): 4, primarily a commuter campus, 50% of first year students live on-campus, about 1300 undergrads
MID-ATLANTIC SCHOOLS
-
Millersville (PA ): 72, primarily a residential campus, 75% of first year students live on-campus, about 5600 undergrads
-
Kutztown (PA ): 68, primarily a residential campus, 85% of first year students live on-campus, about 6400 undergrads
-
Shippensburg (PA ): 54, primarily a residential campus, 86% of first year students live on-campus, about 5100 undergrads
-
Eastern (PA ): 47, primarily a residential campus, 73% of first year students live on-campus, about 2k undergrads, may have a stronger religious component than other religiously affiliated schools.
-
East Stroudsburg(PA ): 47, primarily a residential campus, 43% of first year students live on-campus, about 4900 undergrads -
York (PA ): 31, primarily a residential campus, 68% of first year students live on-campus, about 3200 undergrads
-
Lebanon Valley (PA ): 27, primarily a residential campus, 79% of first year students live on-campus, about 1700 undergrads
-
Chestnut Hill (PA ): 26, primarily a residential campus, 77% of first year students live on-campus, about 900 undergrads
-
U. of Scranton (PA ): 25, primarily a residential campus, 82% of first year students live on-campus, about 3600 undergrads
-
Susquehanna (PA ): 23, primarily a residential campus, 94% of first year students live on-campus, about 2100 undergrads
-
Widener (PA ): 22, primarily a residential campus, 87% of first year students live on-campus, about 2800 undergrads
-
Misericordia (PA ): 21, primarily a residential campus, 86% of first year students live on-campus, about 1700 undergrads
-
Eliabethtown (PA ): 21, primarily a residential campus, 90% of first year students live on-campus, about 1800 undergrads. I’ve read a couple different reports of people really liking the school when they visited.
-
DeSales (PA ): 21, primarily a residential campus, 76% of first year students live on-campus, about 2100 undergrads.
-
The College of New Jersey: 20, primarily a residential campus, 86% of first year students live on-campus, about 5500 undergrads (really about 7100 undergrads per College Navigator).
-
SUNY Buffalo State: 17, primarily a commuter campus, 66% of first year students living on-campus, about 5600 undergrads, not to be confused with U. at Buffalo.
-
SUNY New Paltz: 6, primarily a residential college, 91% of first year students living on-campus, about 6500 undergrads
-
SUNY Cortland: 5, classified as a residential college, percentage of first year students living on-campus not available, about 5900 undergrads)
-
SUNY Geneseo: Offers a major in early childhood ed, but I suspect that because students become certified in both early childhood and elementary ed, that the IPEDS data is only showing hem as elementary ed. About 3900 undergrads, primarily a residential college with 97% of first-year students living on-campus.
3 Likes
Thank you for your very well thought out and researched response. Lots to unpack there!!!
On the idea of the “suitcase schools”. My sense is that any school that pulls a predominant amount of its population from the immediately surrounding geographic area is prone to be “dead on weekends” simply because many kids will go home. I do think the effect is overstated though - one of those things where if 30% of the resident students leave the campus might feel “more quiet” but 70% of the students are still there.
Completely agree with you on teacher licensure. Going OOS I do not see as a big hindrance to teaching in MA (if that’s the goal - which is still an open ?). I do think there is advantage to going to school where, ultimately, you might end up since the student teaching can often be leveraged into the first job out of college.
3 Likes
As a retired educator, I can verify that @AustenNut is correct on this point. The states in the Northeast have reciprocity agreements whereby they will honor each other’s certifications. There may be a requirement to add an extra course, such as state history, here or there but that is not normally a problem.
4 Likes
Marist?
1 Like